Drider
A drider was a powerful drow priest of Lolth whose devotion was satisfactorily tested by Lolth and who was gifted with a semblance of her god’s spider form. Most, although not all, matron mothers are driders. Drow believe that a drow house that does not have a drider for a matron mother is experiencing the displeasure and punishment of Lolth. Such houses face stigma and some prejudice from the greater drow community. A drow house with two or more driders is regarded as blessed by Lolth. As the favored of Lolth, all driders, whether matron mother or not, enjoy considerable power and authority in drow society. Since all drow priests are female, a male drider is a rare and socially complicated circumstance for drow society. Driders often dispense with weapons, instead relying upon their two blade-like front claws and their bite for melee.
Drider is a template you can apply to any drow priest and, rarely, other drow who have dedicated their lives to the service of Lolth. If you are modifying a nonplayer character, this template works best with the cleric.
Prerequisite: Level 11, Drow Priest or drow worshiper of Lolth
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Drider
Elite Skirmisher
Large fey humanoid (spider)
XP Elite
Defenses +2 AC; +4 Fortitude, +2 Reflex
Resist 5 + 1/2 level poison
Saving Throws +2
Speed 8, climb 8 (spider climb)
Size Large
Action Point 1
Hit Points +8 per level + Constitution score
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POWERS
M-B Claw (standard; at-will) Poison
Level +4 vs. AC; 1d8 + 7 damage plus 1d8 poison damage.
M Double Attack (standard; at-will) Poison
The drider makes two claw attacks.
M Quick Bite (minor 1/round; at-will) Poison
Requires combat advantage; Level +2 vs. Fortitude; 1d4 damage, and ongoing Constitution modifier + 1/2 level poison damage (save ends).
R Web Net (minor 1/round; at-will)
Ranged 10; Level +2 vs. Reflex; the target is restrained and gains vulnerable 5 poison (save ends both).
Spider Link (minor; at-will) Healing
The drider can transfer up to its healing surge value of points of damage she has taken to a spider or a drow within 5 squares of her. She cannot transfer more hit points than the creature has remaining. If applicable, REPLACES Drow Priest Spider Link.
Web Walker
A drider ignores the effects of spider webs and spider swarms.
ii) given its current powers, which monster role do you think this drider template best fits into--soldier, skirmisher, controller, brute or lurker?
iii) do you think that the vulnerable 5 poison of web net should be upped to vulnerable 10 poison?
1) I don't think your current claw damage is that different from RAW paragon tier monsters basic attack, though I think RAW is a bit too low in general.
3) I think you should be careful about that vulnerable 5 poison. Your drider can spend a minor action to make the target vulnerable to poison and then immediately make a standard action double attack to take advantage of it before the target even has a chance to save. Vulnerable 10, especially with multiple driders, would hurt really fast.
BTW, didn't becoming a drider used to be a punishment in previous editions? That seems a pretty big thematic change.
Why did 4th ed change the origin of drider I wonder
4th ed
In drow society, the strongest and bravest can take the Test of Lolth. Those who succeed become driders, members of a privileged caste. Those who fail usually die.
MM1 3.5
Driders are created by the drow’s dark goddess, Lolth. When a dark elf of above average ability reaches 6th level, the goddess may put him or her through a special test. Those who fail the test become driders. Because they have failed their goddess’s test, driders are outcasts from their own communities. Drow and driders hate one another passionately.
Drow of underdark
In most instances, failing a Test of Lolth results in death. A significant minority of the time, However, the failed subject is instead transformed into a drider
Guess it makes sence to be a blessing, but drow comcider themselves superior to all other races. anyhows just noticed that they changed it
Why did 4th ed change the origin of drider I wonder
here is a post i made on the wizards d&d forums back in 3e:
"driders are now favored by lolth, not unfavored (don't ask. she IS chaotic.).
at first, the drow have a hard time adjusting to this. they have always held disdain for the driders. now, lolth has deemed that driders are favored because to be more "spider" is to be better. the pre-existing driders have returned to their houses, to be treated--begrudgingly--with honor and respect, even above priestesses. the pre-existing spiders continue to bear much resentment towards the drow. they repeatedly exploit their newfound power and authority to exact various incidences of revenge upon their family members and other drow. however, they know that an excess of this behavior will be disfavored by lolth. now, a new drider is created only as a reward by lolth to an exceptional priestess, who, upon becoming a drider, assumes the role of matron mother of her house. not all houses are blessed with a drider matron mother. it is a cause for political strife and manipulation among the houses. now, new driders are almost exclusively female. the rare creation of a new male drider is a source of confusion and consternation amoung the drow society ("what does lolth mean by this? a male favored?"). driders have spider reproductive organs and have spider offspring (note to self - create a large spider that has an intelligence score of 10 and, perhaps, special abilities). any remnant sexual urges that drider may still feel towards drow are satiated only through violence. this is an aspect of lolth's blessing that is cruel both to the drider (sexual frustration and adjusting to having sex with spiders) and to the drider's "sexual" victim (obviously)."
i am happy to see wotc implement this change from disfavored to favored.
I haven't played around with making templates yet, but I can at least give you a comment.
1) I don't think your current claw damage is that different from RAW paragon tier monsters basic attack, though I think RAW is a bit too low in general.
3) I think you should be careful about that vulnerable 5 poison. Your drider can spend a minor action to make the target vulnerable to poison and then immediately make a standard action double attack to take advantage of it before the target even has a chance to save. Vulnerable 10, especially with multiple driders, would hurt really fast.
BTW, didn't becoming a drider used to be a punishment in previous editions? That seems a pretty big thematic change.
you make a good point about vulnerable 10 with the standard action double attack. perhaps, it would be best to keep it at vulnerable 5.
thanks.
also, touching on a much bigger change involving lolth, yochlols are not demons, and they are evil, not chaotic evil, just as i envision lolth (but that topic deserves its own thread).
Still think it more effective to make driders using the monster builder and just alter the base drider to fit the need but thats just me, 4th ed lends better for char templates via feats then it does monster templates, monster templates simply become a new monster.
why not just use the drider as writen in the monster builder?
i think that driders should be elite monsters. also, i like how the template allows me to build upon an existing, interesting drow villain.
as for Pc race your build is a bit powerfull not entirely sure what your after so sorry if I got it all confuled
functional templates are not available for player characters.
i created the drider template because:
i) i envision driders as being much more important in drow society, and;
ii) i have read a few interesting drow in published 4e adventures that i thought would be even more interesting as elite monsters/driders.
i am seeking to make this template as well-made as possible, thus my request for input.
So a drider template would be
+1 to type of base drow (minion becomes standard, Standard becomes elite...)
Large fey humanoid (spider)
Resist 5 + 1/2 level poison (added becouse it made sence)
Senses darkvision
Speed 8 , Climb 8 (spider climb)
Web (standard) recharge 4; Ranged 5; vs Reflex; the target is restrained (until escape).
Darkfire (Minor) Enclounter; Ranged 10; vs Reflex; until the end of the drider’s next turn, the target grants combat advantage to all attacks, and the target cannot benefit from invisibility or concealment
Quick Bite (minor) at-will * posion; Requires combat advantage; vs Fortitude; 1d4 damage, and ongoing 10 poison damage (save ends)
These are the traits that most of the current driders have. So these are the traits that would be concidered the base or template of the race.
so if I understand the goal correctly you would take the base drow add these traits to it and come out with the resoulting drider. does these reflect the goal effectivly?
ok, I can help as far as balenceing it for a monster but I never use templates. I find no need to use templates with the monster builder making it so easy to alter monsters, however I guess templates do add a fealing of all being the same yet all being difrent, however this is the same thing that is done by making many varients of the same race, So goblin would be a template and all the difrent kinds (stats) of goblins simply represent the many things the goblin template were added to.
So a drider template would be
+1 to type of base drow (minion becomes standard, Standard becomes elite...)
Large fey humanoid (spider)
Resist 5 + 1/2 level poison (added becouse it made sence)
Senses darkvision
Speed 8 , Climb 8 (spider climb)
Web (standard) recharge 4; Ranged 5; vs Reflex; the target is restrained (until escape).
Darkfire (Minor) Enclounter; Ranged 10; vs Reflex; until the end of the drider’s next turn, the target grants combat advantage to all attacks, and the target cannot benefit from invisibility or concealment
Quick Bite (minor) at-will * posion; Requires combat advantage; vs Fortitude; 1d4 damage, and ongoing 10 poison damage (save ends)
These are the traits that most of the current driders have. So these are the traits that would be concidered the base or template of the race.
so if I understand the goal correctly you would take the base drow add these traits to it and come out with the resoulting drider. does these reflect the goal effectivly?
those are very helpful ideas. thanks.
i did not include darkvision and darkfire in my template because the template is limited to drow, but if other creatures could qualify for the template, then those additions would make sense.
in my opinion, the fundamental distinctions of an elite monster, relative to a standard monster, are that it is hardier (i.e., more hit points, better defenses, etc.) and that it can attack twice in most, if not all, rounds of combat (thus, minor attack actions that are not limited in their applicability). remember, an elite monster is standing in for two standard monsters in a combat encounter. since your typical template serves the purpose of converting an existing standard monster into an elite monster, and since standard monsters generally do not have the ability to attack twice in a round, it is essential, imo, that all templates provide the ability to consistently attack twice in a round.
one of the ways that i varied from existing drider powers is by changing its web attack from a standard action to a minor action, and with no required recharge. my intent is to make the web attack a more consistent component of the drow-now-drider's repertoire; thus, making a very visual and noticeable change from drow in what the player characters experience when combating this creature.
anyway, these are some of the reasons why i made the template the way i did, but your suggestions are very good and helpful.
so going to post a remake of your idea *only slight changes and a few comments in () about things I am unsure of
* means something on that line was changed
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Prerequisite:
* Level 11, Drow Priest or drow worshiper of Lolth; can't be added to a solo base creature
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Drider
*Solo Skirmisher
Large (spider)
Resist 5 + 1/2 level poison
Speed 8, climb 8 (spider climb)
Size Large
*Aura 1: Spider swarm aura; Millions of tiny spiders swarm around a driders legs drawn by Loths devine power. Those who anger the drider quickly find themselves swarmed by these spiders; D6 per tier damage to anyone within the aura at the start of the driders turn. ______________________________________
POWERS
M-B Claw (standard; at-will) Poison
* vs. AC; Low damage plus 1d8 poison damage.
((Where is the claw attack derived from? does it's legs have claws? just woundering the fluff of the attack.))
M Double Attack (standard; at-will) Poison
The drider makes two claw attacks.
M Quick Bite (minor 1/round; at-will) Poison
*+2 vs. Fortitude; 1d4 damage, and ongoing Constitution modifier + 1/2 level poison damage (save ends).
R Web Net (minor 1/round; at-will)
*Ranged 10; +2vs. Reflex; the target is restrained and gains vulnerable 5 poison (save ends both).
*Spider swarm (minor 1/round; at will) Spured by the driders anger the spiders swarm in all directions biting everything they come in contact with.
The driders spider swarm aura becomes aura 6 until end of the driders next turn)
*Spider Link (free when first bloodied; encounter) Healing
The drider transferes it's pain to the spider swarm around it healing back to full HP by draining the life force of the spiders. (disable spider swarm aura untill the end of the next round)
Web Walker
A drider ignores the effects of spider webs and spider swarms.
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Notes on changes.
- Made the drider a solo to represent it's attacks better
- Removed secondary role related info
- Changed damage from a set number to the modifier (so it scales with lvl)
- removed the level part (if not using the adventure tool is worth adding back)
- added a prerequisite that the base creature not already be a solo monster
- added a arua 1
- changed spider link since solo monsters don't often have people to transfer damage to
- added spider swarm minor action power for fluff and to give it the ability to handle more targets better
just giving a difrent angle on the template, hopefully it gives you further ideas on how you envisioned it.
so going to post a remake of your idea
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just giving a difrent angle on the template, hopefully it gives you further ideas on how you envisioned it.
thank you for the suggestions. you have some interesting ideas.
one comment: i believe that the dungeon masters guide says that two templates applied to a standard monster makes a solo monster.
You know, now that you mention it, that web power is another one that you might want to rethink. It's one of those powers that a) piss off melee players, especially if they fail a couple of saving throws and b) turn combat into a grind. If a power makes players bored because they are just standing around and adds a couple of rounds to the combat at the same time it is not something to be used very often.
this sounds more like a criticism of the restrained condition, in general.
i see your concern, but consider that as characters and monsters reach higher levels, their ability to deprive enemies of their actions becomes more potent (e.g., dazed vs. stunned vs. dominated, and immobilized vs. restrained). this progressive potency is an inherent part of the game.
OP template
a new movement type (climb)
A new resistence
M-B Claw (standard; at-will) Poison
Level +4 vs. AC; 1d8 + 7 damage plus 1d8 poison damage.
M Double Attack (standard; at-will) Poison
The drider makes two claw attacks.
M Quick Bite (minor 1/round; at-will) Poison
Requires combat advantage; Level +2 vs. Fortitude; 1d4 damage, and ongoing Constitution modifier + 1/2 level poison damage (save ends).
R Web Net (minor 1/round; at-will)
Ranged 10; Level +2 vs. Reflex; the target is restrained and gains vulnerable 5 poison (save ends both).
Spider Link (minor; at-will) Healing
The drider can transfer up to its healing surge value of points of damage she has taken to a spider or a drow within 5 squares of her. She cannot transfer more hit points than the creature has remaining. If applicable, REPLACES Drow Priest Spider Link.
Web Walker
A drider ignores the effects of spider webs and spider swarms.
when you add all of this to say a drow preist
LVL 15 drow preist powers
Lolth’s Authority aura sight; drow and spider allies in the aura gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and a +2 bonus to damage rolls
MB Mace +18 vs AC; 1d8 + 1 damage
MB while bloodied-Bite of the Spider +17 vs AC; 2d6 + 6 damage
R Pain Web Ranged 5; +18 vs Reflex; 1d6 + 5 necrotic damage, and the target is immobilized and weakened (save ends both)
R Minor encounter-Darkfire Ranged 10; +18 vs Reflex; until the end of the drow priest’s next turn, the target grants combat advantage to all attacks, and the target cannot benefit from invisibility or concealment
AB Recharge 6-Lolth's Wrath Area burst 5 centered on a bloodied and willing drow ally; the ally explodes, releasing a burst of spectral spiders that bite all enemies in range; +20 vs Reflex; 4d8 + 5 necrotic damage. The drow targeted by this power is slain
however if the single template applied added the number of attacks sugested then it would make sence to bump it to solo with a single template.
true. again, thanks for the suggestions.