I posted this in a group forum but I wanted to hear the community at large. Sorry if this has been done to death.
For my self it depends on my confidence, Ill either use the random generation from the back of the DMG or Ill lift a map from somewhere else. Usually the lifting.
But how does everyone else do it? I have seen homemade maps that look just as random as the ones in the dungeon articles. Is there some flow and ebb that some people are tapped into? Or is the popular thing to do is just use the generating tables?
Recently I've taken to building them out of tiles that I already have printed and mounted on card. The tiles are 6x6 squares, and I have a large enough variety to keep things fresh for very many adventures if I please. Some set pieces within an adventure, I will research or draw something new.
The last time I DMed I would either lift them like you do, or just draw dungeons on graph paper.
Usually? I just imagine the scene and draw it out. This one time though... :heh:
I wanted a nice "natural" cave network that would then be surrounded by masonry dungeon. I sat in the back of a jeep while driving down a bumpy road and let my hand wander on the page with a pen. Then when I had a good series of erratic lines I went to it with a pencil to try and create masonry. In the end I really like what turned out. The erratic lines became the natural cavern areas and I had masonry that was restricted by natural phenomena. I think the setting turned out very "natural" which was the intent of using chaos input in the first place.
What I've done several times is load up the NWN1 (Neverwinter Nights 1 PC game) map editor. Then I create a map zoom out with the camera in a straight up and down position, then take a screen shot and load it up in paint shop pro. Then I place numbers on the map and from there I fill the numbers in. Then I print the map out and use the natural grid in the NWN map editor as 5' squares. It works out very nice and makes beautiful maps. Basically you are restricted to the way the tiles can fit together, but it usually looks extremely nice.
Something a friend of mine would often do was collect pictures out of magazines. He would basically make a collage of the map. Of course that was about the sum of it - and the majority of movement in the game was entierly in his head. Great visuals... not so crunchy.
1) Why is this dungeon here? Who made it and for what purpose?
2)How big should it be? Traps? Riddles? Monster Types?
3) Using what I've gleaned from 1+2 make a dungeon appropriate to the situation on graph paper.
4)Done.
This usually takes 1-2 hours depending on size and scope, but usually not more than that. I don't use a ton of dungeons in my adventures anyway and most of them are very small. I'm more of an "open adventures" kind of guy.
What Nowiwantmydmg said.
I figure out why, when, where, how and who first. I then generate the encounters, lastly I figure out the layout of the dungeon.
By going in that order, you will know how much 'room' is needed for each encounter. ie. an encounter with a monster which has lots of movement doesn't make any since if the monster is encountered in a small room. That monster is going find a place in which it can take advantage of fast movement. Likewise a trap encounter with a trap which a range of close, doesn't make any sence when encounter in a large space.
One of the things I am a big fan of is creating areas baed on the setting and not the encounter. If you create dungeons based on encounter physics then you get certain... oddities. Just because the encounter only calls for the players to spend a small amount of time and deal with a fair encounter doesn't mean the dungeon itself can't be larger than that. The underdark is a perfect example. The underdark is HUGE but players are not expected to explore its entirety in any one adventure.
The dungeon I mentioned earlier is an example of that. The initial adventure connected to the dungeon is simple "getting out" after being unceremoniously dumped into the hole. There is lots of dungeon to explore (pretty big really, not as big as the underdark, but still expansive), but the players are not expected to be interested in exploring the entire thing. The heroic version of the dungeon takes them through 4-6 chambers of the dungeon and then they are out of the caves and free to do whatever. The paragon version is more complicated as they have to find a noble that has been captured the mole people that live in the dungeon and get out with the NPC alive. The epic version involves overthrowing the ruler of the mole people and taking over the caves themselves. Same dungeon - but different degrees of involvement based on the character's tier.
First, I figure out what the campaign calls for and that would be interesting. For example, the current dungeon I'm developing came about because players needed to track down an undead source. Turned out it was a crematorium.
Second, I research the building. The majority of time spent designing this dungeon so far has been reading up on crematoriums and figuring out what they are like and how they are designed.
Third, I write a brief "story" of how events might unfold, which gives me a few key images that I try to incorporate into a broad range of possibilities (in this case, an undead creature had been put into a furnace but other undead thingies got the workers before the fires were stroke hot enough to burn it. Thus, the players come across a rattling furnace as the undead creature tries to get out).
Fourth, I begin to map out the space that each room would logically have, along with the items in those rooms that would logically be there for the location (a few tables and religious symbols in the Chapel of Rest, for example). This is usually done on a computer with a grid overlay.
Fifth, looking over the map and my key images, I try to work in other encounters, homebrewing monsters as necessary (for example, undead forest rat minions).
A general guideline I try to follow is to not have all dungeons be similar in scope. The crematorium is fairly small (but still larger than I had first thought it would be), so I'm less likely to make the next map as equally cramped.
When I draw a dungeon I am either using graph paper to get a 'basic sketch' with notes all over it reminding me or jotting down easily forgotten details for encounters, flavor or atmosphere(mood). Then I decide if I am going to use this as a map for myself which will be scaled up on a BattleMatt during play or if I want to spend the time using a CAD-FAntasy Mapping program called Campaign Cartograpger 3... or if I just want to hand draw this 'digitally' for a VVT program or if I will print out the map over multiple sheets of A size letter paper standard.
Actually generating the maps themselves and the layout is partly 'lifted' for inspiration but not direct copying of the map in question, which I have an ever growing collection that I aspire to be like.
I make the map have a sense of my time, talent and skill and do a further revisions of it after a few days or after I finish the first version coming back from a quick break. Also, putting something down after investing so much time in it is a great way for really loving your maps that you do, you might be surprised that you didn't notice or think about those rooms and locations in that way during the first version... now you can enhance the map more and more to fit your encounters.
Question? : Do any of you then decide the shape of a room based on the encounter you plan desining and running there at that location on the map or do the shapes just act as containers for the encounters and monster after the fact of them being drawn on paper before the encounters were included.
Third, I write a brief "story" of how events might unfold, which gives me a few key images that I try to incorporate into a broad range of possibilities (in this case, an undead creature had been put into a furnace but other undead thingies got the workers before the fires were stroke hot enough to burn it. Thus, the players come across a rattling furnace as the undead creature tries to get out).
Fifth, looking over the map and my key images, I try to work in other encounters, home brewing monsters as necessary (for example, undead forest rat minions).
Love the idea of undead forest rat minions... thanks, I am lifting that. I also like the idea of doing your 'study' of what happened to make this dungeon what it is... and also of trying to predict PC behavior and actions and anticipate them for ease at all at the table.
Question? : Do any of you then decide the shape of a room based on the encounter you plan desining and running there at that location on the map or do the shapes just act as containers for the encounters and monster after the fact of them being drawn on paper before the encounters were included.
Most of the time. See my post above.
A campaign I ran in Iraq had the players in the Underdark for a short time. I made a small map of the region and a table of randoms. The map showed the passages from where they were and had passages leading to the surface (one exit), a Desmondu city, Ched Nesad and Menzzobarazen. 8 passages lead out of where the were. 4 converged to the surface exit, but had several off shoot passage which could cause them to get lost or end up back where the came from or in circles or end up in Ched Nesad or Menzo; 2 were switch backs going back to the starting point. Fortunately one of the PC's was from Menzo, an Arcane Archer and a low level member of Bregan D'Arthe.
I steal shamelessly from everywhere. I've used the maps of the various ruins and fortresses found in Oblivion, even using some of the same traps and encounters, tweaked only slightly to fit the campaign better. I've lifted entire towns form that game! Back when I was doing security work, I used floorplans from the buildings I was guarding. Raiding the blueprints from an old, semi-abandoned mansion I visited (somewhat illicitly, the guard was a friend and invited a bunch of us up) gave me an awesome haunted castle, and I used to draw mazes in my spare time, so I'd use some of those, as well. Right now, I'm looking at a cluttered corner in my computer room and seeing a landscape in the Underdark...
Second, I research the building. The majority of time spent designing this dungeon so far has been reading up on crematoriums and figuring out what they are like and how they are designed.
Serious stuff. I always fudge things a little when it comes to building purpose, suitable layout and contents.
Any of your maps published anywhere?
If I'm using dungeon tiles, I break out the old WotC dungeon tile builder and plan it out.
Otherwise I go based on logic and planning, with how I might realistically set-out a mine. Or I base it on how I think a race might think (which can be chaotic and random).
I posted this in a group forum but I wanted to hear the community at large. Sorry if this has been done to death.
For my self it depends on my confidence, Ill either use the random generation from the back of the DMG or Ill lift a map from somewhere else. Usually the lifting.
But how does everyone else do it? I have seen homemade maps that look just as random as the ones in the dungeon articles. Is there some flow and ebb that some people are tapped into? Or is the popular thing to do is just use the generating tables?
How I design a dungeon depends on the situation.
For storyarcs, my dungeons are usually laid-out well in advance. But these dungeons normally undergo multiple revisions before the PCs ever step foot in them.
Other times, I borrow or draw influence from published adventures. I'll go to any edition or game-system for cool maps and encounter ideas.
Then, there's the dungeons I improvise. Usually these work well for me, but then I've had a lot of xp with this. Sometimes I'll just draw out the dungeon on the battlemat as play proceeds. Other times, I'll pick and choose dungeon tiles right on the spot.
Love the idea of undead forest rat minions... thanks, I am lifting that. I also like the idea of doing your 'study' of what happened to make this dungeon what it is... and also of trying to predict PC behavior and actions and anticipate them for ease at all at the table.
If you'd like, I can send you the stat block write up for the beasty; though it is a lvl 1 minion, designed primarily to be a challenge for the weak minions of PCs (which serve the roll of zombie food -- someone has to become zombie food if there are zombies about).
Any of your maps published anywhere?
Nope, but that is hardly a loss. While I make my maps on the computer, these are not fancy maps in any sense of the word, serving entirely as a quick-and-dirty reference for design purposes. At the table I usually hand-draw the maps (or have the players draw it) as things are discovered, so those are really more of sketches than maps.
The maps I make on my computer are little more than blocks of solid color with smaller blocks or circles representing objects. Well, I say solid color, what I really mean is garish colors like Mt.Dew-yellow/green. Essentially, whatever color is quick to select and easy to distinguish from the ones already down. This produces a very non-useable gaming map, but a quick and easy (if horribly ugly) map for my own reference.
However, if you are looking for high quality and ready-made maps, I highly recommend the Cartographer's Guild: www.cartographersguild.com
A lot of the maps posted there easily outdistance anything you'll find WotC producing, for the simple reason that some of the people posting maps there are professional cartographers. It's like having Tolkien design your story arcs or Robert Jordan designing the clothing of your characters... only, you know, with maps.
If you'd like, I can send you the stat block write up for the beasty; though it is a lvl 1 minion, designed primarily to be a challenge for the weak minions of PCs (which serve the roll of zombie food -- someone has to become zombie food if there are zombies about).
Please post or send to me the stat block. I would like to see you design before I make my own version or give you the most sencere form of flattery by fliting it into my campaign. I am not using it in anything published, so its just a campaign resource for me. Thanks in advance. 
I usually generate maps by doing it early on and recording it in graph paper (since I have the tiles)- I am now delving into the secrets of using a Mapmaker on a computer, but I still need to work out the kinks and tricks. Random generation comes as a last resort for me...