Gestalt - P.E.A.C.H.

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

obscure_user

Sep 26, 2010 23:58:38

Well with a large amount of thought coupled with the central idea to maintain game balance I produced this simple reconfiguration of the existing character construction rules to convert 3.5's "Gestalt" characters into a 4e compatible concept. More or less just got sick of building "Class, Powers, Feats" but on the table top you function exactly the same as every other person who will ever play the game with that same class and powers...either that or you can play it wrong and suck.

I'm hoping I can use this to pry apart the cookie cutter 4e class paradigm as I simply think it's to restrictive to break everything down into the core concepts of "DPS, TANK, HEALS" when that's kinda the part about playing that isn't fun. Every one should be able to do each of those things as the circumstance evolves, not be rendered useless because you have no ranged powers to "attack the goblin on the bridge" or don't have anyway of granting yourself another healing surge when you've fallen into a pit outside of the healers range.

Anywho here's my idea. Be honest as I intend to be using this concept in the games I run, and any mechanical holes I may have missed or skipped can be better found with extra sets of eyes.



IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dmg35_gallery/DMG35_PG189_WEB.jpg)

#2

rampant

Sep 27, 2010 0:55:45
Seems to me that Hybrid classes would work fine for this.

What are you trying to do that they don't already? 
#3

obscure_user

Sep 27, 2010 3:18:56
Sorry, but the penalty to 1/2 Level Progressions makes this absolutely unworkable. Just to give you an idea of how very bad this is, if you took three power sources and maximized your attack bonus in all other respects, you would still need an 18+ to hit things.



Hmm so to strict on the penalty for Multiple Power Sources. That can be fixed.


Also, the restriction by source and of at-wills makes this even worse than Hybrid classing as far as restricting concepts goes.



This allows you to pick a Cleric At-Will, a Bard-At Will, an Avenger Encounter, and a Rune-priest Daily. Having powers from as many classes as you want is the dynamic I'm going for, Hybrid rules only allow for Two Classes and forces you to take a feat to do one or the other slightly better. Unless the class isn't very Dependant on these Hybrid Talents (Hybrid Psions) or the hybrid feat is to good to pass up (hybrid Wardens). This allows you to have all Rogue powers, and have a Fighter's daily to be literally a fighter with Rogue powers. As opposed to a restricted hybrid that is only a fighter when he/she uses Fighter powers.


Finally, there are very few classes who have a level 1 Daily that they aren't going to retrain eventually. You're expected to retrain limited use powers as you rise in tiers.

So yeah, sorry about the bluntess, but this proposal is critically flawed in a number of respects. Do try again though.



That was a first draft remnant that I really wasn't all that sure about but left it on anyhow. I suppose it could be taken off and the related character options of the power can be reworded to express the restriction that they do not change if you retrain the daily. My thinking was that a gestalt could simply be a Cleric one level and an Avenger the next, which is not what I'm trying to create.

Seems to me that Hybrid classes would work fine for this.

What are you trying to do that they don't already? 



Hybrids are quite simply to restrictive toward class features. If you play a say a Wizard|Swordmage, you aren't a wizard with Swordmage powers, nor are you a Swordmage with Wizard powers. You are a Wizard|Swordmage, identical to every other Wizard|Swordmage. With exceptions limited to feat options, you're going to be the same as every other Wizard|Swordmage.

As a Gestalt you can literally be a Wizard with say Warlock powers, or be a Warlock with Wizard powers. The key is capturing ALL the class features of what a class does and integrating it with powers outside of that classes selection. In essence one need not Hybrid Wizard|Bard to get his or her hands on Thunder Wave. They need only select it as a power they want, and still get all the class features of being a Bard, or vise versa and everything in between.

I've been thinking of other ways to present this but thus far this is the best I've come up with. Though I have been tossing the idea around of simply selecting a class as normal and then selecting any powers that share that classes power source. It would toss out a few lines of text and simplify the whole "gestalt" equation, and then generate more.

At any rate thanks for the input, I'll be making some changes! Laughing

#4

rampant

Sep 27, 2010 3:37:29
Ok since the power curve is largely irrelevant to you why not use the 3.5 gestalt rules? modded for 4e?

Pick two classes, gain the higher 1st level hp, hp per level, surges per day, ref bous, fort bonus, will bonus, any and all automatic skills, and whichever class offers more trained skills (not counting autos) sets how many skills you can be trained in (chosen from both lists), the combined weapon/armor/shield profs, and any and all class features. Then when selecting powers simply chose from both lists.

Further more, the eternal seeker epic destiny allows you to trade out your class powers for any other class's powers, so if you want a balanced system that seems the way to go. 
#5

Krusk

Sep 27, 2010 15:07:35

"You can pick powers from any class provided you are the same role".


If you want it to be more complex add the following lines... "Pick one stat, all your attacks use this stat. If you would like, you can swap class features on a one to one ratio between classes. Strikers cannot pick the 'Extra damage' powers unless they have swapped away their existing 'extra damage' power." (Obviously the avengers 2d20 thing is an extra damage power)


If you really care, you can say they have to be the same power source, or they can't be the same power source, or whatever.