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Getting rid of skills completely PEACH

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
hanexs
Aug 17, 2008 21:50:35 Hi, I didnt like skills in 3e, and they seem almost an afterthought in 4e. I was thinking of getting rid and them and just using statchecks instead.

I also remember the old 2e "Skills and Powers" book that had substatistics. So Strength had Muscle and Stamina, Dex had Aim and Balance, Con had Health and Fitness ect.

I was thinking about using substatistics to take the place of stats and allowing a spread of 4 (so a character with a 16 in Str could choose a 14 in Muscle and 18 in Stamina).

I was also thinking of enforcing some class stereotypes for my campaign (only theives can pick locks, only mages can use knowledge arcana, only martial classes can bash a door, ect, ect) So while skills wouldn't exist, a mage with a high dex couldn't even try to pick a lock.

I think this might be an interesting home rule if I worked on it a bit. What do you think?
#2
lady_ishtar
Aug 17, 2008 23:03:02
Hi, I didnt like skills in 3e, and they seem almost an afterthought in 4e. I was thinking of getting rid and them and just using statchecks instead.

I also remember the old 2e "Skills and Powers" book that had substatistics. So Strength had Muscle and Stamina, Dex had Aim and Balance, Con had Health and Fitness ect.

I was thinking about using substatistics to take the place of stats and allowing a spread of 4 (so a character with a 16 in Str could choose a 14 in Muscle and 18 in Stamina).

I was also thinking of enforcing some class stereotypes for my campaign (only theives can pick locks, only mages can use knowledge arcana, only martial classes can bash a door, ect, ect) So while skills wouldn't exist, a mage with a high dex couldn't even try to pick a lock.

I think this might be an interesting home rule if I worked on it a bit. What do you think?

i think the first part would take a lot of book keeping, but it has a potential. you have to ask yourself how different would the sub-stats be? whats the difference between Stamina, Health, and Fitness?

would health affect your total HP, and fitness your healing surge value? so whats stamina for?

aim and balance would work better, and i dont remember what the other substats were, but overall i think it would just add a lot of headache for not much return.

as for class stereotype abilities, i wouldnt do that. after all if you want your wizard to sneak around and pick locks, thats just a wizard/rogue multiclass, without "multiclass" feats.

and skills are nothing but ability checks anyways. all you would take away is being able to specializa in a certain task.
#3
yamishinobi
Aug 17, 2008 23:10:34 4e skill checks are just abiltity checks, the highest natural bonus you can get is +33 in one skill, most players won't have more than +29 in thier highest skill

skill

1/2 your level + ability modifer + certain relevant modfiers, all these extra mods do is say you are better at some skills than others. they folded a bunch together anyway. (75% of the list) so why is this neccessary?
#4
theninjad
Aug 18, 2008 13:48:47 You have a good approach to how you would remove skill, if you really feel the need to do so. I, however, feel that skills do make just a bit more sense in a lot of situations.

I think that maybe ability checks should be used more often but skills not done aways with. Skill represent specific training in areas like knowledge of history that you simply wouldn't have just for being really smart.
#5
tequila_sunrise
Aug 18, 2008 14:43:19
I was thinking about using substatistics to take the place of stats and allowing a spread of 4 (so a character with a 16 in Str could choose a 14 in Muscle and 18 in Stamina).

Most players will react to this one with anything from "eh...whatever...too much bother" to "oooh so if I tank my stamina for more muscle I can deal an average of 20 more damage per fight and only lose a couple points to Endurance..." to "ah, I just remembered I have to be right now. don't bother inviting me to your next session."

I was also thinking of enforcing some class stereotypes for my campaign (only theives can pick locks, only mages can use knowledge arcana, only martial classes can bash a door, ect, ect) So while skills wouldn't exist, a mage with a high dex couldn't even try to pick a lock.

Most players will react to this one with anything from "ah, I just remembered I have to be right now. don't bother inviting me to your next session." to "my warlock can't pick locks?! but it goes with my backstory!" to "but my fighter is the wizard's bodyguard. what's wrong with him knowing Arcana?!"

Personally I wouldn't like either of those situations, but maybe you enjoy adversity.

TS
#6
Krusk
Aug 18, 2008 15:31:07 Your idea is essentially what 4e did. They just threw an illusion of choice ontop and are pretending it is more complex than it is.

Anyone can do any skill,and it is just ability mod + 1/2 level. Some classes though, are better at specific skills than others. A total of +5 better.

If you tell your players skills dont exist anymore, they might be a little upset. But if you just accept that they are simply skill checks now, your players will be happy with their skills, and you can have your simple stat checks instead.

A better idea might even be to say instead of fighters picking 3 out of a list of 5, they get these 4. Then you pick the 4 that you feel represent that class. (I would not be a fan, but you seem to think only mages can do arcane ect)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 hanexs Aug 17, 2008 21:50:35	Hi, I didnt like skills in 3e, and they seem almost an afterthought in 4e. I was thinking of getting rid and them and just using statchecks instead. I also remember the old 2e "Skills and Powers" book that had substatistics. So Strength had Muscle and Stamina, Dex had Aim and Balance, Con had Health and Fitness ect. I was thinking about using substatistics to take the place of stats and allowing a spread of 4 (so a character with a 16 in Str could choose a 14 in Muscle and 18 in Stamina). I was also thinking of enforcing some class stereotypes for my campaign (only theives can pick locks, only mages can use knowledge arcana, only martial classes can bash a door, ect, ect) So while skills wouldn't exist, a mage with a high dex couldn't even try to pick a lock. I think this might be an interesting home rule if I worked on it a bit. What do you think?
#2 lady_ishtar Aug 17, 2008 23:03:02	Hi, I didnt like skills in 3e, and they seem almost an afterthought in 4e. I was thinking of getting rid and them and just using statchecks instead. I also remember the old 2e "Skills and Powers" book that had substatistics. So Strength had Muscle and Stamina, Dex had Aim and Balance, Con had Health and Fitness ect. I was thinking about using substatistics to take the place of stats and allowing a spread of 4 (so a character with a 16 in Str could choose a 14 in Muscle and 18 in Stamina). I was also thinking of enforcing some class stereotypes for my campaign (only theives can pick locks, only mages can use knowledge arcana, only martial classes can bash a door, ect, ect) So while skills wouldn't exist, a mage with a high dex couldn't even try to pick a lock. I think this might be an interesting home rule if I worked on it a bit. What do you think? i think the first part would take a lot of book keeping, but it has a potential. you have to ask yourself how different would the sub-stats be? whats the difference between Stamina, Health, and Fitness? would health affect your total HP, and fitness your healing surge value? so whats stamina for? aim and balance would work better, and i dont remember what the other substats were, but overall i think it would just add a lot of headache for not much return. as for class stereotype abilities, i wouldnt do that. after all if you want your wizard to sneak around and pick locks, thats just a wizard/rogue multiclass, without "multiclass" feats. and skills are nothing but ability checks anyways. all you would take away is being able to specializa in a certain task.
#3 yamishinobi Aug 17, 2008 23:10:34	4e skill checks are just abiltity checks, the highest natural bonus you can get is +33 in one skill, most players won't have more than +29 in thier highest skill skill 1/2 your level + ability modifer + certain relevant modfiers, all these extra mods do is say you are better at some skills than others. they folded a bunch together anyway. (75% of the list) so why is this neccessary?
#4 theninjad Aug 18, 2008 13:48:47	You have a good approach to how you would remove skill, if you really feel the need to do so. I, however, feel that skills do make just a bit more sense in a lot of situations. I think that maybe ability checks should be used more often but skills not done aways with. Skill represent specific training in areas like knowledge of history that you simply wouldn't have just for being really smart.
#5 tequila_sunrise Aug 18, 2008 14:43:19	I was thinking about using substatistics to take the place of stats and allowing a spread of 4 (so a character with a 16 in Str could choose a 14 in Muscle and 18 in Stamina). Most players will react to this one with anything from "eh...whatever...too much bother" to "oooh so if I tank my stamina for more muscle I can deal an average of 20 more damage per fight and only lose a couple points to Endurance..." to "ah, I just remembered I have to be right now. don't bother inviting me to your next session." I was also thinking of enforcing some class stereotypes for my campaign (only theives can pick locks, only mages can use knowledge arcana, only martial classes can bash a door, ect, ect) So while skills wouldn't exist, a mage with a high dex couldn't even try to pick a lock. Most players will react to this one with anything from "ah, I just remembered I have to be right now. don't bother inviting me to your next session." to "my warlock can't pick locks?! but it goes with my backstory!" to "but my fighter is the wizard's bodyguard. what's wrong with him knowing Arcana?!" Personally I wouldn't like either of those situations, but maybe you enjoy adversity. TS
#6 Krusk Aug 18, 2008 15:31:07	Your idea is essentially what 4e did. They just threw an illusion of choice ontop and are pretending it is more complex than it is. Anyone can do any skill,and it is just ability mod + 1/2 level. Some classes though, are better at specific skills than others. A total of +5 better. If you tell your players skills dont exist anymore, they might be a little upset. But if you just accept that they are simply skill checks now, your players will be happy with their skills, and you can have your simple stat checks instead. A better idea might even be to say instead of fighters picking 3 out of a list of 5, they get these 4. Then you pick the 4 that you feel represent that class. (I would not be a fan, but you seem to think only mages can do arcane ect)