Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bioengine Jun 09, 2008 10:09:08	I am working on a level 5 campaign with the following premise: "A wizard has summoned some of history's greatest heroes from the past in a time of struggle and strife to fight against the Invincible Overlord (from "City State of the Invincible Overlord") and the forces he commands. Unfortunately, something went wrong, and the heroes are brought forth from farther in time when they were younger and less experienced." [Campaign Setting: Past] 1. Age of agricultural development and/or feudalism 2. Magic can be learned by willing, intelligent individuals who either find a mentor or attend some sort of school. 3. People live in harmony with nature. 4. Architecture is usually composed of wood and stone. 5. Work is mostly performed by men and beasts of burden. 6. Women are primarily homemakers. 7. Religion unifies communities and kingdoms under their own deity. [Campaign Setting: Present] 1. Age of industry (steam engine, railroads, factories, etc) 2. Magic is considered rare knowledge. 3. People see nature as wild, untamed and dangerous. 4. Architecture is usually composed of stone and metal. 5. Warforged are common, though the process of their creation is a carefully guarded secret. 6. Women work many of the same jobs as men, though few are employed for manual labor. 7. No unifying religion, though there is at least one group of devoted followers for each deity. 8. Public meetings have been banned by the Invincible Overlord. 9. Elementals and outsiders are extremely rare, and are themselves legendary. 10. Conflict: Government vs business, business vs labor unions. 11. There are groups of rangers, and a few druids, who continue to protect the wilderness from deforestation and cultivation. 12. Dragonmark dynasties: The great dragonmarked families are the barons of industry and commerce throughout Khorvaire and beyond. Their infl uence transcends political boundaries, and they remained mostly neutral during the Last War. While not technically citizens of any nation, the matriarchs and patriarchs of each house live in splendor within their enclaves and emporiums located throughout Khorvaire. These dynastic houses of commerce derive their power from the dragonmarks—unique, hereditary arcane sigils that manifest on certain individuals within the family, granting them limited but very useful magical abilities associated with the trade guilds the family controls. 13. The Invincible Overlord is attempting to conquer lands through arranged marriages, written contracts, and force. 14. Education is more readily available than it was in the past. 15. Potions, Scrolls, Wands, Wondrous Items, and magic weapons and armor can only be found as loot in ancient or long-forgotten places, in the possession of someone who still has the knowledge to make them, or in the possession of a collector. 16. Members of The Arcane Congress, founded by King Galifar, and the Twelve, established by the dragonmarked houses long ago, are the two greatest institutes of magic in Khorvaire. Secret cults and cabals also preserve the knowledge of magic. [Character Creation] I always begin my campaigns with character creation being done on the first day. I want this to be a lot more than mere hack'n'slash. The plan is to request some information from each player about their character. Something like this: 1. Why the character is heroic or legendary. (certain high stat, noble acts, etc) 2. Where the character is from. 3. At what point in the character's life he or she is summoned into the future. [Characters in the Present World] What I need from this community is to help me decide how the campaign world and npcs should react and interact with these heroes of old. For example, do some people recognize these heroes? Does this time traveling affect the heroes' character development? 1. It is not likely that the heroes would be recognized, but if they were they might be mistaken for someone who is trying to emulate the legendary hero that they resemble with some ulterior motive in mind. 2. The world needs to be noticeably different from the times and places from which the PCs are taken. Most likely these areas will be clothing and architecture, but I will definitely emphasize a difference between how abundant magic is in the past versus its present rarity. 3. Families of the heroes may or may not have survived throughout the span of time that they have traversed. For example, a descendant of one of the PCs may have married into royalty at some point. 4. Because magic is rare (but still in existence) in the "present setting", the PCs will be at an unique advantage if they can cast spells and craft magic items. 5. The "present setting" will not have a single unifying religion or deity, which may create conflict with fanatically devoted paladins and clerics in the party (if any).
#2 eldritch_lord Jun 10, 2008 21:46:45	What I need from this community is to help me decide how the campaign world and npcs should react and interact with these heroes of old. For example, do some people recognize these heroes? Probably not, as they wouldn't resemble their older selves, and most likely stories have grown in the telling until the actual heroes are almost unrecognizable. Does this time traveling affect the heroes' character development? It depends: Do the heroes retain their memories and such and are just less powerful and in younger bodies, or are they summoned from before they became heroes the first time? If the former, the heroes will probably turn out the same as their legendary selves, which might require some fluff arrangement between you and the players to make it work; if the latter, probably not, so the players can do whatever they want with them.
#3 epochgames Jun 11, 2008 22:53:26	That's actually a pretty good idea, novel in fact. As to whether it would change the character development of the individual characters, I'd have to say it would. Why? They're legendary because of what they did in the past, most likely on their own or different companions, now they're in this different time frame, different circumstances, different friends--it won't necessarily make them any less of heroes in the end, although it would be interesting if some really weren't heroes, but just had legends spun around them, because of falsehoods or see one go the opposite direction with this new set of circumstances. As to how the world interaction would go, that's a good question. How long ago did they live? How much has the world changed? Insert your favorite time spanning movie or books here, and consider the challenges faced by some of those protagonists. Perhaps someone who was a hero at one point was a bloodied, merciless warlord before the legends grew--remember, the victor writes his own chapter in history. How much has the world changed? I'd have to agree with the previous poster in that the characters would not be recognized unless there was something truly unique about them, which could lead to some interesting role-playing as they might be mistaken for someone trying to bastardize a hero's legend of perhaps a descendant of that hero.
#4 bioengine Jun 12, 2008 15:23:58	Thanks for the replies. First, the PCs are taken from a point in their lives before they became legendary. One of the interesting conflicts is that the characters can read and hear about what they did later in their lives to become legendary, which may or may not inspire them towards that same path of greatness under this new set of circumstances. I'm thinking that these heroes will be taken from times and places where magic was rare and powerful. Perhaps building materials were primarily wood in the characters' own time period, but since then have been replaced by stone and metal. I should definitely think about the settings and emphasize that they are very different than what the characters are accustomed to. I'd have to agree with the previous poster in that the characters would not be recognized unless there was something truly unique about them, which could lead to some interesting role-playing as they might be mistaken for someone trying to bastardize a hero's legend of perhaps a descendant of that hero. That gave me a great encounter idea. Thanks!
#5 idabrius Jun 12, 2008 15:33:52	I believe you should go out and read a book by David Eddings called The Redemption of Althalus. It features a thief during a classical-era or dark-ages social downturn who journeys to a mystical godly palace and is there removed from time for several centuries before returning to a vastly altered landscape.
#6 umbralknight Jun 12, 2008 16:25:43	2. The world needs to be noticeably different from the times and places from which the PCs are taken. Most likely these areas will be clothing and architecture, but I may emphasize a difference between how abundant magic is in the present versus its past rarity. The first thing that comes to mind, for me, on this point is to make the present day world more 'industrialized', sort of like ebberon; magically powered constructs (aka machinery) are not uncommon, and have become more prolific than 'old school' style wizardry and magic. Thus, modern magic is all pretty much artifact and item based, which makes the 'lost arts' practiced by any of your spellcasting PCs all the more special (this is not to say that no one but the PCs have access to old school magic, just that it is rare and generally unknown in polite society). Pity we don't have a 4th ed Artificer class yet, since this would fit into the modern world perfectly. But you can still do it without Artificers. To add to that, if any of your PCs are of a non-human race, dwarves and elves being the most obvious, you can contrast the past and the present by highlighting what happened in that race's history. Maybe elves were hunted to near extinction by fanatical humans in a grand witch hunt? Maybe the dwarves were cut off from the surface world by a calamity brought on by magic, which collapsed the entrances to their clanholds and forced them to expand downwards to survive? Maybe Hobgoblins entered a new golden age, as the decline in the world's wizards made martial ability and organisation the benchmark for cultural stability? Whatever suits your world best. To go hand in hand with that, you can introduce the warforged as a new, modern race created by means of the new emphasis on artifice. So, whereas before you had a high fantasy world of humans, elves and dwarves etc., now you have a much different world dominated by humans and increasingly filled by armies of warforged. (Your Dark One could even be planning to seize control by somehow taking control of the warforged legions) Hmm, thinking further, I think it would also be a good idea to make your major human society non-monarchical, so as to contrast the way things were run in the past, and to make the new world seem ever more strange to your time travelling heroes. [edit: maybe the society is dominated by the fanatic priesthood that carried out the elven genocide? You get the idea) As an optional thing, in the likely event that one or more of your PCs is a cleric or paladin, you could take a page from Dragonlance's book and say that the gods are silent in the modern era, which could result from a move away from tradition religion somewhere in the society's history, as it embraced false gods. Thus, the return of a true cleric or paladin to the lands becomes a major thing for your players to roleplay. (Note; this is not to say that there are no clerics just that they have largely dissapeared from mainstream society. Your Dark One could be a servant of, or perhapts the avatar of, one of the true gods of evil who has made a move to claim the world in the absense of other true gods.) These are all just off the cuff ideas. I hope they help. If you like any of them and want more input, shout. [edit+] I believe you should go out and read a book by David Eddings called The Redemption of Althalus. It features a thief during a classical-era or dark-ages social downturn who journeys to a mystical godly palace and is there removed from time for several centuries before returning to a vastly altered landscape. Having read this also, this is not a bad idea if you want some alternative insight. However the transition here is pretty much from bronze age to iron age, so it might not be drastic enough for your tastes. If you read it, that is (addressing Bio here, not implying that Idabrius hasn't read it, in case my use of the word was unclear).
#7 idabrius Jun 12, 2008 16:30:07	Ah, it's been a long time since I read the thing, couldn't quite remember the periods it took place in. Still, I thought there were enough minor perceptible differences that they might be able to build up to a total time-shock. That having been said, playing in a shorter or longer "before" adventure might help give them a feeling of being shaken up.
#8 umbralknight Jun 12, 2008 16:39:04	Ah, it's been a long time since I read the thing, couldn't quite remember the periods it took place in. Still, I thought there were enough minor perceptible differences that they might be able to build up to a total time-shock. Yes I do agree. Its also been a while since I read it, but a scene involving paper money comes to mind. What happened here [for the rest of you] is this; our protagonist, a thief, was confounded in his efforts, because of the facts that a) he couldn't read and b) he hadn't heard of paper money before. So he ended up stealing a fortune's worth in bills, only to discard the lot, thinking it worthless garbage. That having been said, playing in a shorter or longer "before" adventure might help give them a feeling of being shaken up. This. Yes.
#9 bioengine Jun 13, 2008 13:03:11	I looked through some of the Eberron books, and added some information to the original post. Included is a growing list of characteristics in the past and present settings.
#10 idabrius Jun 13, 2008 14:18:13	After reading some of your new points, I have additional reading material for you: Mistborn by uh.. lemme see here... Brandon Sanderson. TOR-Forge gave it away for free as a download part of their media blitz for their new website (wizards could take a page out of their book, hoho) at tor.com Anyway, I have the pdf of it if you're interested. It details a Victorian world of intense class struggle that describes what happened if the hero didn't win the Last Big Battle. The world is in the age of the Final Empire, ruled over by the all-knowing Overlord and his Observers (actually a cool social concept whereby all contracts must be witnessed by an Observer of the Iron Inquisition to be legally binding, thus giving them knowledge of many things). I can send it to you if you want to read it. Sounds perfect for what you're going for.
#11 fodigg Jun 13, 2008 16:15:51	There was another threadabout this type of campaign a while ago. I'll repost my concept here: I like the idea of starting the campaign at a high level and having the "scene" end in what appears to be TPK (and the victory of ultimate evil), and then bam, they're back at level 1 and they have a chance to change their fate. Whenever they accomplish something meaningful in the past, they jump forward again, and the world is different in small or large ways. It would be very "chrono trigger", which I like. I would recommend that you only start them at really high level, and occassionally return to a really high level version of their characters (that you write for them so they don't see it coming) so that you can shove them in the "final hour" every once in a while to get a glimpse of how it has changed, but otherwise allow them to progress normally up in levels as they gain experience. I wouldn't let them make multiple characters at different levels of play. This way they are travelling through time and retaining their experiences until they actually reach the final hour scenario with the build and experiences that have come out in the campaign. I don't know if that was clear, and I like plotting, so the following is kind of going to happen if you guys want it or not (;)): Campaign plot concept (potentially): Pre-campaign prep: Players create level 1 characters and submit these characters to the DM a week prior to "kickoff". The DM creates level 20 versions of these characters that look and feel distinctive, wield weapons and items that the characters may or may not find over the course of the campaign, and bear scars from wounds that the characters might or might not be destined to suffer. Kickoff session (Part One): The players sit down and expect you to give them back the character sheets that they made, but aha, instead you give them the "uber" versions of their characters and describe the scene: "You all experience the sensation of rushing movement and suddenly snap "awake" to find yourselves standing on a battlefield. You all feel strange, and not just because you have no memory of how you got here. Your body feels stronger, but battle hardened. [Fighter], you feel the aches of old wounds that you never experienced. You hold in your hand a longsword surrounded by fire. [Wizard], your fingertips seem to crackle with a power you had never before even dreamed of. You feel like you could pull the stars from the sky if you weren't already so exhausted. (etc, describe rest of the characters) "As you glance around at each other, you know that you are allies, but have no memory of the battles you fought together. Only a few seconds have passed as you recovered from your initial disorientation, and observed your allies and yourselves. A sudden roar overhead draws your attention outward and towards the battlefield. It's night and stars fill the sky, but the whole battlefield is illuminated by fire. A red dragon circles above you, occassionally blasting fire upon the hapless troops attempting to flee the battlefield. In the distance a city burns, its walls crumbling and breached. "More immediately, a figure stands in front of you, astride a skeletal horse draped in black. His face is a skull, and his black plated armor is his skin. He wields a halbred wreathed in green and black fire, and he's laughing at you. He speaks: 'Long have you sought to rob me of my prize, meddlers! That ends here, on this battlefield, along with the kingdom you sought to protect!'" Begin crazy level combat, show that the death knight is an uber badass, and either wipe the party or beat them down enough where you feel comfortable ending the scene. Kickoff session (Part Two): Tell any surviving party members that they begin to feel the same strange "rushing sensation" and the last thing they see is their allies slain and the battlefield/kingdom burning. Collect "uber" character sheets and pass out their character sheets. Describe the characters waking up. "[Paladin], you awake to the sound of children talking rapidly. You open your eyes and see a crowd of them standing over you and talking excitedly. A loud voice booms over the din, "Back off! Get away from him, let me see!" A gruff looking farmer pushes the children out of your vision and squints as peers down at you. "Easy, friend. You took a nasty spill off your horse." The farmer looks up and blocks the sun with his hand. "Heat stroke my guess. We should get you out of the sun and out of that armor. Come on now." (Describe each party member waking up under similar circumstances, having collapsed as they go about their day. Make up the usual excuses for getting a party of adventurers to work together, or just railroad them by having everyone brought to the same cleric to try and make sense of their "visions". Party is formed, dire destiny is alluded to, and the quest to find and kill the death knight has commenced.) Later session (finding the death knight): Along the course of their quest the party of adventurers find and confront the Death Knight, if not defeating him, then at least weakening him or otherwise disrupting his forces. As they're splitting up the loot, cue "rushing sensation". Collect character sheets once again and pass out the new "uber" character sheets. The "uber" sheets should be changed to include the new statistics on the regular character sheets. Magical items that the characters found might still be worn. Any characters that have died and been replaced, the new character should be present and the old one missing. The battlefield is the same, the kingdom is in ruins, but the Death Knight is gone. In its place, a Lich stands and gives a similar speech, combat resumes briefly, but don't bother with the full combat. Fade back to "present" with the undertanding that there is more at work than just the ambitions of one Death Knight. The quest to save the kingdom resumes, with a new focus.
#12 nunchuckgun Jun 24, 2008 9:25:32	This is a really cool idea, I like it. I think with a bit of extra work, you can spice it up even more: Each character is from a different time, each with massively different political or social economic structures, the names of the places they inhabit may have changed over time (like with the rotating consonants idea from another thread), but the hero's name has persevered throughout the ages. Tales of their exploits are known to each generation younger than them. example: Clara, paladin knight is from the OLD time. She purged the kingdom of 40 demons that were attempting to eat the queen. Bryant, 200 years later, while pickpocketing the Duke in a seedy tavern, overhears a bard singing about Lady Clara's exploits. Slizvak, dragonborn warrior, living a few decades later, knowing stories of the Robin-Hood-like hero Bryant the Mongoose, is inspired to help the poor and needy against the massive merchant corporations of his port town Laui. And suddenly they all get sucked out of their own timelines and plopped in the middle of the Invincible Overlord's reign of terror.
#13 fodigg Jun 24, 2008 14:20:11	This is a really cool idea, I like it. I think with a bit of extra work, you can spice it up even more: Each character is from a different time, each with massively different political or social economic structures, the names of the places they inhabit may have changed over time (like with the rotating consonants idea from another thread), but the hero's name has persevered throughout the ages. Tales of their exploits are known to each generation younger than them. example: Clara, paladin knight is from the OLD time. She purged the kingdom of 40 demons that were attempting to eat the queen. Bryant, 200 years later, while pickpocketing the Duke in a seedy tavern, overhears a bard singing about Lady Clara's exploits. Slizvak, dragonborn warrior, living a few decades later, knowing stories of the Robin-Hood-like hero Bryant the Mongoose, is inspired to help the poor and needy against the massive merchant corporations of his port town Laui. And suddenly they all get sucked out of their own timelines and plopped in the middle of the Invincible Overlord's reign of terror. Interesting. So the action for this concept would take place at the "destination" timeframe. The Overlord's reign. I like this as a paragon or epic tier game concept. Essentially, when you roll up your paragon or epic hero, you also get to make up a backstory at any point of the timeline where you were a totally awesome, heroic badass.