| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1ryskinOct 20, 2009 17:50:33 | Being new to fourth edition I'm assuming I'm going to need a lot of help balancing this race out. So please don't hold back on the criticism, on anything that is overpowered/underpowered. I just want the old gnome back for my world. I'm going with a gnome variant, based mostly off of the second edition gnome, akin to the dwarves and a natural tinkerer/alchemist. You know, those wonderful little gnomes who were always blowing themselves up And I'll apologize ahead of time for the formatting...
Gnome Variant Languages: Common, Gnome Flash of Genius Racial Power |
| #2generalhenryOct 20, 2009 18:32:25 | Other than needing a new name, looks good. |
| #3ryskinOct 20, 2009 18:35:46 | Thanks for the quick response, I was a bit worried it would be underpowered. |
| #4Crimson_ConcertoOct 20, 2009 18:41:59 | The Natural Crafter: Gnomes can create items and potions one level higher their current level, instead of the normal equal level requirement. This is useless without the Alchemist feat, so unless you feel like giving them that feat as a racial feature as well, this feature should be removed. Immediate Reaction Personal You realize that you can't use immediate actions on your own turn, right? That severely limits the usefulness of this power. I believe you're looking for a Free action. Effect: You gain combat advantage on your next attack against the target you missed. Basing any racial feature or power solely off of a singular ability score is a bad idea because of how it pigeon-holes the races into specific ability score arrays or else end up with a useless racial feature. This was the mistake made with the Tiefling's racial feature. I recommend that you have this feature read: If that attack hits, you deal bonus damage equal to your constitution modifier, your intelligent modifier, or your charisma modifier, whichever is highest. |
| #5generalhenryOct 20, 2009 18:43:27 |
hard to say. Even it it was, it's got a very rare and fairly useful stat combo. Great for infernal warlocks, staff wizards, shielding sword mages and last but not least battle smith artificers.
I'd worry more about naming the race and coming up with it's feats than with improving it's stat block. |
| #6ryskinOct 20, 2009 18:55:39 | Thanks Crimson for the help, I knew you couldn't take an immediate action on your turn, so I'm not really sure what was going through my head.
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| #7ryskinOct 20, 2009 20:43:19 | On top of the feat I decided to add three alchemical recipes for free. Too much? |
| #8generalhenryOct 21, 2009 13:08:55 | For the name: Svirfneblin
feat: red cap. prerequisite: Svirdneblin benefit: you can use simple weapons as if you where a medium creature, and a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with simple weapons.
also flash of genius should do 5 more damage at paragon and 10 more damage at epic |
| #9QubeOct 21, 2009 15:15:56 | Very Nice. Mind if I use them for my Gizmo Idea? they fit perfectly for what I called the Lathian Gnome. |
| #10Crimson_ConcertoOct 21, 2009 16:27:53 | also flash of genius should do 5 more damage at paragon and 10 more damage at epic I disagree. I don't think it's necessary to scale that bonus damage by tier, and even if it were, I think that 5 and 10 are excessive. Maybe 2 and 4 or 3 and 6... However, I see where you're going with the idea, I think I could be persuaded otherwise by the right argument, and I wouldn't have any harsh objection to it being 5 and 10. |
| #11generalhenryOct 21, 2009 17:03:19 |
tiefling -- no scaling revenant -- no scaling duergar -- scaling attack and damage (1d8) gnoll -- scaling (2 or 4 if bloodied) dragonborn -- scaling attack and damage (1d6, 1d10 with feat) minotaur -- scaling attack and damage (1d6) bugbear -- scaling damage (1d6) orc -- only scaling at epic half orc -- no scaling genasi -- scaling attack and damage (1d6 or 1d8)
conclusion: most racials scale both attack and damage. And it's generally 4 damage per tier. |
| #12Crimson_ConcertoOct 21, 2009 17:36:21 | tiefling -- no scaling Exactly. That's what I was looking at. dragonborn -- scaling attack and damage (1d6, 1d10 with feat) Their racial powers are distinct attacks. That is not the same as a racial power that adds an effect to another attack, like the Tiefling power or the Half-Orc's power or this Gnome's power, because there's a good chance that the attack being modified is already scaled. gnoll -- scaling (2 or 4 if bloodied) These are down there as two of the worst-designed PC races, and they are the two worst-designed PC race if you fix small size. I wouldn't try to use them as proof of anything, and the Minotaur's racial power is irrelevant here anyways, because it's a distinct attack power as opposed to a power that modifies an attack, as I've explained above. bugbear -- scaling damage (1d6) These are not PC races. They're NPC races. They follow different rules and conventions than PC races do, and the Duergar and Orc powers are, again, irrelevant here. revenant -- no scaling Don't recall that one, but I'll check it out. However, if it's anything like how I remember, being its own power as opposed to modifying antother power, then it probably should scale.
So in the end, you have TWO examples, the Bugbear (an NPC races) and the Gnoll (a terribly-designed PC race), that scales damage in a way relevant to this Gnome.
EDIT: Incidentally, the Storm-Soul Genasi's Promise of the Storm power would be relevant to this discussion too, but unfortunately the power is a badly-designed one (for reasons other than the scaling, don't worry) so I, again, wouldn't use such a badly though-out power to try to prove any point. It does technically tip the scales in your favor if you ignore that fact that the Bugbear isn't a PC race, but because the Tiefling also doesn't have the best though-out racial power, it's probably also not fair that I use that to prove my point with any more weight, so I guess if we take out all of the irrelevant and badly designed stuff, we're only left with Half-Orc and Gnoll. I throw Gnoll back in because that racial feature isn't actually the badly-designed part of that race, so it may not be fair of me to discount it. So, that's one for me, Half-Orc, and one for you, Gnoll. I think this one is a tie... =P |
| #13generalhenryOct 21, 2009 18:11:35 | yep, so no scaling would be fine, or scaling by 2, 3 or 4 would be fine. And my original scaling by 5 is a bit too much. |
| #14neuroglyphOct 21, 2009 19:42:26 | I like the idea, but aren't thay kinda close in personality to the WoW Gnomes? |
| #15Crimson_ConcertoOct 21, 2009 20:26:53 | I like the idea, but aren't thay kinda close in personality to the WoW Gnomes? Uh-oh, you're not WoW-phobic, are you? ![]() |
| #16generalhenryOct 21, 2009 21:07:09 | Yes, they are like wow gnomes because wow gnomes are based on D&D tinker gnomes.
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| #17ryskinOct 22, 2009 6:33:16 | I like the idea, but aren't thay kinda close in personality to the WoW Gnomes? I hate referencing anything to Wow, because I hate WoW. WoW gnomes are a lot like my Gnomes (which is of course tailored after your typical old-school D&D gnome), not the other way around.
And to Qube, I would be delighted if you use this build. Part of the reason I put this up on the board was so that, once fleshed out, people would have a more traditional gnome to use.
And as for the scaling... I am incredibly torn on a subject I hadn't even thought of, if I do decide to scale it will probably only be two and four. I guess I'll consult my players, and luckily they like balance more than being overpowered themselves (in previous games they have often screwed themselves mid-combat by pointing out something I messed up on that would have helped them greatly if they had kept their mouths shut), so I know they'll be honest with me. |
| #18ryskinOct 22, 2009 6:38:01 |
I actually already thought of Svirfneblin and decided against it, since all my players are long time D&D players, it was a deep gnome and I don't want to portray the wrong message with the name.
EDIT: Would it be too much for the weapon to have to be a gnome craft? Essentially they can use them because they have found a way to create the weapons, making it easier for them to wield them at their small stature (they are really smart). It just goes a long with my whole idea of them being so ingenious. |
| #19generalhenryOct 22, 2009 11:25:18 |
Yeah, I hear you on the baggage on Svirfneblin. It's not great, just imo better than alternate gnome or rock gnome. The feat would not stack with weapon focus and the like. Note: it's also a great feat for casters. I'd not want to force gnome crafted weapons. Because most the party's weapon will come from loot. |
| #20RustmonsterOct 23, 2009 1:56:06 | The only real problem I have with this race is that, well, it's not a race. It's a character. This is a build made specificly for a "alchemical genius" character. Free Alchemy feat, free alchemy formulas, making items higher level than usual. I understand you want to get the "tinker gnome" feel, but this race is ridiculously stilted towards ONLY being alchemists. It takes away much of the potential to give an interesting background to the character, because no matter what you do, no matter how they were raised or whatever, they are just alchemists. That's my opinion of it as a race in general. If Gnomes in your personal campaign are really this specific, then it seems pretty fine. My only real objection is that it's not very good as a generic race, but as that isn't the purpose of it, it's not as bad. I still feel you could get the feel of "tinker gnomes" without slapping a bigh straightjacket reading "ALCHEMY ONLY!" on the race, though. As for the WoW thing, yeah, they also used gnomes in the style of tinkers. You both drew from the same sources. I think it's a bit silly to be so averse to comparions for that reason. |
| #21generalhenryOct 23, 2009 2:55:31 | I could stand for the tinker part being moved more into racial feats |
| #22ryskinOct 23, 2009 11:08:25 | If someone wants to use the race in their world and feels it is too narrow, then by all means, adjust it to fit your world. Gnomes in my world are alchemical/innovative geniuses, I really came here just to make sure they weren't overpowering in any way. So as I said, if you like the concept and want to use it, play with it to fit your world, but as for mine this is really the image I was trying to create. Although I was thinking (as a suggestion from my current DM who will be playing in this world) to take away the alchemy feat and say that a gnome can by default create alchemical items three levels lower than him if he does not take the feat, but if he chooses to do so then he'll get the level bonus when he is crafting. This way i could possibly add another minor feature for flavor. Suggestions? Comments? |