I am an avid reader with biblical and ancient history and was thinking of setting my campaign in a land of city states similar to that of classical greece. The characters start off in the city of Obsidia, a trading post similar to Athens in some respects and will be surrounded by other states hoping to take it for themselves. The characters (should they choose) must foil the plans of the other city-states or ally with them against Obsidia but when they get to a certain tier (Paragon mabye) they discover that there is an even greater threat poised to take all of the land for themselves.
Is there anything I can add to this to make it seem more interesting?
As for rules I have also been looking up the latest Dark Sun book and came across a optional rule for primative weaponry, it states that when you roll a natural 1 the weapon will break, this rule is really applied to stone-age weapons but I thought it could be good for bronze weapons as they can be quite brittle. A similar rule could be used for bronze armour or shields such as when an attacker rolls a natural 20 they wreck the armour/shield forcing the target to take an AC penalty.
This setting was inspired by greek myths and such films as Clash of the Titans and Jason and the Agronauts but I could use some help and suggestions to improve it. Any advice or help you could give would surely be appreciated.
And heaven help you if you're a melee class that gets a lot of close bursts/blasts. All that extra d20 rolling will make sure you need a wagon full of back-up weapons.
Actually the brittleness of bronze age weaponry is dependent upon the alloy from which it is made. Many bronze age swords were actually very soft and more at risk of rapid dulling or blunting than breaking. In many cases iron age weapons can be considered more brittle than bronze age weaponry.
It seems earlier editions generally had a less finely-tuned balance (i.e., balance was so flaky that small changes to weapon and armor mechanics could be counted among the least of the group's problems), and could absorb such changes more easily.
If you feel the benefits outweigh the risks, I would strongly suggest only applying breakage and other penalties to "muggle" weapons and armor, and NOT to magical equipment. Even at low levels, the party's fighter can relatively easily switch to a backup shortsword to replace a broken broadsword, but as things advance and magical equipment breaks, it's going to cause a lot of unnecessary friction and grief.
Mechanics aside, though, I don't think much needs to be done to make a classical setting exciting. There are thousands of years of memorable and entertaining mythology to draw from, and a great deal of the entries in classic D&D bestiaries are drawn from classical mythology, by way of films like Jason and the Argonauts, Sinbad the Sailor, Clash of the Titans, and so on.
The Christian Bible and its Apocryphal books describe a lot of darned peculiar things as well that could inspire some very interesting monsters or planar allies:
Many people might be surprised that the Bible refers to satyrs, unicorns, and cockatrices.
There are also talking serpents stirring up trouble, fallen angels bound in chains in desert dungeons, demon-possessed men haunting graveyards, a baby's-breath-stealing succubus, flying serpents of fire, and the gates of Eden guarded by creepy angels with flaming swords.
I seem to recall the apocryphal books of the Bible describe dragons, behemoth, leviathan, and the mysterious nephilim giants and monsters (the monstrous offspring of humans and angels) in great detail.
Ezekiel Chapter 1 - What monster designer could resist Ezekiel's unearthly description of "the likeness of four living creatures" emerging from the fires of the heavens, each creature with four faces, and joined wings, and accompanying wheels studded with eyes and terrible voices like roaring water?
[spoiler Ezekiel's Wheels Full of Eyes]
1: Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.
2: In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin's captivity,
3: The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.
4: And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
5: Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.
6: And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.
7: And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.
8: And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.
9: Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.
10: As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
11: Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
12: And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.
13: As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.
14: And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.
15: Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.
16: The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.
17: When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.
18: As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.
19: And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
20: Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
21: When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
22: And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
23: And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.
24: And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.
25: And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.
26: And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
27: And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
28: As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
[/spoiler]
Revelations Chapter 13: The Beast from Revelations rises up out of the sea to rule the world, with seven heads imprinted with names of blasphmey and ten horns bearing crowns...
[spoiler The Beast of Revelations]
1: And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2: And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3: And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4: And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6: And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8: And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9: If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10: He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11: And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12: And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13: And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14: And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15: And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18: Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
[/spoiler]
Reveleations Chapter 9 - "And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power...." This chapter goes on to describe flying locusts with the stinging tails of scorpions, the faces of men, the teeth of lions, golden crowns and iron breastplates, and lots more fun.
[spoiler Abaddon's Locusts]
1: And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2: And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3: And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4: And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5: And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6: And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7: And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8: And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9: And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10: And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11: And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12: One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13: And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14: Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15: And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16: And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17: And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18: By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19: For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
20: And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
[/spoiler]
Daniel Chapter 7: Daniel has a vision about four world-destroying monsters, including a winged leopard with four heads, and a monster with iron teeth and ten horns (including a talking horn with eyes!)
[spoiler Daniel's Beasts]
1: In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
2: Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3: And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4: The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5: And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6: After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7: After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8: I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9: I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10: A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11: I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12: As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13: I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14: And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
15: I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
16: I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.
17: These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
18: But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
19: Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
20: And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21: I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22: Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
23: Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24: And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26: But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27: And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
28: Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.
[/spoiler]
And that's just the Bible - roughly bronze-age mythology and religion from Greece, Rome, Turkey, Egypt, Persia, other parts of Europe and the Middle East, and even from the Aztec, Inca, and other "new world" cultures could provide a wealth of exciting and strangely fresh ideas to work with
Instead, all you need to do is to make iron and steel special. Perhaps any +2 or better weapon or heavy armour is in fact made of iron, and anything +4 or better is in fact steel?
@Detoxifier: I'll have to look into that as I have only read about it in books and I havn't seen any live demonstrations of exactly how durable bronze weaponry would be.
@YronimosW: I agree with your magic weapon statement, only non magical items should be affected by this rule if it is applied at all, as for the weapon and armour mechanics I might consider asking my players if they would like the idea (its their game too). Also, thanks for the biblical exerpts, I might be able to make something out of that.
@Flatfoot: Hmmmm, seems like a good idea. I'll keep it in mind, its certianly a good idea though.
@slobo777a: That might work, would iron weapons gain an advantage against bronze armour?
These are some interesting ideas and point-outs to consider, thank you.
By the way, has anyone got any ideas on how the common races could work in a ancient greek like setting? Iv'e got ideas for humans, dragonborn, wilden, half-orcs, goliaths and minotaurs but I'm a bit sketchy with the other races.
Copper by itself is a very soft metal, so bronze age weapons are an alloy of copper, tin, and a number of other metals in order to increase strength while retaining malleability. These metals are also forged at relatively low temperatures.
Each bronze age weapon would have been different as each craftsman would have used slightly different techniques and metal mixes for the alloy, remember this is long before quality control and mass production so each end product was unique from all others.
Hello everyone, I'm a DM looking for a few ideas on a setting I have been working on.
I am an avid reader with biblical and ancient history and was thinking of setting my campaign in a land of city states similar to that of classical greece. The characters start off in the city of Obsidia, a trading post similar to Athens in some respects and will be surrounded by other states hoping to take it for themselves. The characters (should they choose) must foil the plans of the other city-states or ally with them against Obsidia but when they get to a certain tier (Paragon mabye) they discover that there is an even greater threat poised to take all of the land for themselves.
Is there anything I can add to this to make it seem more interesting?
As for rules I have also been looking up the latest Dark Sun book and came across a optional rule for primative weaponry, it states that when you roll a natural 1 the weapon will break, this rule is really applied to stone-age weapons but I thought it could be good for bronze weapons as they can be quite brittle. A similar rule could be used for bronze armour or shields such as when an attacker rolls a natural 20 they wreck the armour/shield forcing the target to take an AC penalty.
This setting was inspired by greek myths and such films as Clash of the Titans and Jason and the Agronauts but I could use some help and suggestions to improve it. Any advice or help you could give would surely be appreciated.
In that case just give the weapon a hitpoint value and subtract any physical strength bonus so it doesnt break with the first fail - rather it fails over time beginning at the first fail. So a Bronze sword with 20 hp being wielded by a +2 Str bonus has a total of 10 hits beginning with the hitroll of 1(hit or miss) before it shatters.
In that case just give the weapon a hitpoint value and subtract any physical strength bonus so it doesnt break with the first fail - rather it fails over time beginning at the first fail. So a Bronze sword with 20 hp being wielded by a +2 Str bonus has a total of 10 hits beginning with the hitroll of 1(hit or miss) before it shatters.
That is ridiculous. You're penalizing characters with good stats, you're forcing characters to carry dozens of backup weapons because they break with regular use when the normal rule is weapons never break ... hell, that's penalizing people just for using weapons. Everybody with half a brain would pick an implement class.
That may be the worst houserule EVER.
In that case just give the weapon a hitpoint value and subtract any physical strength bonus so it doesnt break with the first fail - rather it fails over time beginning at the first fail. So a Bronze sword with 20 hp being wielded by a +2 Str bonus has a total of 10 hits beginning with the hitroll of 1(hit or miss) before it shatters.
That is ridiculous. You're penalizing characters with good stats, you're forcing characters to carry dozens of backup weapons because they break with regular use when the normal rule is weapons never break ... hell, that's penalizing people just for using weapons. Everybody with half a brain would pick an implement class.
That may be the worst houserule EVER.
In what way is it a bad hitroll? The hitroll of 1 means the weapon is damaged - the HP of the weapon may exceed the damage inflicted initially to the weapon but not over time from this moment on - and damage to the weapon as a consequence can weaken it so it begins to fail as opposed to immediatly shatter.
@slobo777a: That might work, would iron weapons gain an advantage against bronze armour?
Well, +2 to hit (or +2 to AC) is an advantage.
If you want to see more effect than that, you could always:
1) Give Iron and Steel items the traits of Mithril and Adamantine from RAW. I.e a +2 Iron Longsword is actually statted as a +2 Adamantine Longsword.
2) Homebrew some properties or powers that you grant to the iron and steel weaponry and armour to represent their superiority over everything else. Just remember to keep the power level approrpriate so the game keeps ticking along nicely. Easiest thing to do is take the properties of existing items that are granted for other reasons, and re-fluff as "because it's high-grade steel" - then keep the level, cost and rarity exactly the same.
And if your first attack rolls was a 1 and you have any kind of decent attack mod, your weapon will break halfway through the battle.
Unless weapons are free, you're going to behind the curve permanently due to the expenses you will have.
I like Slobo's suggestion. Don't penalise the baseline, replace +2 magic with Iron and done. Now Iron weapons are automatically awesome.
...By the way, has anyone got any ideas on how the common races could work in a ancient greek like setting? Iv'e got ideas for humans, dragonborn, wilden, half-orcs, goliaths and minotaurs but I'm a bit sketchy with the other races.
I have the D20 Ravenloft campaign setting core books, and one of my favorite things those books did was translate the D&D races into a gothic horror setting in the spirit of those wonderful old Universal monster movies (Frankenstein, Dracula, The Wolfman, and so on....) The most dramatic example was that the Ravenloft setting did not have a native Orc population and so there were no native Half-Orcs; the Ravenloft setting instead simply re-skinned the Half-Orc race into the "Caliban", a monstrously deformed and unnaturally strong creature thought to be the offspring of dark spirits and bewitched humans, loosely based on the Hunchback or Igor types of characters. On paper, it was a Half-Orc in every way except flavor text.
So, with that in mind, you could reskin existing PC races into any of a bewildering variety of satyrs, fauns, wild men, little people, titans, nephilim, pygmies, and so on... creatures that represent the bastard offspring of gods and men, or nature spirits, or exagerated descriptions of foreign people living just beyond the forest or mountains, or distorted accounts of animals described as people (babboons were described by travelers as a race of dog-men), and so on.
However, I think I would probably set human beings as the default race of the world, and then let players who want to play another race work out how they fit into the general theme by giving their own reskinned descriptions of what the races look like and do, and backstories of where they came from, keeping the PC race stat blocks while encouraging the players to do somethng as different from Tolkein-style fantasy Dwarves and Elves as possible.
For example, I borrowed a bit from middle-eastern mythology about Tiamat and the Djinn, with a little bit of Atlantis and Prometheus tossed in, to reskin Dwarves:
- Salamanders: [Use the standard Dwarf stat block] A small, dark, long-lived race of people with a lean, feral appearance. They typically wear white face paint, and their traditional dress is dark hooded robes and black veils; fierce Salamander warriors sometimes file their teeth into points. The Salamanders were said to have been one of the races that sprang from the blood of the World-Serpent during its war with the gods at the beginning of time, and were said to have sold the secrets of fire, storytelling, reading and writing, and magic to men against the wishes of the god of Blood, Thunder and Fire, who punished the Salamanders by casting Theotn, their ancient capital, into the sea. The remnants of the Salamander civilization can be found scattered on desolate islands and wind-swept cliffs in the form of cunningly crafted spires of ominous black stone, housing sinister cults, ancient libraries, and great schools of magic. They are typically thought of as a selfish and violent people, yet exceptional Salamanders often appear in heroic legends as fiercely loyal, brave, and deeply thoughtful creatures. Salamanders are well-known for their legendary Druids, Rangers, Wizards, and finely-crafted crossbows....
Iv'e also come up with an idea for the Deva in the setting, as YronimosW stated sometimes the greek gods would impregnate women who would give birth to demigod children, the Deva are these so-called demigods in my setting. If you wish to hear the rest of the races I can post them.
The geography of the setting is coming along well but I'm still thinking about making unexpected twists, an ultimate enemy based on the Persians might be a bit pradictable.
Anyway thanks for the posts, please keep them coming.
