The first 4E product purchased, many many many more to go!
Quick Review from reading it:
Layout:
Layout of the adventure is basically the standard format seen in most printed adventures. Each Chapter/Section has a map of the area and then the following pages explain what's in each area and how to run the encounters. The adventure starts out with a series of plot hooks to bring your party in to the adventure. Unlike in a lot of other adventures, the book makes sure to tell you how to incorporate those hooks in to the adventure as you go along. Some even have side-quest type things all there own that fit in to the overall adventure. Also each plot hook comes with a suggested reward for completing it (Exp and sometimes loot). The hooks themselves are pretty standard fare ("Save my missing husband/mentor/person", "Investigate evil", etc)
Encounters
The vast majority of the encounters involve large areas at least 20x20 squares and sometimes more. For indoor areas that usually means multi-room encounters. This adventure does a good job of trying to cover how enemies react to various situations rather then just one (so when your party does something sneaky/cleaver you know what to do). Most of the encounters involve some tactical element that will make things harder for the PCs if they aren't careful. There basically aren't any "there are monsters in the room, kill them" type encounters. The closest they get to that are encounters with LOTS of monsters that you likely have to be careful when fighting or else they'll overpower you through sheer numbers. 4-5 enemies is common, 13+ isn't un-heard of (although most are usually minons). The final encounter is quite interesting and can be very memorable in the hands of a skilled DM who can describe well whats going on.
Traps aren't heavily used in the adventure but when they are they are interesting and make sense in their placement. Monsters use the traps to their advantage whenever possible. There is also one "Trap" encounter that is interesting and involves several traps interacting with eachother (reminiscent of the trap encounter system introduced in Secrets of Xen'drik). There is very little of "the door is trapped, make a save vs poison" or other Gygaxian traps.
Adventure:
The adventure itself is fairly meh. Evil cults, undead, kobolds, goblins, etc. It flows fairly nicely (at least to read) and if run well should be interesting to the players. Events lead one to another in a logical fasion and the book includes advice on what to do if your players ignore the obvious hooks and how to make the adventure more interesting.
Rules Quirks:
Since it is intended to be run before the 4e PHB comes out, the book includes quite a few "How to play" type tib-bits all over the place. However, some things (which are quite important) aren't explained although one can reasonably infer that they haven't changed much in the switch to 4e. A good example of this is normal vision vs lowlight vs darkvision. Normal vision is obvious and low-light probably hasn't changed. However a lot of monsters have dark vision and it doesn't come with a distance value like it does in 3.5. Another example is torches/sunrods. They probably haven't changed much but since they come in your inventory of the pregen characters it would be nice if they explained what they did. I think the adventure just assumes that you are running the pre-gen wizard who has the "Light" spell cantrip (which is at will).
Eceteras...
Gnomes: Evil. Pure Evil. I hope the single gnome in the adventure isn't indicative of the entire race since its abilities are NASTY (especially in the hands of a rogue).
Artwork: Nice but not exceptional. Lots of maps (both large layout maps and local combat maps) and they are quite detailed.
Pit Traps: You fall in, no save. Have fun being eaten.
Pit Traps: You fall in, no save. Have fun being eaten.
And you were saying there are no Gygaxian traps? :D
And you were saying there are no Gygaxian traps? :D
True Enough :3
But seriously, the two encounters with pit traps aren't exactly debilitating but they are an inconvenience. One pit is has a rat swarm in it (swarms no longer auto-hit and don't have weapon immunities so they aren't as nasty) and the other is near a bunch of enemies that burrow. The trap itself doesn't do a whole lot of damage. Unlike a Gygaxian pit trap that is likely to either cripple or kill you.
True Enough :3
But seriously, the two encounters with pit traps aren't exactly debilitating but they are an inconvenience. One pit is has a rat swarm in it (swarms no longer auto-hit and don't have weapon immunities so they aren't as nasty) and the other is near a bunch of enemies that burrow. The trap itself doesn't do a whole lot of damage. Unlike a Gygaxian pit trap that is likely to either cripple or kill you.
Or just annoy the hell out of you, as per the pit traps in the Tomb of Horrors.
In any event, pit traps are something that I am wondering about. All that talk about traps being part of encounters or encounters unto themselves, and pit traps just struck me as "you fall and take damage".
Your descriptions have been most helpful in understanding the works. Anything else you think you might mention without infringing? ;)
Or just annoy the hell out of you, as per the pit traps in the Tomb of Horrors.
In any event, pit traps are something that I am wondering about. All that talk about traps being part of encounters or encounters unto themselves, and pit traps just struck me as "you fall and take damage".
Your descriptions have been most helpful in understanding the works. Anything else you think you might mention without infringing? ;)
I think I can so long as I don't say stats and such. If I say too much I'm sure the WizOs will correct me :3
Basically, the Trap is in a room with some goblins guarding it. The goblins try to trick the PCs in to falling in to the pit so they can shoot them with their crossbows at their leisure. The pit has a rat swarm in the bottom which will swarm over anything that falls in. The pit is large and takes up a sizeable portion of the room so that unless you know it is there, it is likely you'll fall in.
'Spose that'll teach me!
I think I can so long as I don't say stats and such. If I say too much I'm sure the WizOs will correct me :3
Basically, the Trap is in a room with some goblins guarding it. The goblins try to trick the PCs in to falling in to the pit so they can shoot them with their crossbows at their leisure. The pit has a rat swarm in the bottom which will swarm over anything that falls in. The pit is large and takes up a sizeable portion of the room so that unless you know it is there, it is likely you'll fall in.
So, no save, no attack roll, no Perception, nothing? You're just walking and then *splat!*?
That is devious!
So, no save, no attack roll, no Perception, nothing? You're just walking and then *splat!*?
That is devious!
From the rules presented, there are exactly two ways to know the trap is there before you fall in:
A.) Actively Looking for traps (a perception check)
B.) Another player falling in instead of you.
heh.
As an intro to 4e, it looks good - I'll have to run it for my players this weekend (if they're willing).
I can see it now. "You're following the rogue, he turns the corner and disappears.. At your feet there is a 10 foot hole. You hear shouting as someone falls into a pile of rats. What do you do now?"
heh.
...isn't that what rogues are for? :D
How easy is it to read? The last prewritten I saw was scourge of the Howling Horde, I wasn't too pleased (backgrounds were printed too dark, layout was funky).
I got my copy today too. I'll second the OP's first impression - quality wise, this module's not worth the price tag. Two flimsy booklets (with very little art) and three battle maps - but then again, I don't think anyone's buying this for the adventure :P
As an intro to 4e, it looks good - I'll have to run it for my players this weekend (if they're willing).
the maps are nice, i like that they are large and double sided.
normally i would not pay so much for a dungeon, but i made an exception this time, ill also get use out of these maps beyond running the dungeon
And magic items... Are there a total of 5 in this adventure? One for each PC?
Sorry, my FLGS doesn't get my pre-order until this thurs.
The paper used I would describe as a touch thicker than your standard magazine paper and a bit less glossy.
The whole thing (maps, adventure, quick start rules) fits into a card stock folder which is nice, but I would have like to have seen the cover of the adventure itself be a bit more durrable.
70 pages (plus 10 for the quick start rules) looks like it is going to be a blast to run...can't wait!
We should have found:
GP equivalent for 2 level 1
GP equivalent for 2 level 2
GP equivalent for 2 level 3
A level 2, 3, 4, 5 item
A level 3, 4, 5, 6 item
A level 4, 5, 6, 7 item
Quickly through the whole document
(All level guesses are just that.. guesses)
+1 Dwarven Chain Mail (3)
+1 Amulet of Health (2)
+1 Bloodcut Hide Armor (4)
+1 Symbol of Battle (level 5)
(Adventure says Level here)
+1 Magic Wand (3)
+1 Blackiron Scale Armor (the very tough to find "secret" treasure) (6)
Aecris, +1 magic longsword (5)
Shield of Protection (4)
(Adventure says Level here)
+1 vicious short sword (7)
Safewing Amulet +1 (4)
Bag of Holding (6)
+2 magic dagger (5)
And of course smatterings of silver, gold, gems, and artwork throughout....
And of course the +1 Blackiron Scale Armor is choice considering the resistances it gives you and the challenges you'll soon be facing.
Although the +1 BI Scale is pretty tough to find... it begs the question with all this carefully balanced treasure and looting.. and James Wyatt even said in his excerpt on Treasure that (perhaps some is hidden away). What happens to your careful balance if the PCs don't ever find the item?
Will knowing that they missed an item (because of course we HAVE to get 4) make them spend the whole session tearing the dungeon apart stone by stone to look for it? Or as the DM are you duty-bound to make sure that item gets into their hands somehow? Or do you just let it go and they'll be down an item or two for the next few levels (although this could lead to the first possible scenerio..e.g. mass dungeon search)
I got my copy today too. I'll second the OP's first impression - quality wise, this module's not worth the price tag. Two flimsy booklets (with very little art) and three battle maps - but then again, I don't think anyone's buying this for the adventure :P
As an intro to 4e, it looks good - I'll have to run it for my players this weekend (if they're willing).
Actually if you turn them over its 6 battle maps. And to take that even further some encounters only use half so it is more like 8 or so battle maps.
I have it too, and ran our first session last night. SO I am happy to answer questions also.
My copy is due to arrive Friday and I'll be running it on Sunday. So I just wanted to find out a few things:
1. Did you have to prepare a lot ahead of time before running the session?
2. Did the adventure and 4e mechanics in general run smoothly?
3. Are you an avid 3e/3.5e DM moving to 4e? If so, do you think knowing 3e/3.5e helped or hindered your understanding of 4e? If not, was 4e easy to understand?
4. Finally, just give us your overall impressions on running 4e and the quality of the adventure.
Thanks
1. Almost no prep time is needed.. if you throw out the quests.. the PCs will be taking almost all the action by themselves. And the module is well-designed to facilitate on-the-fly DM Q&A sessions.
I will say if you use minis.. you might want to make sure you have them all on hand. Nothing spoils the excitement of a tense fight.. then spending 15 minutes looking for 10 kobold minis.
2. The adventure ran smoothly.. my group is a pretty laid back bunch. The 4E rules were a little clunky only because we don't yet have the PH/DMG. The book tells you the status effect of being prone...but not what the action/consequence? is for standing back up.. for example.
3. Been playing 3.0 since the day it came out at GenCon... knowing 3rd edition rules definitely helped... forgetting them was even more helpful :D (Like 1 square movement, Cover = -2 penalty, not everyone gets an advantage if they have to yet to act in the first initative round, etc etc)
4. Running 4e.. was probably the best DMing experience of my 14 years of DMing.
-Minions are AWESOME
-Low-level monsters are no longer boring!
-The fights were so incredibly dynamic.. it was almost difficult to believe it was D&D. The turn-style nature of the combat.. almost dissolved away, and the classic.. we engage and then stand there and beat each other.. was entirely non-existant.
Just one of the fights in particular vs. a large band of kobolds and a wrympriest. the WP has the ability once per encounter to rile the kobolds up and let them shift a square. Combine that with the kobolds ability to shift two squares on a turn. .and that's 3 squares of movement with no opportunity attacks.
There was so much movement going on in that fight.. the lines were constantly being drawn, erased, and re-drawn. And to say the fighter didn't feel like a complete and total DEFENDER OF DEATH.. as he opportunity attacked all those kobolds trying to shift past him.. would be the understatement of the year.
Now, I'm going to call my players and see what they're doing tonight (I thought it would be much harder to convert for two players, but it was really quite a sinch).
Got home from school today and it was waiting in my mailbox. I nearly squealed with glee. Practically ripped it open (careful not to damage the book) and poured over it until now (that's about an hour and a half). In that hour and a half I got a basic grasp on the rules, a quick peek at the characters, a flip through the adventure, a thorough reading of the first couple of scenes, and I also managed to convert treasure and monsters to suit two players.
Now, I'm going to call my players and see what they're doing tonight (I thought it would be much harder to convert for two players, but it was really quite a sinch).
I have two players also...care to explain the changes you made? If you can PM me, that would be best perhaps, although I'm sure many here might want to know.
Also, I haven't played since 2000. I don't have any 3e exp, so will this be a large hindrance, or perhaps not? Also, I have no minis. How does one get specific minis without buying a whole slew of those random boxes of DnD Minis?
Example: A1 Kobold Ambush
1 kobold skirmisher (100 xp)
3 kobold dragonshields (375 xp)
1 kobold wyrmpriest (150 xp)
625/5*2=250
This is where the DM has to look at the encounter and see what's important. I thought the wyrmpriest looked pretty important to the encounter, and decided to give him a dragonshield as a bodyguard. I could've put in the slinger and make it exactly 250 xp, but I think my players'd enjoy that more.
So in the end you have
1 kobold dragonshield (125 xp)
1 kobold wyrmpriest (150 xp)
Then for the treasure (5 gold, 23 silver, and a horny thing worth 80 gold) I did the same thing.
5/5*2=2 gold
23/5*2=9(.2) silver
80/5*2=32 (roughly worth 30 gold)
3 kobold dragonshields (375 xp)
1 kobold wyrmpriest (150 xp)
625/5*2=250
This is where the DM has to look at the encounter and see what's important. I thought the wyrmpriest looked pretty important to the encounter, and decided to give him a dragonshield as a bodyguard. I could've put in the slinger and make it exactly 250 xp, but I think my players'd enjoy that more.
So in the end you have
1 kobold dragonshield (125 xp)
1 kobold wyrmpriest (150 xp)
Then for the treasure (5 gold, 23 silver, and a horny thing worth 80 gold) I did the same thing.
5/5*2=2 gold
23/5*2=9(.2) silver
80/5*2=32 (roughly worth 30 gold)