Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thrushfeather Jan 22, 2009 15:40:14	Hey all, It's been a long time since I've been on the boards, and it's good to finally be back. I was wondering if you all could help me design and balance a monster around a special power or power suite. The general outline is a group of humanoids (medium) from the shadowfel influenced by powers in the abyss. I want them to be annoyingly mobile and sneaky, maybe having a rechargeable power that gives them an extra action (usable while bloodied maybe) in their turn, teleportation, and invisiblity, etc. etc. Specifically I was wondering if people could help me design a power that lets them grab a character and then teleport with them X number of squares away. This is also probably a recharge ability but I wass wondering about defenses, damage, range etc. I would like to use these guys in the first battle with level 1 characters so some level 1 versions would be nice, cappin off with some bigger ones around level 3 or 4. I'm thinking they should be Lurkers, or skirmishers and maybe have a few that fill the soldier role. I really like the idea of one of them teleporting past the front line grabing the wizard and then teleporting back into a hoard of minons who just shread him. I'd be very greatful for ideas and suggestions on mechanics and balance for individual powers and the monster as a whole. Two other asides: - Is there a precedent on incapacitateing players. Is stunning too powerful at level 1? What do you suggest? I want one of the above monsters to be able to teleport incapacitate a single guard (possibly a PC) grab a person and teleport out with the person before the guard can recover. Thoughts? I'm nervous about railroading with over powerful creatures here but the story hinges importantly on this contingency. - Has anyone seen a new draw up of the Lemure (Goo-Devils) for 4e? I finally have a use for them and they have disappeared from the monster manual. I'm looking for them to be level 1 minions but I want to see if anyone else has done anything with them. Thanks! TF
#2 rikiji Jan 22, 2009 16:35:48	There are some fairly solid guidelines in the DMG for building monsters. The grab attack should be versus Reflex and damage should be typical for the role and level. Lurker and Skirmisher are the best choice, if you build a soldier I'd substitute something else for the grab-and-teleport. I'd also question making it a recharge ability for anything besides elites and solos. Based on your description, I would question if this is an appropriate adventure for 1st level characters, or even heroic tier. These are exotic, extra-planar creatures and I'd consider them more appropriate for paragon levels. -As far as incapacitating players - yes Stun is too powerful at level 1. Daze would probably suit your needs nicely, although an encounter Stun wouldn't be too bad provided it only lasted a turn (I'd limit it to an elite or solo though). -I believe there's a write up of Lemures, or something close, in the Planar Handbook.
#3 dstar23 Jan 22, 2009 17:23:46	created a quick starter monster that might give you some insperation! I gave it a basic bite attack with what I think would be a low level version of what you wanted as far as the grab and teleport goes. Demonborn Demonborn are a vicious humanoid race created by evil wizards that tried to infuse the blood of humans with the blood of demons. The creatures became crazed and chaotic, and formed a never-ending hunger for flesh. Demonborn - Level 2 Lurker Medium Elemental Humanoid (demon) XP 125 Initiative +5 Senses Perception +10 HP 30; Bloodied 15 AC 16; Fortitude 15, Reflex 13, Will 15 resist fire 1 Speed 6 Bite (standard; at-will) +5 vs. AC; 1d8+3 damage; Special: if the demonborn bites a target it has grabbed it gets +2 to attack Claws (standard; at-will) +7 vs. AC; 1d4+3 and the target is grabbed Feast Alone (encounter; recharge 6) +5 vs. Dexterity; The target is grabbed and the demonborn and the target are teleported adjacent to each other up to 6 squares away. (this movement does not cancel the grab.) Alignment: evil Languages: abyssal Skills: Stealth +6 Str 16 (+4) Dex 10 (+1) Wis 16 (+4)Con 12 (+2) Int 12 (+2) Cha 8 (0) Demonborn Tactics Demonborn immediately move into melee and attempt to utilize their feast alone encounter power. If successful they try to continue to grab their prey as they make bite attacks. Demonborn Lore Arcana DC 15: The demon blood that flows through the veins of demonborn has given it the unique capability to teleport. Arcana DC 20: The demonborn are actually quite intelligent even though their animalistic nature would suggest otherwise. They have learned that grabbing a foe and teleporting allows them to feast away from potential competition.
#4 thrushfeather Jan 22, 2009 17:39:25	Thanks guys for the thoughts! Thank you especially for the speedy write-up. I'll use it as a great start. If you or anyone have any other ideas on how to furthure develop these guys in to some real low level nasties level me know. I'd love to hear more! TF
#5 dstar23 Jan 23, 2009 0:06:31	Thanks guys for the thoughts! Thank you especially for the speedy write-up. I'll use it as a great start. If you or anyone have any other ideas on how to furthure develop these guys in to some real low level nasties level me know. I'd love to hear more! TF I made a few quick adjustments to the demonborn creature that make it more mechanically sound. I also didn't realize that the feast alone power dealt 2d10+3 damage which would make the monster way overpowered. It has been eliminated. Also wanted to throw a couple ideas at you to think about when tweaking the monster to your specific needs. 1) An Elite version that gets bonus' to attack and damage against bloodied targets would be cool. (call it Flesh Frenzy?) 2) A minion version that uses its feast alone power to pull a target next to a tougher monster could provide some unique challenges. Granted the power shouldn't recharge on a minion version.
#6 thrushfeather Jan 23, 2009 13:13:30	Yeah, the retooling looks right. I was really excited about Feast alone doing that much damage (and I might keep the damage on a higher level, or elite version; being forceably yanked through extradimensional space might be kinda painful) but I think you're right with the new write up. The other tweaks look nice too. i was thinking about another power (Aura 1) that lets them teleport enemies that fall prone around them... There are a few other controler powers I might put on to some other varients. I like the idea of these guys fighting mecanically in a way similar to Nightcraler from the white house scene in X Men 2. Especially teamed with soldiers who can just make it awful for anyone unfortuneate enough to be droped next to them.... Ideas? I'm thinking about developing several of these guys so I can use them themanically up till about level 5 or so off and on. Thanks, TF P.S. Are the guidelines for the moster roles pretty solid and how much can I deviate from them when createing mosters?
#7 mellored Jan 23, 2009 13:22:57	You may want to have the "leader" grab and teleport, and have minion's (or perhaps a swarm) that wait for a meal to be brought back. That would be fun
#8 doomsought Jan 23, 2009 14:41:23	This sort of sounds like my telekinetic slivers, att Vs will push pull x squares. no damage. works well for slivers though. strait nasty with artillery or lurkers (push one guy into being flanked by some lurkers hiding in a bush)
#9 dstar23 Jan 23, 2009 16:14:44	=P.S. Are the guidelines for the moster roles pretty solid and how much can I deviate from them when createing mosters? I think the guidlines are very solid! However, that doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't deviate a little. The role system I believe is to help young and inexperienced DMs create unique battles. It helps DMs create battles that have multiple ways of playing out with lots of different types of threats that the party must take into consideration when fleshing out their battle strategies. That said, all in all I think that younger DMs or DMs that have less time to prepare their encounters should deviate far less than a DM that has played for 20 years through multiple editions!
#10 rexracerjr Jan 23, 2009 16:23:11	Sounds like someone played against thr BarIguara in Savage Tide....:D
#11 thrushfeather Jan 23, 2009 17:12:53	Alright here's the first knock up I've got for the Grappler. I gave him some more damage output but I think it should be inline still with low level lurkers. When I have more time I'll get a minion version and maybe some soldiers and skirmishers to use as stock troops. We'll see where it goes but I have some ideas for a controller/leader who can teleport them around the battle field as he chooses on his turn, and soldiers who can knock down charaters and keep them down. As we discussed before some allies with a damaging aura would be awesome with these monsters. And powers that significantly change their flavor after they become bloodied (enough to force a change of tactics by the players) would also be very cool. Post your ideas, otherwise enjoy the Grappler! ====================================================================== Sharcrist Grappler Inhabiting the faded edges of reality between the material plane and the Shadowfell, Sharcrist are a race of vicious humanoids with palid white skin and an emaciated aspect. Shadows seem to unnaturally cling to their grusome frames giving them an aspect of malice and hatred as they phase through the shadows. They are known to favor geurilla tactics, and despise a fair fight. They often form pacts with demons and devils, serving them as spies and infiltrators. Sharcrist Grappler Level 2 Lurker Medium Shadow Humanoid (Sharcrist) XP 125 Initiative +8 Senses Perception +4; Dark Vision HP 29; Bloodied 14 AC 16; Fortitude 14, Reflex 15, Will 14 Resist Cold 5 Speed 6; (See Feast Alone) Bite (Basic attack, Standard; at-will) +5 vs AC; 1d8 + 3 damage Special: If the grappler uses its bite attack against a creature it is currently grabbing it gets +2 to attack and deals an additional 1d6 damage. Claws (standard; at-will) +7 vs AC; 1d6 + 3 damage and target is grabbed (untill escape) Feast Alone (standard; recharge 6) +5 vs Reflex; The target is grabbed and the Grappler and the target are teleported adjacent to each other up to 6 squares away. (This teleportation does not cancel the grab.) Alignment: Evil Languages: Abyssal, Goblin Skills: Stealth +9 Str 14 (+3) Dex 17 (+4) Wis 14 (+3) Con 11 (+1) Int 11 (+1) Cha 11 (+1) Sharcrist Grappler Tactics The Sharcrist Grappler begins combat by sneaking around the edges of the battle waiting to grab a weak looking enemy with it's claw attack and then proceedes to attack with it's bite attack to kill or disable it's enemy. It will use its Feast Alone power to drag its prey behind a defensible line or into a hoard of waiting allies. Sharcrist Lore Arcana DC 15: Sharcrist are an evil race of humanoids which inhabit weak areas between the material plane and the Shadowfell. Stories tell of them kidnapping children and dragging them to their dismal realm. Arcana DC 20: Sharcrist often form pacts with devils and demons allowing their cities to be used as staging areas for infernal and abyssal invasions. They are often granted unnatural and powerful abilites for their cooperation. ====================================================================== RexracerJr: I've never heard of the "BarIguara" tell me more? Also, another little bit of flavor and story element if you're interested. I had this idea of the Sharcrist living on the east side of a frozen mountain high in the northlands, menecingly over looking a tiny out post village at the end of long winding mountain path. People in the village tell their children that if their not good the Sharcrist will come and take them away. For years no one has actually seen one, but recently livestock have begun to dissappear. Tracks can be found out side the edge of the farms but no tracks are ever found in the actual cattle yards. Mostly the livestock just dissappear, but every now and then a carcus is found torn to ribbons outside the farmlands in the mountain woods. The actual city of the Sharcrist is hidden during the day when the light of the sun shows on it. But has the light disappears behind the mountain the city slowly is revealed and the trackers who go looking for it can only find it by night...
#12 dstar23 Jan 23, 2009 19:22:23	Nice Work TH! I really like the changes you made! The new name and lore elements are very cool. I placed my version into my monster work station on my computer for future tweaking, but I changed it to your's already! I think the extra damage is perfect as well. It doesn't overpower the monster and it makes it a bit more frightening to the party if a member would be pulled away. I think I will develop my own Sharcrist monster group! We can combine our thoughts again to create some really nice monsters for everyone to use!
#13 dstar23 Jan 23, 2009 21:14:07	here is a rough draft of some new monsters! Again they are just starter monsters and need a little work before use. (expecially the Hateweaver, being a controller he needs a few more options.) Let me know what you think! Sharcrist Maniac - Level 3 Elite Skirmisher Medium Shadow Humanoid (Sharcrist) XP 300 Initiative +8 Senses Perception +8; Dark Vision HP 68; Bloodied 34 AC 20; Fortitude 17, Reflex 18, Will 15 Resist Cold 5 Speed 6 Bite (Basic attack, Standard; at-will) +8 vs AC; 1d10+3 Claws (standard; at-will) +8 vs AC; 1d6 + 3 damage and the target is grabbed (until escape) Rend (standard; at-will) The maniac makes two claw attacks. If both hit the attack deals an extra 1d6 damage Flesh Frenzy: Immediate reaction: when it first bloodies a target with an attack. The maniac gets +2 to hit and deals an extra 1d6 damage against bloodied targets. Alignment: Evil Languages: Abyssal, Goblin Skills: Stealth +9 Perception +8 Str 14 (+3) Dex 17 (+4) Wis 14 (+3) Con 11 (+1) Int 11 (+1) Cha 11 (+1) Sharcrist Hateweaver - Level 4 Controller (leader) Medium Shadow Humanoid (Sharcrist) XP 175 Initiative +8 Senses Perception +8; Dark Vision Shadow Rift: Aura 1: enemies in the aura feel their bodies being pulled at by the shadowfell. They lose the use of their minor actions. (save ends; leaving the aura after making a save and re-entering the aura requires a new save.) HP 52; Bloodied 26 AC 17; Fortitude 16, Reflex 17, Will 14 Resist Cold 5 Speed 6 Bite (Basic attack, Standard; at-will) +8 vs AC; 1d10+3 Claws (standard; at-will) +8 vs AC; 1d6 + 3 damage and the target is grabbed (until escape) Shadow Weave (encounter; recharge 4,5,6) range 10; area burst 3 (must be centered on self or another sharcrist); +8 vs Reflex; affected targets take 1d6 damage and are pulled 2 squares towards the origin of the burst. Alignment: Evil Languages: Abyssal, Goblin Skills: Stealth +9 Perception +8 Str 14 (+3) Dex 17 (+4) Wis 14 (+3) Con 11 (+1) Int 11 (+1) Cha 11 (+1)