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| #1sulemanMar 20, 2009 21:48:18 | Now, I am not terribly good at 4E yet, but I've always wanted to play a wrestler-type in DnD and it felt terribly awkward in 3.5. So I've been developing this grappler class for 4e. There are others like it, but this is mine. It's also very much incomplete, so your help, opinions and contributions are very welcome. A Grappler's attacks deal less damage than, say, a fighter’s, but allow even more movement control. Advanced Grappling Maneuvers offers all kinds of interesting possibilities. Some of the grappler's powers and tactics are pretty risky, and nearly of them require you to be in melee range. Table Of Contents: 1. Basic Information -Role and starting stats -Key Abilities -Keywords 2. Class Features 3. Builds -Racial synergies 4. Powers 5. Paragon Paths -Red Cyclone -Dread Taker 6. Feats 7. Items -Tattoos 8. Rituals 1. Basic Information: Class: Grappler Power Source: Martial Role: Defender, secondary role controller. Abilities: DEX STR WIS CHA Dexterity is the key ability for your grabs and attacks. Even the strongest grapplers will find themselves in trouble if they cannot catch their opponents. For more detail on the secondary attributes, check the Builds section below. Starting Hit points: as fighter Hit point progression: as fighter Starting defense bonuses: Fort +1, Reflex +1 Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Simple Ranged Class Skills: 3 trained skills at the beginning Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Endurance, Intimidation, Streetwise Keywords: Graceful A character with the Graceful class feature allows a character with the Graceful class feature to make an enemy hit by an attack with the Graceful keyword grant combat advantage until the beginning of the character s next turn, once per round. Impressive An attack with the Impressive keyword grants temporary HP equal to the character's Cha modifier, if the character has the Showmanship class feature. Grab The attack must be performed during a grab, unless stated otherwise. 2. Class features: Show When unarmed, you (may) use your Dexterity modifier instead of your strength modifier when making basic grab attacks. The Harder They Fall: On Paragon tier, you can grapple targets +1 size category larger than you normally could. Increase to +2 on Epic Tier. Dueling Focus Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target. The mark lasts until the end of your next turn. While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target. A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place. In addition In addition, whenever an enemy marked by you that is adjacent to you shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make a melee basic grab attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt. Advanced Grappling Maneuvers You gain the following at-will powers that can only be used during a grab. Show Shove At Will – Unarmed, Grab Minor Action - Unarmed Attack: Dex vs AC Effect: Target is pushed 1 square, grab ends. This power can only be performed during a grab. Pull At Will - Unarmed, Grab Minor Action – Unarmed Attack: Dex vs AC Effect: You and the target switch places (as per Footwork Lure), grab ends. This power can only be performed during a grab. |
| #2sulemanMar 20, 2009 21:48:52 | 4. Powers Lvl 1: Show At-Will Taunting Blow At Will – Unarmed, Impressive, Martial, grab Standard Action - Unarmed Attack: Dex vs AC Damage: 1[W]+Dex Note: This attack breaks the grab. This attack can be performed outside a grab. No Way Out At Will – Unarmed, Martial Standard Action - Unarmed Grab Attack: Dex vs AC Damage: 1[W]+Dex Effect: Until the end of your turn, the target is unable to use immediate reaction powers. Double Grab At Will - Unarmed, Martial Standard Action - Unarmed Grab Attack: Dex vs Reflex, two attacks Requirement: The two targets must be within your grab range and within two squares of each other. Bonebreaker At Will - Unarmed, Martial, Grab Standard Action - Unarmed Attack: Dex vs Fortitude Damage: 1[W]+Dex Nerve Strike At Will - Unarmed, Martial, Grab, Graceful Standard Action - Unarmed Attack: Dex vs AC Damage: 1[W]+Wis Encounter Powers: Shoulder Rush Encounter - Unarmed, Martial Standard Action - Unarmed Attack: Dex vs AC Damage: 1[W]+Dex Roughhouse: Push the target 1 square and deal an additional +Str damage. Before making the attack you must move at least two squares up to your speed. The target of the attack must be adjacent to a square you move through. Joint Pinch Encounter - Unarmed, Graceful, Martial Standard Action - Unarmed Grab Attack: Dex vs Reflex Damage: 1[W]+Dex The opponent and you may only move within close burst 1 range of each other until you end the grab or the target escapes the grab. Graceful: If you choose to break the grab, Joint Pinch deals +Wis damage. Crossover Grasp Encounter - Unarmed, Impressive, Martial Standard Action - Unarmed Grab Attack: Dex vs Reflex Damage: 1[W]+Dex On a succesful hit, you grab the target and move to his opposite side. Daily Powers Tackling Leg Hold Encounter - Unarmed, Grab, Martial Standard Action - Unarmed Grab Attack: Dex vs AC Damage: 2[W]+Dex Effect: The target is knocked prone Showman: The target is slowed until your turn after the grab is broken Vicious Struggle Standard Action - Unarmed, Grab, Martial Attack: Dex vs Fortitude Damage: 1[W]+ Dex Roughhouse: +Str additional damage Spider Hold Encounter - Unarmed, Martial Standard Action - Unarmed Grab Attack: Dex vs AC Damage: 2[W]+Dex Effect: You are unable to move during this grab. If the target moves, you move with it. Any action other than trying to escape that the target makes during this grab provokes an opportunity attack from you. Graceful: When you succesfully sustain the hold, the target is slowed until your next turn and receives damage equal to your Wis modifier. |
| #3sulemanMar 20, 2009 21:49:53 | 5. Paragon Paths: Show Red Cyclone Show Requirements: Grappler The first Red Cyclone was, according to legend, a mighty, brash warrior who sought ever greater challenges. Even grappling bears brought him no satisfaction. Once during his travels, he chanced on a hurricane that shook the unstoppable warrior like a rag doll. The warrior was humbled that day. Paragon path features: Level 11: Unstoppable Advance: Whenever you spend an action point you gain Resist 10 to all damage while moving or charging until the start of your next turn. In addition, your basic move actions and charging cannot be interrupted until the start of your next turn. Level 11: Quick lift: When an ally next to you is knocked prone, you can lift them up to a standing position as a minor action. Level 16: Unignorable presence: When you are adjancent to an enemy with your mark, your mark's attack penalty against for that enemy is increased to -4. Paragon Path Powers: Level 11 Attack: Spinning Clothesline Taking inspiration of the mighty whirlwinds, you let the force of your forearm blow spin you around, making you a danger to any and all who would approach you. Encounter - Unarmed, Martial Standard Action - Unarmed Effect: Until your next turn, you are slowed, gain +1 Armor Class and you can attack all enemies entering or leaving your melee range with the following attack: Attack: Dex vs Reflex Damage: 2[W]+Dex Increase to 3[W]+Dex at 21st level Level 12 Utility: Banishing Flat Reacting quickly in the face of danger, you spin and knock aside an attack with a glowing backhand. Encounter - Martial Immediate Reaction - Personal Requirement: You are targeted by a non-area attack from beyond your melee range Effect:That attack receives a -d10+Dex penalty. If the attack misses, you may shift a distance equal to ½ of your strength modifier. Level 20 Attack: Spinning Piledriver You grab the opponent, lift him upside down and grip him tightly, then launching you both into the air with the power of a raging tornado. Eventually, you land, bringing the opponent down on his head. Daily - Unarmed Standard Action - Unarmed, Martial, Grab Attack: Dex vs Reflex Damage: 5[W]+Dex Effect: The target is knocked prone. You may fly with your opponent for a number of squares equal to your strength modifier. At the end of the movement, you and the target must be adjacent to each other. After the attack, the grab is broken. Note: Changed the teleport to flying movement, so that the movement can go over some obstacles but cannot be abused for going through objects like walls in a dungeon. |
| #4ekioMar 21, 2009 9:49:26 | 5. Paragon Paths: |
| #5sulemanMar 21, 2009 10:35:38 | Aaaaand you've got my attention. (Tornado Rojo?!) I'll be watching this class. Zangief! Not sure why you wrote "Red Tornado in another language", but I was referring to the character of Zangief. |
| #6doneisiMar 21, 2009 11:17:51 | Great idea for a class. Spinning pile driver is the coolest thing ever. |
| #7zylo_drizztMar 21, 2009 12:25:37 | Am I to assume that the grab keyword means that you make a grab attack? Or can you only do this power during a grab? You should probably include that to clear up any confusion. |
| #8sulemanMar 22, 2009 5:11:28 | Am I to assume that the grab keyword means that you make a grab attack? Or can you only do this power during a grab? You should probably include that to clear up any confusion. Excellent point. So far, all the attacks with the Grab keyword are grab attacks. I guess I should put it in the place where the "Melee weapon" part with fighters and such would go. What would be a short and simple way to say the attack can only be performed during a grab? Or should I add the longer explanation to every such attack? Perhaps any attack with the grab keyword can be performed during a grab? This means that Taunting Blow and other powers that can be performed outside of a grab would need that specification. Also, it means that extra care should be put to the wording of the Roughhouse class feature, since they do additional damage when grabbing an opponent, not when using a power with the grab keyword. |
| #9zylo_drizztMar 22, 2009 9:30:12 | Grab keyword: If you are not grabbing then you make a grab attack. (if this is the case you may want to include a bonus to the power seeing as you don't get an enchantment bonus). If you are grabing you can maintain the grab if successful. If you intend for the roundhouse powers to work with powers then I don't think it needs to be reworded. I think that unarmed keyword is unneeded, change it to weapon and make sure you state in the grab keyword that grabs can only be accomplished unarmed unless specified (because sometimes you want to use a steel chair that does 1d10 damage +2 prof and 2 handed I think that is the stats for a great club) Also I just saw other keywords that have no description. Not sure of power balance (not good with those) You realize that the duelist feature is so much better than the fighters combat challenge. You realize that without a prof bonus to unarmed class of weapon you will either have to use spiked gauntlets (preferable because they can be enchanted) or have a difficult time to hit. Try to find an equal ground or compromise. Maybe somehow make sure that you are not allowed a physical weapon (other than your very own body) when using grab powers. give an unarmed strike that will be similar to a club and maybe come up with your own enchant thing like maybe the three types at certain levels get bonus abilities and gain something similar to the actual enchant bonus (you know up to +6) I just can't help but feel that you did not think this through. This class is kind of a one trick pony and completely useless in most situations. This might be better as a multiclass feat like the specific weapon feats where the specific weapons would be grappling. I don't know just think about it. I can tell you that as it is now I would never use it. |
| #10sulemanMar 22, 2009 11:20:10 | Grab keyword: If you are not grabbing then you make a grab attack. (if this is the case you may want to include a bonus to the power seeing as you don't get an enchantment bonus). If you are grabing you can maintain the grab if successful. You make some valid points, but you didn't read all of what I wrote, so you missed a few parts. About weapons. If you check the "Items" section, you'll see that I made magic tattoos that serve in the place of magic items for unarmed warriors, mechanically almost exactly the same as normal magical weapons. I didn't stop to consider the problem of not getting enchancement bonus to grabbing attacks, because I forgot that entirely. I'd say the grappler should get the enchantment bonus of his spiked gauntlets or arm slot tattoos to his grab attack rolls. Since the majority of grab attacks is against reflex, this could be imbalanced. I'd have to ask the maths people on these forums. I don't think I'm going to remove the unarmed keyword from any of these powers. Instead, there could be a feat of some sort that allowed some special weapons to be used in normally unarmed non-grab attacks. Note that the grappler's weapons do much less damage than the fighter's, which means that they need something else to balance it out. Also note that the grappler's "during grab" powers are nearly all standard actions, which means that in order to use them, you need to be in a grab already. The mark allows you to grab outside your own turn, which helps you to use your powers. About keywords: The Graceful keyword is tied to the Graceful class feature, and at the moment, it means that a grappler with that class feature may gain combat advantage once per round with an attack with that keyword. The Impressive keyword is tied to the Showmanship class feature, and gives showmen their cha modifier in temporary hp when they use powers with the Impressive keyword. The duelist focus class feature is rather essential, since nearly all of the grappler's powers are tied to grabbing. Do you have a suggestion to use instead of it? A marking feature is necessary for this class. Note: Updated the first post with keywords, changed powers so that attacks that are performed during a grab have the grab keyword, removed it from grabbing attacks, added the Backstreet Brawler feat. |
| #11zylo_drizztMar 23, 2009 10:45:34 | you are right, I did not bother to look at items because most things that involve a base class is put in the base class features section. I am not sure tatoos are the way to go however because not everyone wants tatoos (certainly could be reflavored I suppose) but also because in adventurer's vault 2 they will have magical tatoos. I am not so sure about the enchantment bonus or a proficiency bonus as well because I didn't know grabs were against reflex. There is a PH2 feat that give a substantial bonus to grabs that you might include instead. The only problem that I see with the duelist feature is that you want to grab which means anyone that you have marked you would probably already be grabbing which means, unless they got away (and even then it is unlikely), they will not be attacking your allies which kind of nullifies your mark ability altogether if you think about it. I don't have time to check the powers right now (going to class) but if they are all grab then you might want to include one power per tier that allows a grab on a hit or maybe make the grab powers that way and have a second effect when used duing a grab. Maybe make the dailies sustainable (I am not sure if that is allowed with encounter). Or you might want to make one of the at-wills have the effect where you grab the target with maybe the same suggestions as above. If a power targets ac then you might still want to include prof and enchant bonuses (but maybe not the new feat I told you about). Anyways I am going to keep an eye on this and offer suggestions as they come to me |
| #12ekioMar 23, 2009 17:53:03 | Zangief! Not sure why you wrote "Red Tornado in another language", but I was referring to the character of Zangief. The scene between El Fuerte and Zangief, of course. It's at 3:37. For some reason, its really popular with my group. If any NPC appears... |
| #13sulemanMar 24, 2009 10:07:59 | you are right, I did not bother to look at items because most things that involve a base class is put in the base class features section. I am not sure tatoos are the way to go however because not everyone wants tatoos (certainly could be reflavored I suppose) but also because in adventurer's vault 2 they will have magical tatoos. I didn't know about the magical tattoos in Adventurer's Vault 2. At the moment, I don't know of any other enchantment solution for unarmed fighters, aside from enchanted spiked gauntlets, but not everyone wants spiked gauntlets. One possibility would be integrating spiked gauntlets, with a class feature or a feat that made the character's unarmed attack's proficiency bonus and damage equal to spiked gauntlets'. Since spiked gauntlets don't cost that much and the attack could be enchanced with tattoos or whatever, this wouldn't be overpowered. Of course, it would mean that disarming the character would be impossible, but that comes up only with one fighter power, if I remember correctly. For grapplers, I'd rather tie their grabs to their unarmed attack, proficiency and enchantment bonuses and all, to keep it simple. The grappler's grabs are different from normal grabs, so using the same rules would be confusing and exploitable. (Yes, making grabs similar to weapon attacks is potentially exploitable as well, but let's try to deal with one problem at a time.) Grappler's unarmed grabs: Unarmed attack with prof. and enchantment bonuses, like normal melee weapon powers. Non-grappler items and feats don't affect the grappler's grabs. Other grabs: As before, no proficiency or enchantment bonuses, items and feats affect grabs as normal. I am aware of the current marking feature's problems, but I'm not sure how it could be done better. One possibility is making it like a short-range targettable mark, with the current effects. The mark is limited by the fact that you can only grapple two targets at once (one with each hand, unless I'm mistaken). The attack powers already are a mix of grabbing attacks, during-grab attacks and outside-of-grab attacks. Some grabbing attacks could indeed have secondary during-grab attacks, but there should also be grabs and during-grab attacks that are separate. It's great that you point out these problems to me, since the class is far from finished. Ekio: Ooh, I see. I only got to play SF4 last sunday at a friend's place, so I hadn't seen that yet. |