Grievous Injuries - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Grievous Injuries

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
narkeleth
Mar 01, 2009 9:17:45 I am looking for some input on using a Grievous Injury table to reflect a severe critical hit. Example player rolls a 20 and gets a critical hit, on the critical roll they get another 20 this would allow them to roll on the grievous injury table. The possible results from the grievous injury table include disabling blows, severed limbs, permanent scars and instant unconsciousness. For those of you who have been around a while think of the critical hits tables used in Rolemaster as an example ( without instant death ).

My questions:

Do you as a player like the use of this sort of system?

As a GM do you like this sort of system?

Would you apply this equally to the PCs as well as their opponents?

Any general thoughts you would care to share about this sort of house rule.

Thanks
#2
lady_ishtar
Mar 01, 2009 9:46:14 its fun if it works on monsters only. as a player, i im am going to loose an arm i want to be in some heroic way, not because of a die roll.
#3
tylara67
Mar 01, 2009 10:01:20 D&D doesn't tend to mesh as well with "gritty" rules like this. D&D heroes are expected to be in combat a lot; if you have "severed limb" on your critical hit chart, expect every character to lose at least one limb going from level 1 to level 30, probably two or three limbs.
#4
johnnii
Mar 01, 2009 10:47:45 I have a special way of grievous injuries.

If you are hit, and taken from positive HP to negative bloodied in one attack, you can choose to die as normal, or you can choose to "survive" by suffering a grievous wound (horrid scarring, eye gouging, loosing a limb). Youll be knocked out of the rest of the fight.

You'll be surprised of the vanity for majority of players, and that they'll rather let their characters die and make a new one than to keep their scarred ones, so this houserule gets to be used extremely rare
#5
narkeleth
Mar 01, 2009 10:59:41 I actually like that rule where the character can survive death but with a permanent scar etc. My players like a gritty game but no one likes to lose a character this option may well give them the best of both worlds.
#6
trailfoot
Mar 01, 2009 11:03:55 Grevious injuries/critical hit charts and D&D do not mesh well at all. Among other things, criticals are too common (5% chance every attack!) and combat is too big a part of the game.

I'd choose to let a character die over continuing to play with a lost limb; there's less penalty that way. Players will behave as the mechanics encourage.
#7
evilkobra
Mar 02, 2009 8:20:40 Here are the rules we use - it's a straight copy&paste from a Word document so the fancy formatting is gone, but it's still readable:

CRIPPLING & DEATH
 When your hit points reach zero, you are Unconscious and Dying: make a Death Saving Throw at the end of each turn until healed.
 When your negative hit points equal your Bloodied value, you are Crippled.
 When your negative hit points exceed your Bloodied value, you die.
 Each time you fail a Death Saving Throw, roll a d20. If the roll is equal to or greater than your negative hit points, you suffer one point of damage. If the roll is lower than your negative hit points, you are Crippled.
 If you fail three Death Saving Throws during the course of one encounter, you die.
 If you are Helpless and receive damage equal to or greater than your Bloodied value in a single attack, immediately make a Death Saving Throw: if you succeed, you are Crippled and Dying. If you fail, you die.

LONG TERM DAMAGE
 When you become Crippled, you can suffer Long Term Damage effects. At the end of the encounter, roll 1d20 and consult the table below.
 If you are Crippled more than once in a single encounter, roll as many times as appropriate, but apply only the worst result (DM's choice).
 Long Term Damage effects are not cumulative: if you roll an effect which already applies to your character, there is no effect.
 Long Term Damage effects can only be healed by spending a subsequently gained Feat. Each Feat spent removes one effect (player's choice).
 The description is merely a suggestion: the player and the DM can agree on a different manifestation when appropriate (for instance, a Psychic attack that cripples the character would not normally cause a bleeding wound - but might instead result in recurring nightmares with the same effect).

d20 Description Effect
1 Back pain -1 to Strength
2 Weak heart -1 to Constitution
3 Knee or shoulder injury -1 to Dexterity
4 Migraines -1 to Intelligence
5 Depression -1 to Wisdom
6 Visible scars -1 to Charisma
7 Raging fits -1 to Armor Class
8 Flinching -1 to Fortitude
9 Combat paralysis -1 to Reflex
10 Flashbacks -1 to Will
11 Paranoia -1 to all Saving Throws
12 Bleeding wound -2 Healing Surges/day
13 Severe coughing -1 HP/level; -2 to Stealth skill checks
14 Insecurity Lose one random Feat
15 Memory loss Lose one random Trained Skill
16 One-eyed -1 to Ranged attacks; -2 to Perception skill checks
17 Crippled leg -1 to Speed; -2 to Athletics and Acrobatics skill checks
18 Crippled hand Cannot use Heavy Shield or two-handed items; -2 to Acrobatics and Thievery skill checks
19 Chronic Fatigue Do not regain Action Points at Milestones
20 Deathwish Re-roll successful Death Saving Throws; these re-rolls cannot be modified in any way
#8
Neutronium_Dragon
Mar 02, 2009 8:39:43 In other words...

"Willingly die, because that way you can bring in a replacement character that isn't at a permanent mechanical disadvantage."

That's essentially the message that I get out of it.
#9
lady_ishtar
Mar 02, 2009 11:27:20 HOLY DEATH SPIRAL BATMAN!!!

and no apparent way to recover from them... yeah

i mean EvilCobra's critical injuries have a place in a game where you really hate your players. and i mean REALLY H A T E
#10
Krusk
Mar 02, 2009 12:08:46 1- No- All it ends up with is PC's who are so crippled they can't do anything.

2- No- Too much extra work on my part, and generally a huge pain in the neck. Not worth it.

3- Of Course. I might consider some sort of "If you land a killing blow you can roll a body die to show where it hits" thing. But I could also just say "Tell us how you killed him" and it would work just as well.

4- Basically these things add one more step to combat, and the biggest problem I have with every edition of DND is how long combat takes. (And I don't have any suggestions to fix it ATM)
#11
Guiltl3ss
Mar 02, 2009 15:08:08 I like the idea of a little reaslism to the game, but I could see where some players could be irked if there favorie Urk the Barbarian suddenly got his brawny arm chopped off. Of course, an inventive DM could turn it around and make an adventure to fix this issue. In face, it would be great if the player wants to come in for a small 1 on 1 session to partake of a small recovery quest. Or have the player come in an hour earlier than the rest of your session. Or just have a group quest if everyone is ok with it. It could then lead to a nice revenge quest and other good story-telling elements!
#12
psyguard
Mar 02, 2009 15:37:18 I've been testing an injury system with some guys at my local store, but it's not a very detailed one.

If a single blow dose more damage than your fortitude score you suffer an injury. For every 5 points above your Fort you suffer an additional injury.

No details beyond "You have an injury" and each injury imposses a -1 penalty to d20 rolls. People are free to make up details of their injuries if they want, but we felt that if we were going to have a injury system at all it should be simple. Added a ritual for getting rid of them and a "Push Past the Pain" to let people ignore them for an encounter when they get to crippling. Over all it's worked well so far, but we are still testing it at the heroic level.

If you want to go all graphic blood and guts, do something similar to how the Warhammer RPG worked. Replace the Dying rules with your Critical hit chart. When you totally run out of HPs Each new blow is a check on the chart.

Result; the PCs get to keep hitting things when they run out of HPs but Gory death or dismemberment could happen at any time. Cleric better use healing word in a hurry.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 narkeleth Mar 01, 2009 9:17:45	I am looking for some input on using a Grievous Injury table to reflect a severe critical hit. Example player rolls a 20 and gets a critical hit, on the critical roll they get another 20 this would allow them to roll on the grievous injury table. The possible results from the grievous injury table include disabling blows, severed limbs, permanent scars and instant unconsciousness. For those of you who have been around a while think of the critical hits tables used in Rolemaster as an example ( without instant death ). My questions: Do you as a player like the use of this sort of system? As a GM do you like this sort of system? Would you apply this equally to the PCs as well as their opponents? Any general thoughts you would care to share about this sort of house rule. Thanks
#2 lady_ishtar Mar 01, 2009 9:46:14	its fun if it works on monsters only. as a player, i im am going to loose an arm i want to be in some heroic way, not because of a die roll.
#3 tylara67 Mar 01, 2009 10:01:20	D&D doesn't tend to mesh as well with "gritty" rules like this. D&D heroes are expected to be in combat a lot; if you have "severed limb" on your critical hit chart, expect every character to lose at least one limb going from level 1 to level 30, probably two or three limbs.
#4 johnnii Mar 01, 2009 10:47:45	I have a special way of grievous injuries. If you are hit, and taken from positive HP to negative bloodied in one attack, you can choose to die as normal, or you can choose to "survive" by suffering a grievous wound (horrid scarring, eye gouging, loosing a limb). Youll be knocked out of the rest of the fight. You'll be surprised of the vanity for majority of players, and that they'll rather let their characters die and make a new one than to keep their scarred ones, so this houserule gets to be used extremely rare
#5 narkeleth Mar 01, 2009 10:59:41	I actually like that rule where the character can survive death but with a permanent scar etc. My players like a gritty game but no one likes to lose a character this option may well give them the best of both worlds.
#6 trailfoot Mar 01, 2009 11:03:55	Grevious injuries/critical hit charts and D&D do not mesh well at all. Among other things, criticals are too common (5% chance every attack!) and combat is too big a part of the game. I'd choose to let a character die over continuing to play with a lost limb; there's less penalty that way. Players will behave as the mechanics encourage.
#7 evilkobra Mar 02, 2009 8:20:40	Here are the rules we use - it's a straight copy&paste from a Word document so the fancy formatting is gone, but it's still readable: CRIPPLING & DEATH  When your hit points reach zero, you are Unconscious and Dying: make a Death Saving Throw at the end of each turn until healed.  When your negative hit points equal your Bloodied value, you are Crippled.  When your negative hit points exceed your Bloodied value, you die.  Each time you fail a Death Saving Throw, roll a d20. If the roll is equal to or greater than your negative hit points, you suffer one point of damage. If the roll is lower than your negative hit points, you are Crippled.  If you fail three Death Saving Throws during the course of one encounter, you die.  If you are Helpless and receive damage equal to or greater than your Bloodied value in a single attack, immediately make a Death Saving Throw: if you succeed, you are Crippled and Dying. If you fail, you die. LONG TERM DAMAGE  When you become Crippled, you can suffer Long Term Damage effects. At the end of the encounter, roll 1d20 and consult the table below.  If you are Crippled more than once in a single encounter, roll as many times as appropriate, but apply only the worst result (DM's choice).  Long Term Damage effects are not cumulative: if you roll an effect which already applies to your character, there is no effect.  Long Term Damage effects can only be healed by spending a subsequently gained Feat. Each Feat spent removes one effect (player's choice).  The description is merely a suggestion: the player and the DM can agree on a different manifestation when appropriate (for instance, a Psychic attack that cripples the character would not normally cause a bleeding wound - but might instead result in recurring nightmares with the same effect). d20 Description Effect 1 Back pain -1 to Strength 2 Weak heart -1 to Constitution 3 Knee or shoulder injury -1 to Dexterity 4 Migraines -1 to Intelligence 5 Depression -1 to Wisdom 6 Visible scars -1 to Charisma 7 Raging fits -1 to Armor Class 8 Flinching -1 to Fortitude 9 Combat paralysis -1 to Reflex 10 Flashbacks -1 to Will 11 Paranoia -1 to all Saving Throws 12 Bleeding wound -2 Healing Surges/day 13 Severe coughing -1 HP/level; -2 to Stealth skill checks 14 Insecurity Lose one random Feat 15 Memory loss Lose one random Trained Skill 16 One-eyed -1 to Ranged attacks; -2 to Perception skill checks 17 Crippled leg -1 to Speed; -2 to Athletics and Acrobatics skill checks 18 Crippled hand Cannot use Heavy Shield or two-handed items; -2 to Acrobatics and Thievery skill checks 19 Chronic Fatigue Do not regain Action Points at Milestones 20 Deathwish Re-roll successful Death Saving Throws; these re-rolls cannot be modified in any way
#8 Neutronium_Dragon Mar 02, 2009 8:39:43	In other words... "Willingly die, because that way you can bring in a replacement character that isn't at a permanent mechanical disadvantage." That's essentially the message that I get out of it.
#9 lady_ishtar Mar 02, 2009 11:27:20	HOLY DEATH SPIRAL BATMAN!!! and no apparent way to recover from them... yeah i mean EvilCobra's critical injuries have a place in a game where you really hate your players. and i mean REALLY H A T E
#10 Krusk Mar 02, 2009 12:08:46	1- No- All it ends up with is PC's who are so crippled they can't do anything. 2- No- Too much extra work on my part, and generally a huge pain in the neck. Not worth it. 3- Of Course. I might consider some sort of "If you land a killing blow you can roll a body die to show where it hits" thing. But I could also just say "Tell us how you killed him" and it would work just as well. 4- Basically these things add one more step to combat, and the biggest problem I have with every edition of DND is how long combat takes. (And I don't have any suggestions to fix it ATM)
#11 Guiltl3ss Mar 02, 2009 15:08:08	I like the idea of a little reaslism to the game, but I could see where some players could be irked if there favorie Urk the Barbarian suddenly got his brawny arm chopped off. Of course, an inventive DM could turn it around and make an adventure to fix this issue. In face, it would be great if the player wants to come in for a small 1 on 1 session to partake of a small recovery quest. Or have the player come in an hour earlier than the rest of your session. Or just have a group quest if everyone is ok with it. It could then lead to a nice revenge quest and other good story-telling elements!
#12 psyguard Mar 02, 2009 15:37:18	I've been testing an injury system with some guys at my local store, but it's not a very detailed one. If a single blow dose more damage than your fortitude score you suffer an injury. For every 5 points above your Fort you suffer an additional injury. No details beyond "You have an injury" and each injury imposses a -1 penalty to d20 rolls. People are free to make up details of their injuries if they want, but we felt that if we were going to have a injury system at all it should be simple. Added a ritual for getting rid of them and a "Push Past the Pain" to let people ignore them for an encounter when they get to crippling. Over all it's worked well so far, but we are still testing it at the heroic level. If you want to go all graphic blood and guts, do something similar to how the Warhammer RPG worked. Replace the Dying rules with your Critical hit chart. When you totally run out of HPs Each new blow is a check on the chart. Result; the PCs get to keep hitting things when they run out of HPs but Gory death or dismemberment could happen at any time. Cleric better use healing word in a hurry.