First things first, I must give credit to Wrecan and his blog for this. I have commited grand theft idea and added a little paint for 6 players.
Second I am mostly looking for math help for setting DCs
Third I am looking for tweaks to make these rules work a little better, I am not looking for wholesale modification of the system or why I should not use it. (sorry if that came of rude)
I am keeping the idea of X Successes before three failures, but instead of individual cheaks it will be based on a group cheak to over come each obstical. The skill used will be based on how the group as whole overcomes the obstical. This is how I calculate a group skill mod for 6 players
Group = stat + training + mech + RP + plan + risk + 1/2 level
stat= average stat mod of party
training = -2 (no training)/ 0 (1 PC)/ +1(2PCs)/ +2(3PCs)/ +3 (4PCs)/ +4 (all)
mech = +1 per feat/item/power/other that adds to the skill in the party (1/PC) (Max 3) (+1 all PCs)
RP = -1/PC +1 PC that contributes to the fun of overcoming the obstical
risk = +1/pc that passes a hard DC skill ckeak -1/pc that fails by 5 or more (may not use group skill) (may not use skill that has already successfully added to risk mod) (Making a roll is optional)
plan = -5 - +5 based on overall soundness of the plan. Use of a ritual will fall here instead of mech unless it only effects 1 PC and does so by granting skill bonus of 5 or less.
I want an easy challenge to require a 6 on the die, average 11, and hard 16. These DCs will be set considering a 0 for RP, Risk, and Plan.
I am not sure how to calculate what the average stat mod across levels will be, if a +1 or +2 should be used for training and what mech bonus I should consider.
I could use some help of the number crunchers if figuring out what to use for these values. Thanks
With 6 players you can make an assumption that says 1 with the stat in question as primary, one secondary and 2 tertiary, going by 18 in primary and bumped every chance, 16 in secondary and bumped every chance and tertiary 12 and bumbed only at tiers, one at 10 and one at 8 starting. That will leave you with a level 1 modifier of (4+3+1+1+0-1) for total of 1 1/3 at level one.
I guess the base assumption should be 1 player trained so that's a 0 modifer. (17 skills total, 6 players with on 4 skills makes 24 so a bit generous here)
Mech (Short for miscellaneous? Would use misc then
) is representing an additional player investment and I would consider this 0 as well. Rounding up for being friendly in the previous considerations base line difficulty would then be at lvl 1: 8 for easy, 13 for normal and 18 for hard.These increase at the same time as 1/2 level modifier.
The only other consideration would be stat bumps but they really doesn't mean much as it is hard to shift the average. Going by humans with an 18,16,12,12,10,8 as the baseline you could use an additional dc bump at 15 and 25. (Reasoning: Everybody will increase one stat mod at 21 and two characters wil bump every chance getting an addition 6 stat mod bumps for a total of 12, which should be divided by 6).
Comments:
You're plan modifier (and to some degree the RP mod) is the by far most deciding factor, and is a shift towards player ingenuity being the most important path to success. It's a bit counter to 4e's general philosophy in my opinion, but seems like it is what you want.
I'm not clear on how you risk mod functions. Is it a modifier to the next skill roll regardless of who, what and how?
For your mech bonuses i would rule out powers and only keep static bonuses (skill focus and similar feats, magic items, and race bumps). If a power is really relevant I would roll it into the plan mod as you have done with rituals.
For skill training I would consider making it a bit more decisive (-5 untrained, 0 for 1, +2 for each additional). The penalty is harsh for having noone having a clue as to how to approach the obstacle, and a "themed" party feel potent (all stealth makes the hard dc almost easy for example).
For stats I would consider dividing the total mod by 3 instead of taking the average (divide by 6) and adjusting the DC's accordingly. This would be 9/14/19 at level 1. Increase at ½ level + bumps at 11, 15, 21 and 25. If you want to take increasing access to mech bonusses and things like demi-god stat bumps into account you could have an increase at 5 and 29 as well.
Just so we are clear one representative of the group will make the role for the whole group. not each player making roll. I see what you are saying about training being a big thing (my whole group is trained in stealth) but I do not want to stifle the creativity or make it to easy just because lack or are specialized in something. Mech stands for mechanical bonus but misc is just as good. I like you idea about where to put powers I will go with that.
As for risk I will use an example. The PCs must cross a deep canyon as quickly as possible. They decied for a straight forwar approach and use athletics to simply climb down and back up. All PCs work hard and engage with the challenge so no -1 for RP but the ranger decideds to look for the best path down and takes risk with perception and pass, so he grants the party +1 to group cheak. The rogue attemps to squeeze through some tight spaces. This is a risk with acrobatics, but he fails by 5 so the party gets a -1. Following his example the fighter tries the same thing. He does not succed but only missed by 2 so no penaly. The other PCs do not take extra risks to nothing gained or lost.
I see your math on the stat bumps at 15 and 21. Thanks
Not sure about the devived by 3 method.
Mathius
I have each player roll a check and then we add the scores up. They need to be an adjusted DC that is just the check level/difficulty X the number of checks to get the new DC. I use this when I need multiple types of and #s of checks to complete skill check.
It's set against the easy DC because the typical group will have several people untrained/low stat in any given skill, and they will have around a 50/50 chance of passing the check. Meanwhile, the trained/high stat characters will usually succeed, giving the group as a whole a better chance of succeeding than failing.
So to be clear your example for the risk mod would be an athletics skill challenge with for example 4 successes before 3 failures. Characters could then try to do an Aid Another like thing that lasts for the whole challenge? Seems ok, but you would probably have to use the standard DC's instead of these modified ones, or it would be a bit of a no-brainer as these are lower because of averaging of stat mods. Else you could use the aid another dc of 10 + ½ level.
The skilll and divide by 3 sugesstions are meant to make a more visible difference between a group of dex based stealth trained ninjas and some bumbling paladins and wizards. Averaging the stat mod makes the stat have a really low impact.
Regarding the skill the suggestion it was based on 6 chars with 4 skills on average totalling 24 skills. With 17 skills on the list a bit more than 1 is trained in each on average, So you wouldn't see triple trained in a lot of skills. If you want to reign in the bonus in my suggestion you could cap it at +6 (4 trained), for example.