Guild Wars convertion to 4.0 D&D - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Guild Wars convertion to 4.0 D&D

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
balgarion13
Jan 08, 2010 12:36:04 I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this, but I couldn't find it anywhere else on google. If you know a better place to post this, please direct me there.

Since D&D moved from 3.5 to 4.0 edition, it has become much more mathematical and open to custom classes. Where before, in 3.5, a class was a fairly restricted set of abilities. Except for spellcasting you were limited to feats, skills, and multiclassing to customize your character. Since none of these three ways allowed for great in-class diversity, 3.5 was, as a whole, unfriendly to the open, multiability, heavily in-class customization of Guild Wars.

However, 4th edition has changed that. While many (myself included) feel that overall characterization has been stifled by the restrictions on multiclassing, 4.0 does allow a wide array of abilities and powers within each class. This makes it a much better fit for Guild wars conversions.

I've been toying with the possibility of converting every Guild wars skill into a 4.0 power, starting up classes, and testing it out to see how well it works. Balancing is the major issue, but since I didn't plan on converting anything but GW skills (making D&D powers) I think it shouldn't, overall, be that hard. Just time consuming.

So, is anyone interested? Any ideas on how to work the conversion? I've posted the first 5 Warrior skills below. Feel free to post ideas and criticisms.

New Usage Keyword:
Adrenal: Adrenal powers rely on a Adrenal Pool to activate. Each Character with at least one Adrenal power has an Adrenal Pool. The Adrenal Pool starts each encounter at zero. Many things will change the number of strikes (points) in your Adrenal Pool:
After each round of combat that your character has actively or passively participated in (DM's discretion) you add one strike (point) to your Adrenal Pool. Surprise rounds only count if you were able to make an action during it, whether or not your did.
Many abilities add strikes (points) to your pool. Some powers allow you to add strikes (points) to an ally's Adrenal Pool.
Any time you take 10+level damage you may add one strike (point) to your Adrenal Pool. These can stake on a single attack. Thus, if a level 3 Warrior took 31 damage he would gain two strikes (points) because 31 > (10+3)x2 OR 26. (I don't think this will work mathematically, but I haven't gotten it balanced yet)
Each time you use a power with the Adrenal descriptor you must subtract one strike (point) from your Adrenal Pool.
After battle you lose strikes (points) from your pool at a rate of 1 per minute.
Your pool can never have a negative value. If your pool would be reduced below 0, ignore all reduction beyond that needed to lower the pool to zero.

Adrenal powers may be taken as either At-will or Encounter powers.

New Source Keyword:
Shout: Must be able to shout in order to produce said action. Also, as you are shouting, this can be heard by others nearby. (I need help on what type of skill/check that is).

"Coward!" Warrior Elite Exploit
Adrenal 4 ✦ Martial, Shout
Trigger: An adjacent enemy move away
Free Action Ranged Sight
Target: Enemy you can see
Attack: Intimidate +7 vs. Will
Hit: Target is knocked prone.

"I Meant To Do That!" Warrior (Strength) Exploit
Encounter ✦ Martial, Vocal
Trigger: You fall prone
Free Action Personal
Target: You
Effect: You gain 5 strikes of Adrenaline.

"Let's Get 'Em!" Warrior Exploit
Encounter ✦ Martial, Vocal
Minor Action Close Burst 5
Target: You and allies that can hear you
Effect: For one round, all allies affected gain +1 square speed.
Effect: You and each ally affected gain 1 strike of Adrenaline.

"None Shall Pass!" Warrior (Tactics) Exploit
Daily ✦ Martial, Vocal
Standard Action Close burst 1
Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Intimidate +9 vs. Will
Hit: Target is knocked prone.

"On Your Knees" Warrior Exploit
Adrenal 6 ✦ Martial, Vocal
Trigger: Enemy Adjacent to you falls prone
Free Action Personal
Effect: You may activate a Stance Power you have.
Effect: Your Adrenal Pool is reduced to zero.

All relevant ideas are appreciated. Thanks
#2
wizardmon
Jan 08, 2010 14:29:23 As far as mechanics are concerned, I am not sure how I feel about a "pool" of points for powers that rely on a keyword. (Incedentally, the powers would still be called "Exploits," because the "Shout" keyword should not be a power source [since Martial is the power source], but a keyword that indicates a certain type of mechanic, like Zone or Polymorph.) Though, if the idea of this pool is to essentially allow for bonus encounter powers based on how tough the encounter is, from a mechanical perspective, that could be done.

Anyway, whether or not that is the intention, I think that these "Shout" powers and this Adrenaline pool might work best as a set of multi-class feats for Martial characters, and then perhaps a Paragon Path after that.
#3
balgarion13
Jan 08, 2010 18:40:12
Thank you for clarifying the difference between Power and Exploit. I've never played a 4.0 campaign, so my background is fairly limited.

However, I would like to ask if you have ever played Guild Wars. If not, I would point out that this is not nearly a complete list of skills. The Warrior class alone has near 200 skills, each of which would be converted in a similar way. So while the pool may seem superfluous now, it allows for easy conversion of about 70 skills while keeping a portion of the original, Guild wars balance scheme.

Also, perhaps you can clarify what you mean as a set of multiclass feats. Why would that be necessary? Why a paragon path for a class that has more than enough Exploits to be it's own class. Please remember that I intended the Exploits shown to be a sample of the first 5 Warrior skills alphabetically, not the entire thing.

I wanted to ask specifically, What do you all think of the Intimation as an attack. I realize it is unusual for 4.0 (i think?), but it was done in 3.5. Do you think the bonus is too high? too low? Remember that these attacks have less effect than a normal Intimidation check,which can force creatures to give up in the middle of battle. Also, because most of the enemies that these Exploits will be used against will have a +10 bonus for being hostile, I don't see having an abnormally large bonus as a problem. Any opinions?
#4
wizardmon
Jan 08, 2010 20:46:57 I have not ever played Guild Wars. Also, I definately recomend you play 4e a bit to increase your familiarity with the rules.

By "multi-class feats," I mean something like what was seen in this article. It is a series of feats that mechanicly take the place of multiclassing, but there is no other "class" involved, just a new set of abilities that should be available to anybody who chooses.

Now, if you plan to make this Warrior an all new class, well, then you have to make a whole class. And paragon paths. Its a lot of work

Also, while Intimidation is a bit high for a regular power, if they are a bit weaker in effect than normal powers of their level, then that should be fine.
#5
balgarion13
Jan 08, 2010 21:23:09 I have a 4e Campaign in the works, but since my group is in the middle of it's 20th (21st?) 3.5 campaign I doubt I will start it soon. until I do, however, it is nice to hear from people who know what I'm doing wrong.
Thank you for the article link, but I cannot access it. As a student I have no money.

A quick explanation of Guild Wars. Each of the 10 classes has 4 or 5 skill groups. Each skill group levels up independently. You gain access to skills which act as powers/special attacks. You can have, at any one point, 8 skills with you, only one of which may be an elite skill. You can change both what skills you have with you and what level you are in each skill group at any town for free. Limiting factors on skills include Energy, Health, Adrenaline, Recharge time, Casting/use time, Upkeep Energy cost, Health Sacrifice, etc. You must have two classes, One of which is your Primary and one of which is your secondary. You may, later in the game, change your Secondary at any town. The entire game is real-time, so all times are in seconds. many effects have constant effect, such as a 3 arrow health regen, which does not have an exact numerical equivalent in D&D. The conditions are totally different from 4e.
And to be totally clear, I have every intension of making an entirly new class. In fact, if I ever finished this one I would start on the other 9, since they would work best as an entirely distinct set.

yes, I know that making a whole class is long a difficult work. Really long, disgustingly difficult, nitpicky work. However, Guild Wars is already balanced, it's just finding the right way to convert it. Look at the page wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_warrior_... Plenty of already made skills, they just need conversion. My hope was that If I post possible conversions of a few exemplary skills from each class, and can get them balanced out, then I'll have a algorithm to convert all of the skills for each class. Should cut out alot of extra time, if it works.

Also, about the Intimidation thing. You didn't notice that "Coward!" and "None Shall Pass!" both Contain "Attack: Intimidation +x against Will". I wasn't talking about a new Power. Trust me, I understand the basics of balancing, it's the specifics I need your help on.

Thanks again. BTW I was thinking of having each classes paragon/epic be gaining the powers of another class. This would be similar to Guild Wars norm. I would attempt this until after making all 10 classes, but still that is the future plan. It would mean I only have to make 10 Paragon and 10 epic classes, much simpler.
Perhaps I should have started with a simpler skill type, rather than the broad and vague Shout skills...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 balgarion13 Jan 08, 2010 12:36:04	I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this, but I couldn't find it anywhere else on google. If you know a better place to post this, please direct me there. Since D&D moved from 3.5 to 4.0 edition, it has become much more mathematical and open to custom classes. Where before, in 3.5, a class was a fairly restricted set of abilities. Except for spellcasting you were limited to feats, skills, and multiclassing to customize your character. Since none of these three ways allowed for great in-class diversity, 3.5 was, as a whole, unfriendly to the open, multiability, heavily in-class customization of Guild Wars. However, 4th edition has changed that. While many (myself included) feel that overall characterization has been stifled by the restrictions on multiclassing, 4.0 does allow a wide array of abilities and powers within each class. This makes it a much better fit for Guild wars conversions. I've been toying with the possibility of converting every Guild wars skill into a 4.0 power, starting up classes, and testing it out to see how well it works. Balancing is the major issue, but since I didn't plan on converting anything but GW skills (making D&D powers) I think it shouldn't, overall, be that hard. Just time consuming. So, is anyone interested? Any ideas on how to work the conversion? I've posted the first 5 Warrior skills below. Feel free to post ideas and criticisms. New Usage Keyword: Adrenal: Adrenal powers rely on a Adrenal Pool to activate. Each Character with at least one Adrenal power has an Adrenal Pool. The Adrenal Pool starts each encounter at zero. Many things will change the number of strikes (points) in your Adrenal Pool: After each round of combat that your character has actively or passively participated in (DM's discretion) you add one strike (point) to your Adrenal Pool. Surprise rounds only count if you were able to make an action during it, whether or not your did. Many abilities add strikes (points) to your pool. Some powers allow you to add strikes (points) to an ally's Adrenal Pool. Any time you take 10+level damage you may add one strike (point) to your Adrenal Pool. These can stake on a single attack. Thus, if a level 3 Warrior took 31 damage he would gain two strikes (points) because 31 > (10+3)x2 OR 26. (I don't think this will work mathematically, but I haven't gotten it balanced yet) Each time you use a power with the Adrenal descriptor you must subtract one strike (point) from your Adrenal Pool. After battle you lose strikes (points) from your pool at a rate of 1 per minute. Your pool can never have a negative value. If your pool would be reduced below 0, ignore all reduction beyond that needed to lower the pool to zero. Adrenal powers may be taken as either At-will or Encounter powers. New Source Keyword: Shout: Must be able to shout in order to produce said action. Also, as you are shouting, this can be heard by others nearby. (I need help on what type of skill/check that is). "Coward!" Warrior Elite Exploit Adrenal 4 ✦ Martial, Shout Trigger: An adjacent enemy move away Free Action Ranged Sight Target: Enemy you can see Attack: Intimidate +7 vs. Will Hit: Target is knocked prone. "I Meant To Do That!" Warrior (Strength) Exploit Encounter ✦ Martial, Vocal Trigger: You fall prone Free Action Personal Target: You Effect: You gain 5 strikes of Adrenaline. "Let's Get 'Em!" Warrior Exploit Encounter ✦ Martial, Vocal Minor Action Close Burst 5 Target: You and allies that can hear you Effect: For one round, all allies affected gain +1 square speed. Effect: You and each ally affected gain 1 strike of Adrenaline. "None Shall Pass!" Warrior (Tactics) Exploit Daily ✦ Martial, Vocal Standard Action Close burst 1 Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: Intimidate +9 vs. Will Hit: Target is knocked prone. "On Your Knees" Warrior Exploit Adrenal 6 ✦ Martial, Vocal Trigger: Enemy Adjacent to you falls prone Free Action Personal Effect: You may activate a Stance Power you have. Effect: Your Adrenal Pool is reduced to zero. All relevant ideas are appreciated. Thanks
#2 wizardmon Jan 08, 2010 14:29:23	As far as mechanics are concerned, I am not sure how I feel about a "pool" of points for powers that rely on a keyword. (Incedentally, the powers would still be called "Exploits," because the "Shout" keyword should not be a power source [since Martial is the power source], but a keyword that indicates a certain type of mechanic, like Zone or Polymorph.) Though, if the idea of this pool is to essentially allow for bonus encounter powers based on how tough the encounter is, from a mechanical perspective, that could be done. Anyway, whether or not that is the intention, I think that these "Shout" powers and this Adrenaline pool might work best as a set of multi-class feats for Martial characters, and then perhaps a Paragon Path after that.
#3 balgarion13 Jan 08, 2010 18:40:12	Thank you for clarifying the difference between Power and Exploit. I've never played a 4.0 campaign, so my background is fairly limited. However, I would like to ask if you have ever played Guild Wars. If not, I would point out that this is not nearly a complete list of skills. The Warrior class alone has near 200 skills, each of which would be converted in a similar way. So while the pool may seem superfluous now, it allows for easy conversion of about 70 skills while keeping a portion of the original, Guild wars balance scheme. Also, perhaps you can clarify what you mean as a set of multiclass feats. Why would that be necessary? Why a paragon path for a class that has more than enough Exploits to be it's own class. Please remember that I intended the Exploits shown to be a sample of the first 5 Warrior skills alphabetically, not the entire thing. I wanted to ask specifically, What do you all think of the Intimation as an attack. I realize it is unusual for 4.0 (i think?), but it was done in 3.5. Do you think the bonus is too high? too low? Remember that these attacks have less effect than a normal Intimidation check,which can force creatures to give up in the middle of battle. Also, because most of the enemies that these Exploits will be used against will have a +10 bonus for being hostile, I don't see having an abnormally large bonus as a problem. Any opinions?
#4 wizardmon Jan 08, 2010 20:46:57	I have not ever played Guild Wars. Also, I definately recomend you play 4e a bit to increase your familiarity with the rules. By "multi-class feats," I mean something like what was seen in this article. It is a series of feats that mechanicly take the place of multiclassing, but there is no other "class" involved, just a new set of abilities that should be available to anybody who chooses. Now, if you plan to make this Warrior an all new class, well, then you have to make a whole class. And paragon paths. Its a lot of work Also, while Intimidation is a bit high for a regular power, if they are a bit weaker in effect than normal powers of their level, then that should be fine.
#5 balgarion13 Jan 08, 2010 21:23:09	I have a 4e Campaign in the works, but since my group is in the middle of it's 20th (21st?) 3.5 campaign I doubt I will start it soon. until I do, however, it is nice to hear from people who know what I'm doing wrong. Thank you for the article link, but I cannot access it. As a student I have no money. A quick explanation of Guild Wars. Each of the 10 classes has 4 or 5 skill groups. Each skill group levels up independently. You gain access to skills which act as powers/special attacks. You can have, at any one point, 8 skills with you, only one of which may be an elite skill. You can change both what skills you have with you and what level you are in each skill group at any town for free. Limiting factors on skills include Energy, Health, Adrenaline, Recharge time, Casting/use time, Upkeep Energy cost, Health Sacrifice, etc. You must have two classes, One of which is your Primary and one of which is your secondary. You may, later in the game, change your Secondary at any town. The entire game is real-time, so all times are in seconds. many effects have constant effect, such as a 3 arrow health regen, which does not have an exact numerical equivalent in D&D. The conditions are totally different from 4e. And to be totally clear, I have every intension of making an entirly new class. In fact, if I ever finished this one I would start on the other 9, since they would work best as an entirely distinct set. yes, I know that making a whole class is long a difficult work. Really long, disgustingly difficult, nitpicky work. However, Guild Wars is already balanced, it's just finding the right way to convert it. Look at the page wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_warrior_... Plenty of already made skills, they just need conversion. My hope was that If I post possible conversions of a few exemplary skills from each class, and can get them balanced out, then I'll have a algorithm to convert all of the skills for each class. Should cut out alot of extra time, if it works. Also, about the Intimidation thing. You didn't notice that "Coward!" and "None Shall Pass!" both Contain "Attack: Intimidation +x against Will". I wasn't talking about a new Power. Trust me, I understand the basics of balancing, it's the specifics I need your help on. Thanks again. BTW I was thinking of having each classes paragon/epic be gaining the powers of another class. This would be similar to Guild Wars norm. I would attempt this until after making all 10 classes, but still that is the future plan. It would mean I only have to make 10 Paragon and 10 epic classes, much simpler. Perhaps I should have started with a simpler skill type, rather than the broad and vague Shout skills...