Heal Skill - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gregt_314 May 18, 2009 1:43:10	Hey, we've recently had a discussion around the Heal skill rules in my game, as they relate to characters at 0 HP and below. The Heal rules as printed are (relevantly): First Aid: Standard action. Use Second Wind: Make a DC 10 Heal check to allow an adjacent character to use his or her second wind without the character having to take an action to do so. The character doesn’t gain the defense bonuses normally granted by second wind. Stabilize the Dying: Make a DC 15 Heal check to stabilize an adjacent dying character. If you succeed, the character can stop making death saving throws until he or she takes damage. The character’s current hit point total doesn’t change as a result of being stabilized.
#2 herald108 May 18, 2009 3:07:33	I agree with the DC + 1/2 level. But Stablilize the Dying is used only a last resort. If the PC has surges, why bother? If the PC doesn't have surges, then all you can hope to do is stablize them. And that wouldn't be easy. The second wind option does seem to be too easy though.
#3 koushiro May 18, 2009 3:16:45	Yes, it's easier to get a character back up into the fight then to just let them lay there on the ground doing nothing. Why are you trying to make it harder to do that? The whole of 4th edition is around everyone being in the combat and being able to be a big a part of that as they want to be. Your just intentionally making it harder and making combats last longer. Your slowing down your game and for the sake of something you feel is a problem.
#4 praedoran May 18, 2009 3:26:31	Second Wind is a 1/Encounter ability. Using first aid to heal someone with their Second Wind is only applicable assuming they haven't used their Second Wind before being felled. Otherwise, it's up to stabilize the dying. Also of note: You can use the Heal Skill to give them +2 to their Death saving throw. In case you want to try and bring him back to fighting condition, everyone with heal can pitch in and give him a big bonus on his next roll. If he exceeds 20, he can spend a healing surge and resusitate (if he has no healing surges, well, the efforts all for not, his body's at its limit). Granting him an additional saving throw might help him get up faster, but failed death saves don't play nicely. You may only be speeding up his demise.
#5 gregt_314 May 18, 2009 3:31:29	Yes, it's easier to get a character back up into the fight then to just let them lay there on the ground doing nothing. Why are you trying to make it harder to do that? Well, that's a good argument too. But if that's the point, why don't we remove Heal Skill entirely? Just read it as: players can take a standard action to let an adjacent character use their second wind (without them getting the defence benefit). That's probably a better mechanic but it does make Heal an almost totally irrelevant skill (which is to say, largely identical to the rules as printed, except saving everyone the formality of throwing a die). I'd be inclined to go in that direction except that I'd have to rebalance class skill selections to compensate for Heal being a dud. I know it has general non-mechanical uses in the same way as History or Religion, but in this area it's made redundant by any and all healing powers. eg. the party come across a beggar who's been badly beaten by goblins - sure, someone could make a heal check - or the Cleric could just use Healing Word.
#6 koushiro May 18, 2009 14:37:51	I think part of it is that a lot of the mechanics of skills aren't terribly compatible with the way a combat can work. The ability to allow you allies to make saving throws isn't a bad mechanic, but if they fail then you just wasted an action... Making it DC 10 means you succeed very easily if you actually take Heal as a skill, and you can focus on being a healer when your powers are used up and your at the, "Everyone only has at-wills left" part of the game.
#7 salla May 18, 2009 14:53:10	I think it was intentional that the Heal skill be easy to use, as it takes away the 'someone HAS to play a healer' thing that plagued previous editions. Yeah, you'll be better off without one, but this helps prevent it from being an absolute requirement.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

gregt_314

May 18, 2009 1:43:10

Hey, we've recently had a discussion around the Heal skill rules in my game, as they relate to characters at 0 HP and below.

The Heal rules as printed are (relevantly):

First Aid: Standard action.
Use Second Wind: Make a DC 10 Heal check to allow an adjacent character to use his or her second wind without the character having to take an action to do so. The character doesn’t gain the defense bonuses normally granted by second wind.
Stabilize the Dying: Make a DC 15 Heal check to stabilize an adjacent dying character. If you succeed, the character can stop making death saving throws until he or she takes damage. The character’s current hit point total doesn’t change as a result of being stabilized.

herald108

May 18, 2009 3:07:33

I agree with the DC + 1/2 level.

But Stablilize the Dying is used only a last resort. If the PC has surges, why bother? If the PC doesn't have surges, then all you can hope to do is stablize them. And that wouldn't be easy.

The second wind option does seem to be too easy though.

koushiro

May 18, 2009 3:16:45

Yes, it's easier to get a character back up into the fight then to just let them lay there on the ground doing nothing.

Why are you trying to make it harder to do that? The whole of 4th edition is around everyone being in the combat and being able to be a big a part of that as they want to be.

Your just intentionally making it harder and making combats last longer. Your slowing down your game and for the sake of something you feel is a problem.

praedoran

May 18, 2009 3:26:31

Second Wind is a 1/Encounter ability.

Using first aid to heal someone with their Second Wind is only applicable assuming they haven't used their Second Wind before being felled. Otherwise, it's up to stabilize the dying.

Also of note: You can use the Heal Skill to give them +2 to their Death saving throw. In case you want to try and bring him back to fighting condition, everyone with heal can pitch in and give him a big bonus on his next roll. If he exceeds 20, he can spend a healing surge and resusitate (if he has no healing surges, well, the efforts all for not, his body's at its limit).

Granting him an additional saving throw might help him get up faster, but failed death saves don't play nicely. You may only be speeding up his demise.

gregt_314

May 18, 2009 3:31:29

Yes, it's easier to get a character back up into the fight then to just let them lay there on the ground doing nothing.

Why are you trying to make it harder to do that?

Well, that's a good argument too. But if that's the point, why don't we remove Heal Skill entirely? Just read it as: players can take a standard action to let an adjacent character use their second wind (without them getting the defence benefit).

That's probably a better mechanic but it does make Heal an almost totally irrelevant skill (which is to say, largely identical to the rules as printed, except saving everyone the formality of throwing a die). I'd be inclined to go in that direction except that I'd have to rebalance class skill selections to compensate for Heal being a dud.

I know it has general non-mechanical uses in the same way as History or Religion, but in this area it's made redundant by any and all healing powers. eg. the party come across a beggar who's been badly beaten by goblins - sure, someone could make a heal check - or the Cleric could just use Healing Word.

koushiro

May 18, 2009 14:37:51

I think part of it is that a lot of the mechanics of skills aren't terribly compatible with the way a combat can work. The ability to allow you allies to make saving throws isn't a bad mechanic, but if they fail then you just wasted an action...

Making it DC 10 means you succeed very easily if you actually take Heal as a skill, and you can focus on being a healer when your powers are used up and your at the, "Everyone only has at-wills left" part of the game.

salla

May 18, 2009 14:53:10

I think it was intentional that the Heal skill be easy to use, as it takes away the 'someone HAS to play a healer' thing that plagued previous editions. Yeah, you'll be better off without one, but this helps prevent it from being an absolute requirement.