So I've wanted an ED that allows a player to become a dragon since Dragonborn first showed up. Now thanks to the endless joy that is Dark Sun (and I am serious about that) I have the ED except one flaw. Defiling. In my current Homebrewed world there isn't Arcane Defiling and all I need to do is change the Draconian Defilement power. Unfortunately I can't think of something that is equal to it or any abilities that allow a dragonborn to reroll an attack power.
Thoughts on a power that is somewhat similar, or just in flavor of being a dragon that works as a lvl 21 class power?
Thanks folks.
That being said, I'm actually at a loss to contribute something useful here. Maybe if I knew in what regard your setting holds dragons?
And that, my friend, would be the problem. A more appropriate name for the Epic Destiny in question would include the word "daemon;" you're not becoming a dragon, so much as a mockery of divinity. Which, in Dark Sun, just so happens to mean "dragon."
That being said, I'm actually at a loss to contribute something useful here. Maybe if I knew in what regard your setting holds dragons?
Sorry, what!? The dragon king destiny grants you low light vision, a +2 bonus to intimidate checks, stronger healing surges, a fly speed, the ability to speak draconic, an increase to your intelligence, strength, and constitution, a breath weapon, and the ability to enter a rampage in which you can react to attacks much the way many dragons can react to attacks with wing or tail attacks of their own. Everything about this epic destiny screams "dragon," in any setting.
Anyways, allow me to try and give you (OP) a helpful response. Since you want to tie this in to dragons, but divorce it from the Dark Sun dragon fluff, attach it to a class and build that already has a "draconic transformation theme." Specifically, make the requirement for the epic destiny the dragon magic build of the sorcerer class. As for the "draconic defilement" class feature, change it something like this: when casting a sorcerer daily attack power with an extra benefit granted to dragon magic build sorcerers, you may spend a minor action just prior to using the attack power in order to gain either a +2 bonus to attack or a +6 bonus to damage with the attack power. Call the ability something like "draconic sorcery."
Sorry, what!? The dragon king destiny grants you low light vision, a +2 bonus to intimidate checks, stronger healing surges, a fly speed, the ability to speak draconic, an increase to your intelligence, strength, and constitution, a breath weapon, and the ability to enter a rampage in which you can react to attacks much the way many dragons can react to attacks with wing or tail attacks of their own. Everything about this epic destiny screams "dragon," in any setting.
Oh, yes, yes, once again everything the book says is right and any other possible interpretation of it is wrong. Let's go over this, shall we?
For starters, stronger healing surges do not equate to a draconic trait. That's just one of those random things, you see, where one can look at a class geared for Arcane characters and tell they're going to appreciate that extra bit of healing. Low-light vision? If that were necessarily a draconic trait, I would posit that dragonborn should get it to begin with, wouldn't you?
+2 Intimidate? Fly speed? Once again, not solely the dragon's demesne. Demons get it, angels get it, people made of particularly gassy rock get it.
Increase to two of Intelligence, Strength, or Constitution? Hate to break it to ya, but Charisma would be the clincher here. The "Dragon King" does not get the option to gain a bonus to Charisma, and Intelligence, I might add, is better suited to come from the pit.
On learning Draconic: Useless flavor language is useless. The setting's flavor indicates that the dragon is their warped view of godhood, therefore the destiny was written with that in mind.
Breath weapons: Here, I admit, is where my argument falters. I am in no way familiar enough with the various monster entries to call on examples at the drop of a hat.
On the rampage: This, I have issues with dragons being the sole recipients. Certain demons (of mostly higher orders, such as balors or klurichirs) definitely have the conceptual space for it... why wouldn't a demon throw a homicidal temper tantrum when things turn south? That said, I'll give you the point here.
All in all? It's one of Warhammer's daemon princes, not a frakking dragon. I'll second Alitain, though, Draconic Incarnation might have the better of it for a setting without defiling magic.
Eisenritter, I really don't know why you are even bothing with this thread. Your first comment was absolutely useless and you second comment is doing nothing more then being argumentative. I for one agree with Cyber-Dave that this destiny is inherently Dragon more then anything else, and do not agree with your first comment in the least.
And really, your first post just confuses me, if you had no actual helpful input or a real suggestion then why did you bother to post?
For starters, stronger healing surges do not equate to a draconic trait. That's just one of those random things, you see, where one can look at a class geared for Arcane characters and tell they're going to appreciate that extra bit of healing. Low-light vision? If that were necessarily a draconic trait, I would posit that dragonborn should get it to begin with, wouldn't you?
No, I wouldn't. Just because dragonborn receive some draconic traits that doesn't mean they should receive all of them. Just because a dragonborn doesn't receive one particular trait, that doesn't mean it isn't draconic. Many dragons get improved vision. Having a characters vision improve as it transforms into a dragon is thematic to being a dragon. Likewise, so is stronger healing surges. It helps to get across how big and powerful dragons are (in terms of being hard to kill).
+2 Intimidate? Fly speed? Once again, not solely the dragon's demesne. Demons get it, angels get it, people made of particularly gassy rock get it.
No, it is not solely the dragon's demesne. It is, however, in the dragon's demesne.
Increase to two of Intelligence, Strength, or Constitution? Hate to break it to ya, but Charisma would be the clincher here. The "Dragon King" does not get the option to gain a bonus to Charisma, and Intelligence, I might add, is better suited to come from the pit.
What is the "clincher" here is very much up for debate. Most of the dragons have higher strength and constitution stats than they do charisma stats. In fact, strength and constitution tend to be the highest stats in any dragon stat block. Many dragons have the exact same intelligence stat as their charisma stat. So, this claim is a load of bologna. Having your strength, constitution, and intelligence increase is thematic to becoming a dragon. A charisma increase would be thematic as well. Changing the intelligence increase to a charisma increase might work better for most settings (as in most settings sorcerers will have more to do with dragons than wizards), but that doesn't make the Dragon King epic destiny a poor epic destiny for the purposes of adapting it to represent a dragon transformation in non-Dark Sun games, nor does it make strength, constitution, and intelligence, in any way unthematic in regards to dragons.
On learning Draconic: Useless flavor language is useless. The setting's flavor indicates that the dragon is their warped view of godhood, therefore the destiny was written with that in mind.
Useless arguments are useless. Learning draconic is flavorful to becoming a dragon. And your second claim is not backed up by text. The settings flavor talks about the sorcerer kings wanting to turn into all powerful beings. The beings they want to turn into are described as dragons.
Breath weapons: Here, I admit, is where my argument falters. I am in no way familiar enough with the various monster entries to call on examples at the drop of a hat.
Your argument falters on every point. Your argument is that the dragon king epic destiny works better to represent a demon than a dragon. In point of fact, it does not. It certainly could be modified to represent a demon, but its powers hit every thematic aspect of being a dragon, and do so more accurately than they do a demon.
On the rampage: This, I have issues with dragons being the sole recipients. Certain demons (of mostly higher orders, such as balors or klurichirs) definitely have the conceptual space for it... why wouldn't a demon throw a homicidal temper tantrum when things turn south? That said, I'll give you the point here.
They are not sole recipients, but they do tend to be recipients. Which, again, doesn't mean that this epic destiny could not be modified to represent a transformation into a demon. It also doesn't mean that this ability does not help to flesh out the thematic tone and feel of a dragon.
All in all? It's one of Warhammer's daemon princes, not a frakking dragon.
No. All in all, a dragon. It gains the language, frightful presence, vision, flight, physical stature, appearance, lashing tail/buffeting wings, and breath weapon of a dragon. It is a dragon. Could it also be adapted to represent a demon price? I suppose. It is not so surprising, considering that a "demon" and a "dragon" are different branches of a common mythological origin. But telling the original poster that the epic destiny does not do a good job at representing a dragon, and thus should not be used in the manner he wants it to be used, is both false and unhelpful.
Which leads me to your first comment in the post I am currently responding to:
Oh, yes, yes, once again everything the book says is right and any other possible interpretation of it is wrong. Let's go over this, shall we?
Bologna. This statement paints a false and hypocritical picture of your position in this thread. I am not saying that alternative interpretations of the mechanics of the Dragon King epic destiny, such as the "demon prince" epic destiny, could not work. I have flat out said that the dragon king epic destiny could be re-flavored as a demon. I am not saying that a dragon cannot be likened to a demon. In fact, I don't think it is surprising that there are some common elements in the likenesses of the two, because elements of both fantasy creatures come from a common mythological root. However, you did tell the original poster that his interpretation of the dragon king epic destiny as a representation of a dragon is wrong and could not work. You are flat our wrong. It does work. It works very well. In fact, that is the baseline assumption of the Dark Sun setting. The setting does not turn "dragons" into something that does not resembling a "dragon." It just removes dragons as a naturally existing creature of a fantasy world, and transforms them into the end stage of a magical metamorphosis undertaken by powerful sorcerers. The powers attributed to this end stage metamorphoses are still very draconic. Which means that with a little work, the epic destiny could be divorced from its dark sun flavor, and turned into an epic destiny that is used to represent some other type of character's transformation into a dragon.