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| #1clockworkrevengeOct 31, 2008 13:37:48 | So im getting ready, or at least wanting, to run some adventures that are very urban in feeling, but sailing and maritime adventuring will also be a major aspect. So heres my problem. I love classic medieval fantasy (dnd) but i also love "classic" naval combat; As in cannons and gunpowder. But i dont exactly want my game to become consumed with firearms. Stormwrack has an interesting option to keep bombards and cannons on ship. Does anyone else have any suggestions or ideas? |
| #2SteelMirrorOct 31, 2008 14:35:47 | There was a thread recently wherein a few people discussed how they could realistically include muzzle-loaded firearms and cannons so that they were essentially about as powerful as the PHB weapons, and didn't lead to the invention of more modern firearms. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1105494 Basically the idea as I recall it was some DM hand waving, ruling that black powder in your game is inactive when compressed, so that manufacturing cartridge rounds is impossible. Give that limitation, muzzle loaded firearms are the only weapons in use (muskets) and use crossbow-like stats to represent them. That way you can have cannons and old fashioned naval boardings with guns and swords and not have to worry about any smart@ss PCs trying to invent an AK. Hope that helps! |
| #3clockworkrevengeOct 31, 2008 14:43:52 | Basically the idea as I recall it was some DM hand waving, ruling that black powder in your game is inactive when compressed, so that manufacturing cartridge rounds is impossible. Give that limitation, muzzle loaded firearms are he only weapons in use (muskets) and use crossbow-like stats to represent them. That way you can have cannons and old fashioned naval boardings with guns and swords and not have to worry about any smart@ss PCs trying to invent an AK. That works even better when coupled with the idea presented in Stomrmwrack; Which is essentially that blackpowder is replaced by "smoke powder", an expensive, hard to make alchemical substance. |
| #4sigil_beguilerOct 31, 2008 15:27:55 | This is more to deal with actual mechanics but there is a fan made supplement for 4e all about swashbuckling. It includes firearms (including cannons), various feats, etc, ships and naval combat rules. http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/242353-4th-edition-swashbuckling.html |
| #5clockworkrevengeOct 31, 2008 22:59:50 | This is more to deal with actual mechanics but there is a fan made supplement for 4e all about swashbuckling. It includes firearms (including cannons), various feats, etc, ships and naval combat rules. -.-; I think i've got all i need with 3.5, Stormwrack, and d20 Past. Thanks but no thanks on the 4.0 |
| #6clockworkrevengeNov 02, 2008 13:01:11 | The next issue is, do i wanna go into full steampunk? If i did, i would deffinatly want magic and technology to be oppoising, incompatible forces. (Like Arcanum, if youre familliar), but im not sure how to go about that mechanicly. Suggestions? |
| #7clockworkrevengeNov 03, 2008 14:00:11 | bump for ideas |
| #8Johnathan_VagabondNov 03, 2008 14:21:30 | If you don't want inventions along the lines of an AK (or at least in power terms) I'd avoid going full Steampunk. Sure, the weapon won't be an AK, but it'll have a similar effect. If you want steampunk, I'd suggest going either half or 1/4 steampunk instead. Let there be some strange items, but don't make them normal. Turn such inventions into the work of a few deranged NPCs. |
| #9clockworkrevengeNov 03, 2008 14:24:17 | If you don't want inventions along the lines of an AK (or at least in power terms) I'd avoid going full Steampunk. Sure, the weapon won't be an AK, but it'll have a similar effect. I need help more in terms of game mechanics in a magic vs. technology, Renaissance world. |
| #10Johnathan_VagabondNov 03, 2008 14:35:35 | I need help more in terms of game mechanics in a magic vs. technology, Renaissance world. What kind of mechanics are you looking for? Something to explain why magic and technology don't work together? Or just mechanics for technology in general? For general tech, you could adapt the skill challenge rules. Two successes before one failure allows you to operate general mechanical tools. Or you could use a simple dice roll prior to taking a 'technological' action. Now, specific tech, like cannon or musket can be adapted. Someone mentioned using the crossbow rules and saying that black powder doesn't function when compressed. That's a pretty good idea that I wish I'd thought of, so I could sound smart. Cannon is something I like the skill challenge for. 3 before 2 or 4 before 2? I assume you'll add some technology skills. |
| #11clockworkrevengeNov 03, 2008 14:39:50 | What kind of mechanics are you looking for? Something to explain why magic and technology don't work together? Or just mechanics for technology in general? I have mechanics for technological items such as cannons and guns. I use 3.5 Cannon is something I like the skill challenge for. 3 before 2 or 4 before 2? I assume you'll add some technology skills. Technology skills? Probably not, other than "knowledge technology" i dont see a need to add more skills when the ones 3.5 has already fit into where theyre needed. I more need a mechanical, systemic method for creating steampunk inventions as a counterpart/foil to the wizard, and a mechanical way to reinforce magic and technologies incompatibility. I.e.: a mage on a train could cause it to derail because, his magic causing the trains parts to malfunction. |
| #12ShiftkittyNov 03, 2008 14:54:58 | R. Talsorian Games produced "Castle Falkenstein" which fused magic and steampunk technology, but I found it equally useful for germs of ideas to work in some technology to earlier eras. For inspiration on the high seas, however, have you ever read any biographies of Stephen Decatur, Jr? ;) "A Life Most Bold and Daring" (to quote the title of one biography), he even earned the admiration of Admiral Nelson. It's unbelievable stuff, I tell ya! I'm sure you have plenty of inspiration, as tales of high seas adventures are hardly in short supply, but I do recommend Decatur into your mix, if he isn't there already. |
| #13clockworkrevengeNov 03, 2008 14:56:45 | R. Talsorian Games produced "Castle Falkenstein" which fused magic and steampunk technology, but I found it equally useful for germs of ideas to work in some technology to earlier eras. o.o but thats the oposite of what im going for, i want to completely sesperate magic and technology |
| #14cornholio89Nov 03, 2008 23:59:40 | o.o but thats the oposite of what im going for, i want to completely sesperate magic and technology Me too, in my campaign science and magic cant explain the eachother so the two are extremely diverse, magic is used for combat and science is used for everything else. |
| #15clockworkrevengeNov 04, 2008 8:45:03 | Me too, in my campaign science and magic cant explain the eachother so the two are extremely diverse, magic is used for combat and science is used for everything else. In mine i am aiming to have them be two competeing world veiws. Technology always trying to outdue magic, and vice versa. That is to say technology aims to do everything that magic can do. |
| #16ShiftkittyNov 04, 2008 12:12:27 | I've had to combine the two because more than a few of my players are science fans. What I've done to limit the RW from encroaching too much on my game is to make technology too expensive for the common market. Magic is a force, not an item that needs to be manufactured, so it's easier to access. To toss in a bit of science, perhaps the magnetic fields created by all that metal moving against other metal interferes with magic or vice versa. Either security systems (such as an Arcane Eye that flies ahead of the train to alert the engineer to potential hazards) fail to work properly, or else the fluctuation of the fields when arcane forces are tapped have caused too many train derailments when the train is of a mundane nature. |
| #17Johnathan_VagabondNov 04, 2008 13:53:39 | I put on my 3.5 cap last night and did some heavy thinking. Here's the best ideas I came up with. Technology (or rather, technological items) have a Failsafe and Reliability score. Remember, always round down. Reliability equals 12 minus the required Craft Check/5 or 12-(Craft DC/5). Do not include the masterwork component DC. The rational behind Reliability is that items that are harder to create are more complex and thus more prone to failure. I'd suggest two feats for this (if the PC indeed even wants to craft). Stingy Craftsman Craft (Technolgoy?): 4 Ranks By using lower quality or minimum required items you make your gadgets cheaper, but more prone to fail. Technological items crafted by you have their Reliability reduced by 3 and their cost reduced by 20%. Perfectionist Craftsman Craft (Technology?): 4 Ranks Nothing is done, for you, until it's perfect. Your inventions are sturdy but you disgard pieces that are flawed in any minor way.Technological items crafted by you have their Reliability increased by 3 and their cost increased by 20% Failsafe is a separate Craft Check to improve the item's resistance to magical interference. Reliability equals the final Craft Check minus 20 divided by 2 or (Craft Check-20)/2. Arcane Spells, Casters, and Items all have Arcane Instability scores. -Spells AI equals the 1/2 caster's Caster Level plus 1/2 the spell level. -Arcane Caster's AI equals Caster Level. -Arcane Magical Items AI equals 1/2 their creator's Arcane Caster Level. AI also determines the Spell's, Caster's, or Item's area of effect for this instability. The area expands by two feet per AI. Thus, a 10th level wizard's AI extends out twenty feet (or four squares). A 3rd level spell cast by that wizard would have an AI of 6, affecting an area of 6 feet all around it (or one square). A magical item created by a 10th level caster would only have an AI of 5 and have a 5ft radius (or 1 square) area of effect. Now here's what happens when they interact. Since you have the numbers down, it's a simple vs. Roll. Destabilization Checks AI vs. (Reliability+Failsafe) If AI wins by 5 or less, the technological item's function is reduced (-2 to attack, damage, area, AC, or whatever is appropriate to the item) for 1 hour. If AI wins more 6 to 15, the technological item ceases to function for 1 hour. If AI wins by 16 or more, the technological item has a catastrophic failure (explodes). On the flip side If the tech-item wins by 5 or less, it gains a +2 to Destabilization checks against that AI source (for spells treat the caster as the source) for 1 hours If the tech-item wins by 6-15, it is immune to Destabilization checks from that source for 1 hour. If the tech-item wins by 16 or more, it grants it's wielder +2 to all rolls against the AI source for 1 hour (so long as it remains in the wielder's possesion). If you need a fluff reason why this happens, I came up with this. Magic is an inherently entropic force, which by it's nature defies the natural laws of the world: mathematics, physics, and logic. Technology is built upon those laws. Without being focused, magic has no effect on most technology because it is simple. However, as creations become more complex they are susceptable to the entropic effects of magic. Beginning with technological items required a DC 10 check and higher, all such items are susceptable to the entropic influences of magic. Magic can, through repeated failures against the same object, be weakened such that the technology becomes immune, or even empowered against it. |
| #18clockworkrevengeNov 04, 2008 15:27:26 | To toss in a bit of science, perhaps the magnetic fields created by all that metal moving against other metal interferes with magic or vice versa. Either security systems (such as an Arcane Eye that flies ahead of the train to alert the engineer to potential hazards) fail to work properly, or else the fluctuation of the fields when arcane forces are tapped have caused too many train derailments when the train is of a mundane nature. I have the fluff of why they dont work together, i need crunch on how to do with applying that to casting spells on technological things, and how technological things work on magical ones, etc. |
| #19clockworkrevengeNov 04, 2008 15:35:07 | Stingy Craftsman Sounds solid. Arcane Spells, Casters, and Items all have Arcane Instability scores. Solid. Destabilization Checks AI vs. (Reliability+Failsafe) If AI wins by 5 or less, the technological item's function is reduced (-2 to attack, damage, area, AC, or whatever is appropriate to the item) for 1 hour. Perfect. If the tech-item wins by 5 or less, it gains a +2 to Destabilization checks against that AI source (for spells treat the caster as the source) for 1 hours Not... as solid. I think that it should work the exact same way as earlir, that is to say, if the technological force over powers the magic one by 16+ the effect is dispelled, or ignored. The severitys/effects should be roughly equivilent. Remember, the system isnt just magic messing up technology, its ALSO technology messes up magic. However, you have by far been the MOST helpfull of anyone ive talked to interms of furthering my steampunk setting. The next hurdle to attempt (after we perfect the above) is how to go about technological inventions (the oposite or antithesis of magic). d20 Past has a good class called "inventor" which lets some one creating "inventions" (theyre basicly magic spells) that have 50 charges (theyre wands). But i was hoping to have more variety than just a 50 shot gadget. Like, potions or solves of healing, weapons, armors, etc, do you catch my drift or do i needa clarify? |
| #20Johnathan_VagabondNov 04, 2008 16:41:14 | Not... as solid. I think that it should work the exact same way as earlir, that is to say, if the technological force over powers the magic one by 16+ the effect is dispelled, or ignored. The severitys/effects should be roughly equivilent. Remember, the system isnt just magic messing up technology, its ALSO technology messes up magic. Well, here's why I did what I did when I did it back then. I figured if technology could cause a spell to outright fail, then the PC's would all get a really simple DC 10 device with a good reliability and wear it around. At that point they've got a good chance to beat most spells cast at them and ultimately, nullify them. This way, the spell will still affect the PC, regardless of their technological itemry (unless that +2 saves them). Now, if the Arcanist was casting a spell specifically on a machine, then I could see it backfiring in the same way. But if it's just the effect of a spell being cast at someone with a machine on them, then theres too much of a chance that a PC with a simple, failsafed machine will up and ignore the magic spell. I warn because I care. |
| #21clockworkrevengeNov 04, 2008 18:13:36 | Well, here's why I did what I did when I did it back then. Youre rules over all are solid and work, but i want them to be as playable and non-clunky as possible. Is there a way we can rationalize this a little so we can cut back on some of the rules? For example we could say that magic and technology, like water and oil, dont cooperate. And that furthermore, they always have a violent reaction to one another. So we can flattly forget about some one trying to enchant a gun (i can deal with that as a DM fairly easily). Im just trying to say i want this magic vs. technology concept mainly for storyline fun, so, despite this background factor forcing intself to manifest mechanicly in play, i wanna keep it simple. Is there a way we can make there be an effect while still toning down the clunkiness of the rules? A more simple check? Also, what do you reckon on the other problem of how to go about "technological items", or the anthithesis to the wizard. |
| #22eldritch_lordNov 04, 2008 21:59:31 | Youre rules over all are solid and work, but i want them to be as playable and non-clunky as possible. Is there a way we can rationalize this a little so we can cut back on some of the rules? For example we could say that magic and technology, like water and oil, dont cooperate. And that furthermore, they always have a violent reaction to one another. So we can flattly forget about some one trying to enchant a gun (i can deal with that as a DM fairly easily) If you want magic and technology to affect each other equally, but want to avoid the "PC tech shield" Johnathan mentioned, perhaps anyone touching the magic item/casting a spell/etc. or touching the technological device/using a gadget/etc. takes a small penalty? Like 1d6 damage, or fatigued for a while, or whatever, as the magic and technology interacting causes a small harmful reaction in reality. So the check results would look like this: AI wins by 16 or more: Technological item has a catastrophic failure and explodes. Creatures and objects within 5 feet per item size category above Fine take AI x 1d6 damage. AI wins by 6 to 15: Technological item ceases to function for 1 hour. Creatures touching or adjacent to the item are fatigued for 1 hour, objects' hardness is halved for 1 hour. AI wins by 5 or less: Technological item's function is halved (half attack, damage, area, AC, or whatever is appropriate to the item) for 1 hour. Creatures touching the item take a -2 penalty to d20 rolls for 1 minute. AI and Tech tied: Effects cancel out; no ill effect. Tech wins by 5 or less: Spell's function is halved (half attack, damage, area, AC, or whatever is appropriate to the item) for 1 hour. If the area, once halved, would not touch the item, or the spell extends beyond it's new (halved) range, it fizzles to no effect. A magic item effect is suppressed for 1 minute. Creatures touching the item take a -2 penalty to d20 rolls for 1 minute. Tech wins by 6-15: Spell is countered. If cast from an item, the item is suppressed for 1 hour and it's hardness is halved; if cast by a creature, that creature may not cast spells of the effect's level, and is fatigued, for 1 hour. Tech wins by 16 or more: Spell is countered. If cast from an item, the item is destroyed and explodes--Creatures and objects within 5 feet per item size category above Fine take AI x 1d6 damage. If cast by a creature, the creature can't cast spells for an hour. And to address your fluff comment... Im just trying to say i want this magic vs. technology concept mainly for storyline fun, so, despite this background factor forcing intself to manifest mechanicly in play, i wanna keep it simple. Is there a way we can make there be an effect while still toning down the clunkiness of the rules? A more simple check? ...some feats. Technological Expertise Having studied spells while surrounded by technology, you have learned ways to work magic without fear of disruption. Prerequisite: Spellcraft 4 ranks Benefit: When casting a spell, if you would normally disrupt surrounding technology, you may attempt to more finely control the spell in order not to do so. If you spend a swift action before casting the spell to make a Spellcraft check with a DC equal to the AI of the spell, succeeding on the check means you do not disrupt technology with it. Special: If you increase the cost of a magic item you make by 1.5, its user may make the same check when using the item to avoid disrupting technology. Harden Against Magic You know how to build technology just the right way to reduce the chance of magical disruption. Prerequisite: Knowledge (enginering) 8 ranks Benefit: When creating a technological item, if you increase the item's cost by 10 gp times the sum of its Reliability and Failsafe, it does not suffer disruption (or disrupt) spells of 5th level or lower. Using one or both of those feats means you can (A) eliminate low-level spell disruption if a suitably skilled craftsman makes your tech and (B) use a known DC (your AI) instead of recalculating it every time. Also, what do you reckon on the other problem of how to go about "technological items", or the anthithesis to the wizard. Let me get back to you on that one. |
| #23Johnathan_VagabondNov 05, 2008 12:37:01 | I think you can stop enchantment of mechanical items one of two ways. 1) Just say no, it doesn't work, too bad so sad. 2) Magical Items can be surpressed by affected technology on a roll of 16+. This stops a few things -2a) The player won't use a 'techno-shield' to constantly try to block magical weapons, because eventually the shield will explode. -2b) Any magic cast on the technological item will either --2b.1) Eventually blow up the item (by the resultant 16+ check) --2b.2) Be surpressed (by the resultant 16+ check for the other side). I like 2 for a reason. It means you can (with danger) temporarily enchant a technological item, fully aware that it will eventually stop being magical or explode. Two, you can use it as a plot point to 'hide' a magical item. Sure, the axe that can save the world exists but no one can find it because it's been attached to a very powerful machine and subdued. What would be neat is the creation of Magic Nullifiers. Very simple, reliable devices that attached to objects with the purpose of stopping their magic. Attack rolls, grapple checks, etc ensue. Additionally, add some special effect rules 1) AI's get a +3 circumstances bonus when actually touching the mechanical object. 2) Sorcerer's get an inherent +4 bonus to AI. 3) Arcane Casters get a +2 bonus to AI after casting a spell. Feat: Arcane Exposure Req: Arcane Caster Level 3+ You have been exposed to arcane power for a long time. You're Arcane Instability score increases by 2. Feat: Spell Instability Req: Arcane Caster Level 3+, Arcane Exposure Your spells are infused with some of your own Arcane Instability. Spells you cast have their AI score increase by 2. _________________________________________________________________ Now, if you want a more simple check. AI beats Machine by 5 or less: Nothing happens Machine beats AI by 5 or less: Nothing happens AI beats Machine by 6 or more: Machine stops working Machine beats AI by 6 or more: Machine becomes immune to Destabilization from that AI source for 24 hours. |
| #24GrimbusNov 05, 2008 16:22:54 | Just have cannons on the ship as you would like them. Historically large cannons were in use before personal firearms - the mediveal technology of your world has not developed enough for the technology to be effectivelly minaturized. Also the amount of time taken to load and fire early muskets in addition to their latent inaccuracy, meant that bows and arrows surpassed the musket in many ways. The production of cannon could be limited to a distant country that manfactures them and the powder. As such they are limited to very few ships. Cannons can produce lots of plot lines without wrecking a fantasy game. Only master craftsmen could make cannnons and they are extremely rare which means Kings would pay large sums to hire them making each cannon very very expensive - just read about Mons Meg and the Great Turkish bombard on Wikipedia - the early history of cannon is fascinating in itself. A canon would be the most effective siege engine, but an imperfectly cast one would be as dangerous to the crew as to the castle in front of them. |
| #25werralNov 05, 2008 16:33:19 | In terms of throwing a curveball at the players so the RW knowledge keeps their inventions in line how about using outdated physics? What I mean is have some theories that we know to be false as true in your world. For example people believed that things burned because they contained phlogiston. Highly flammable things contained lots of phlogiston. If magic also consumes phlogiston then enchanting a gun actually weakens the explosive reaction - both the magic and the explosion are competing for the phlogiston in the gunpowder. In game terms +1 (or equivalent) in magic affects any explosive powered weapon negatively by -1 (or even -1d3). Dispel Magic could become Disrupt Phlogiston - not only affecting magic but also combustibles - gunpowder which is dispelled will not work the same way that a magic item will not work. If you have access to the 1E or 2E DMG then there were tables for what happened when you drank two potions - you could adapt them for when you attempt to combine magic with any technology that uses phlogiston (steam-power, gunpowder). Change a few other things, so the world IS the centre of the universe and even kinetic force works how people believed before Gallileo (that there was a force pushing the arrow along and the arrow would stop when it ran out). They could still attempt to produce an AK, but they'd need precision engineering that is simply not available. Maybe a high level party could develop something by precision tooling using ultra high Craft skills - but this is a one of process - you know if it requires a DC50+ craft check for EACH PART, then they'll need to be pretty high level before they can even try and they'll be facing opponent who can deal with it. |
| #26clockworkrevengeNov 05, 2008 18:17:01 | I think you can stop enchantment of mechanical items one of two ways. im liking this one a lot, for simplicities sake. 2) Magical Items can be surpressed by affected technology on a roll of 16+. This stops a few things i think i wanna see a more streamlined/polished rule set for this concept before i make the final call. 2) Sorcerer's get an inherent +4 bonus to AI. Sorcerers dont exist in this campaign world (Likewise, divine magic and its classes also dont exist and that spell list is absorbed into the mage/wizard class. Divine magic has to be nixed off because if its truly divine/power of the Gods it wouldnt have any problem being put onto technological items. Technology and magic repell, but miracles/divine magic dont work the same way. Hence, divine magic is just entirly removed from the system, you want a miracle, ask a god. Now, if you want a more simple check. This is the level of simplicity/conciseness i wanna be at. But heres what really matters. A technologist throws a grenade at a wizard (a technological item with an obstensibly technological effect.), how does it effect the wizard, who is surely wearing lots of magical stuff. And vice versa: A Wizard blasts a technologist with a fireball spell, what is the aggrigate effect on the technologist?? I dont really want to dick around with figuring out each single items role in this equation everytime these sort of situations come up, nor do i wanna have to frequently deal with iffy time frames (non rounds/non days) on specific items that are effected. Im more looking at, how is the grenade effected, and how is the fireball effected by coming into contact with its respective pole. Get me? |
| #27Johnathan_VagabondNov 06, 2008 15:20:59 | Welllll... Magic that doesn't overcome technology recoils from it. So. Tinker the Technologist throws a minor hand grenade (Failsafe 1, Reliability 9) at Willy the Wizard (AI 9). *Roll* -AI wins by >5, grenade fails -AI wins by <5, -2 to grenade's damage -Grenade wins by <5, grenade functions as normal -Grenade wins by >5, Wally's effective caster level reduce by 1d4 for one round. Wally, enraged, responds by throwing a fireball at Tinker. *Roll* -Tinker wins by >5, spell effect is halved -Tinker wins by <5, -2 to spells attack/Save DC -AI wins by <5, spell works as normal -AI wins by >5, Wally's 1d4 lowest Reliability+Failsafe pieces of equipment cease functioning for one round. This, of course, still has the problem of carrying around a super simple, very reliable "spell blocker". But heck, maybe people know that trick so theres a big market it for it and such things are really expensive. Or maybe (here's an idea that might work well) every time you get hit with a spell that encounter, your items' Reliability is reduced by 1 until the end of the encounter (or for 5 minutes, whatever). And because wizards have a limited number of spell/day, it's inefficient to just throw spells at someone to reduce their Failsafe + Reliability. |
| #28clockworkrevengeNov 06, 2008 18:20:33 | Welllll... So all we need know are these rules in one place so i/we can look at them all, maybe even play test it a little bit. Have you put thought into the antithesis class for mage/wizard, The Inventor. I think the best way to do it would be to allow them to make inventions that are analgous to magic spells, but permanent (Some modifcation would of course be nessisary, it cant be perfectly analigous). d20 Past i think has a good answer to this question, but i want to get away from every invention essentially being a 50 charge wonderous item. I mean, i want the Inventor to make consumables(healing salves, grenades, etc), "wonderous items"/technological equipment(Weird swords, goggles, etc). And thats gonna be kinda tricky. |
| #29werralNov 07, 2008 6:51:33 | I'd generally imagine the techonological items being physically bigger. The Warhammer dwarf flamethrower is a good example - it's requires a crew of two and some insanity as it's basically one guy with a barrel of greek fire and a bellows and the other guy with the nozzle and a candle. So you get away from the "charges" style - a flamethrower for example requires 1/2 gallon per shot, so the limit is how many gallons of liquid they are prepared to lug around. And of course carrying explosive liquids carries it's own risks. They could make vehicles - big steam engines, zeppelins and so forth. At lower levels they may only be able to operate/crew and repair such vehicles while at later levels they can actually build them. Alchemical items might be an exception in that they might be somewhat compact, but healing might more be a case of pain suppression than actual recovery. |
| #30Johnathan_VagabondNov 07, 2008 8:59:35 | Dave1001's Invetor Core Class v2.0 should work for you since you're still working with 3.5. (I contributed under the name Donnavin Snowolf back then) |
| #31clockworkrevengeNov 07, 2008 10:37:36 | Dave1001's Invetor Core Class v2.0 should work for you since you're still working with 3.5. No, ive seen it, and it was a good stab but its way too clunky for what i want. I think im gonna adapt the Inventor advanced class from d20 past to becoming a core class. |
| #32southwood_wandererNov 27, 2008 11:36:49 | I would speculate that any time you "just say no" your tinkerer is more than likely to persistently bother you for further explanations. Additionally, in my campaign I find that having unexplainable occurances generally lead to unexplainable loopholes the PCs will exploit. It is always best, IMO, to have an understanding of why things do or do not occur, lest something come back to bite you. |
| #33southwood_wandererNov 29, 2008 10:05:56 | Clockwork Revenge lives with his parents. |
| #34seyonDec 19, 2008 16:54:15 | If Im not mistaken in the ForgottenRealms (3.5), the priests of Gond have made a special substance, which I think is actually called fire-powder |