Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 7thknight Jan 23, 2009 17:20:28	Well Now I have set of Tables rules that adds a new mechanic to the game and it rewards Heroic Characters....and knocks them up side the head when they do an action that's evil. I know that this being bias towards players that play evil characters or unaligned characters with bad intentions but hey it's game of heroic fantasy so here is what I got. What are they? Hero Points are an in game reward for role playing and taking heroic actions…..They represent the Hero’s Luck, their ability to avoid lethal wounds, to attempt the impossible, and to make a lucky shot… What do I use Hero Points for? Hero Points have three effects that you the player can use them for… 1. Ok Let Me Try This Again....and Again: You may Spend a Hero Point to Re-roll an Attack Roll, Skill Check, Saving Throw, or Ability Check. You can spend as many hero points as you wish in this manner. This also stacks with Elven Accuracy… 2. It Is But a Flesh Wound: You may spend a number of Hero Points to ignore potentially Sever or even Lethal wounds… 1 Hero Point: Ignore 5 hp worth of damage 2 Hero Points: Ignore10 hp worth of damage, 3 Hero Points: Ignore 20 hp worth of damage, 4 Hero Points: Ignore 40 hp worth of damage, 5 Hero Points: Ignore 80 hp worth of damage. Note: you may only spend up to 5 hero points in this manner. 3. Now I Shall Tempt Fate: In a situation that seems impossible for your character you may spend 1 Hero Point to gain a +5 bonus to the attack roll, skill check or ability check depending on the situation. Examples: Jumping across a distance that you know that you can’t make, attempting to disable a trap when you are not trained to do so, attack with a weapon that you can not wield, use a magic item that you can’t normally use, attempting a feat of strength, ect, ect. Note: there maybe another cost to using a Hero Point in this manner… How Many Hero Points do I Start With? Each Player Character starts play with 1 Hero Point regardless of level or wealth. Hero Points do carry over from session to session and there is no limit to how many you can have. However anytime you start a new character you begin with 1 Hero Point. Bad Karma!!! Should a Player Character perform an action that may hinder another character or be overly greedy, party kill or even pick fights in the party or even causes conflicts at the table you may lose Hero Points.
#2 grandnaguseli Jan 23, 2009 17:47:53	Without the rules on how hero points are aquired this system seems impossible to judge from a balance perspective. Uses one and two could be extremely broken depending on how easy the points are to acquire. It also seems to me that your bad karma rule could be problematic. Granted, it's all in how the rule is applied, but that phrase about picking fights with the party is my main concern. What if your character honestly disagrees with a plan or course of action the rest of the party has reached a consensus on? I assume you mean this phrase to imply actual party violence not arguing but it is ambiguous. Heck the more I read your bad karma explanation the more ambiguous it seems. What, precisely, do you mean by "an action that may hinder another character?" I mean the word "may" alone causes problems with that phrase. Attacking an orc may hinder another character, but it might not. How exactly does one define "overly greedy?" Does quoting Monty Python constitute a disruption at the table? That Bad Karma section smacks of a control freak DM. I'm not trying to accuse you of being one, but if this were all I knew of the games you ran (and it is) then I would be extraordinarily wary of playing in one of your games. How do your players feel about these rules? Do you play with your friends? If so, why not let them be evil if that's what they want? All in all, I believe you should give the boards more info so we can offer more constructive feedback. NOTE: I'll say it again just to be clear. I am not judging or condemning your play style or abilities as a DM. They just strike me, based on this one post, as different from my own.
#3 7thknight Jan 23, 2009 18:21:20	I know that these rules seem very controlling and I' will admit to be a bit of a control freak but the wording may poor on my part...to Hinder a fellow party member is not really attacking but are things like....Stealing an item form them when they sleep, cutting the rope that is being used to climb down into the dungeon with everybody else still holding on.....Stuff that not really Heroic but more dastardly these rules are for a game kinda based on swashbuckling campaign where the heroes are well heroes... but these rules are only used if the my group agrees to them and we discuss as a group what these rules mean and what needs to be changed as for acquiring hero points that is done through character actions...taking a hit for party member...fending off a band of orcs single handed.... running to a burning orphanage and saving a trapped child....so they are not easy to come by. They are for moments when character does something "Heroic" and not just "I kill the monster and take it's Treasure" and these rules are more suited for more cinematic campaign with a kind of Errol Flynn feel
#4 grandnaguseli Jan 23, 2009 23:43:31	Ok. That's a very encouraging answer. However, I'm not sure this system is either balanced or really all that appropriate. Why not toss aside the notion rewarding/punishing players based on the good/evil nature of their actions? After all, if you're all going to agree to play a heroic game where everybody wears a white hat this system should be unnecessary. Why not create a system that promotes a more cinematic gameplay? Perhaps you're hero points could (in place of the benefits you have already created) give players a moment of "narrative control." (As a quick aside, this idea is not original to me. I know there are other RPG systems out there that use it.) Allow them describe a grandiose feat of derring-do that they wish to accomplish and then just let it happen when they spend a hero point. For example, let's say the rogue wants to "Grab the Nefarious Duke's cape, back flip over the Dukes thus pulling the cape over the Duke's head. Then spin the blind Duke around several times to disorient him and prevent him from seeing where the heroes are escaping (much less interfering with said escape)." Rather than make a series of rolls or pulling out the old skill challenge just let them spend their hero point and move on. With a system like this you actually encourage the players to work with the style you are seeking rather than simply relying upon their powers. Heck you might find after a few sessions you can discard the whole hero point description and let really creative fun ideas just work. This probably isn't the sort of advice you are looking for, but I am not a mechanics guru and am pretty lousy at judging the balance of things on a system level. So I tend to fall back on more a more RP related value scale. Does this system promote fun for the whole party? Is it appropriate to the kind of campaign I wish to run (and my party wishes to play)? Is it more complex than I want to deal with. That's about all I'm good for, so I'll understand if my advice does you no good. Good Luck. Happy Gaming.
#5 KeeperofManyNames Jan 24, 2009 20:48:26	This is interesting. In the game that I co-DM we've actually set the groundwork for a similar system where we can gain Epic points. The differences are primarily that the Epic Points are rewarded always at the same time as an extra experience bonus, and given out Always in cases of extremely clever tactics or marvelously in-character role playing. This encourages the players generally to get very into their characters, the same way you're trying to do, but allows for a lot of variety as to how they gain the points. One of the functions of these points is that eventually all our players are going to get a spell called Wall of Text that essentially draws on their recognition that they are emulating the heroes of ancient legend. [It's all very metafictional and pretentious.] As far as balance goes, so far we've found things to be decently balanced primarily because this accounts for some of the unbalancing in Fourth Edition. Mainly the fact that it's heavily skewed towards combat rather than role playing. This reward for clever role playing rewards that aspect more heavily than the normal fourth edition books have accounted for, in my opinion.