Hex Issues - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Hex Issues

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
vebrandsson
Feb 04, 2009 19:50:49 I've been trying to figure a way to make 4e work on a hex grid system for a few reasons. First off it would make a facing system much better if you were to add one, and secondly it does make for more tactical combat, and the thrid reason is I've used a hex system for ages with 2e and am just more used to it. My initial thought is that this would be a simple task, simply replace every use of the term "square" with "hex" and that would cover it, but thats when I realized what kind of effect this would have on area effects. Useing the square system burst 3 effects 49 squares, blast 3 effects only 9. However in a hex system burst 3 would effect 37 hexes and burst 3 would effect 19. These are actual numbers, not exaggerations, and as you can see in a hex system blasts become much stronger and bursts weaker. Any simple fix that anyone has come up with?
#2
Fedosu
Feb 04, 2009 21:20:29 The simple solution is to treat blasts as cones as in this image.

5 foot radius is like burst 1
10 foot radius is like burst 2
and 20 foot radius is like burst 4
while the 30 foot cone is blast 6
and the 60 foot cone is blast 12

Square
Blast 3 = 9 squares
Blast 5 = 25 squares
Blast 7 = 49 squares
Burst 1 = 9 squares
Burst 2 = 25 squares
Burst 3 = 49 squares

Hex - including origin hex for all (subtract one hex from blasts to disclude origin hex)
Blast 3 = 10 hexes
Blast 5 = 21 hexes
Blast 7 = 36 hexes
Burst 1 = 7 hexes
Burst 2 = 19 hexes
Burst 3 = 37 hexes

So the overall power has dropped slightly, but the relative power between bursts and blasts is still still roughly equal.
#3
vebrandsson
Feb 04, 2009 22:03:08 Seems to work well enough, thank you.
#4
Fedosu
Feb 04, 2009 23:19:10 No problem. I've considered implementing this myself when it's my turn up to dm, but I'm not really sure I want to go to the trouble (and the group has so many dungeon tiles easily at my disposal, so squares are really practical).
#5
tequila_sunrise
Feb 05, 2009 15:56:53 I use the rules as-are with my hex grid and nobody has complained yet. I don't think the number of squares within an area are so important as the area's diameter, and blasts/bursts have the same diameters no matter what.

TS
#6
vebrandsson
Feb 05, 2009 18:39:01
I use the rules as-are with my hex grid and nobody has complained yet. I don't think the number of squares within an area are so important as the area's diameter, and blasts/bursts have the same diameters no matter what.

TS

Actually this is not true, in a square system blast 3 has a diameter of 3 squares, in a hex system it has a diameter of 5 hexes if you don't change the rules from how they are written.
#7
tequila_sunrise
Feb 05, 2009 21:30:01
Actually this is not true, in a square system blast 3 has a diameter of 3 squares, in a hex system it has a diameter of 5 hexes if you don't change the rules from how they are written.

How do you figure? This is how I do AEs on a hex map.

TS
#8
vebrandsson
Feb 05, 2009 22:03:00 Go read the definition of a balst in the PHB TS, when it says blast x, x is not the diameter of the area, its the number of units on one side of an area, it just so happens that with squares, the sides and diameters are the same, with hexes however its a very different story. Were it the diameter there would be little issue, however I do like the suggested cones much better to be honest, its a little more logical to be honest.
#9
tequila_sunrise
Feb 05, 2009 22:27:47
Go read the definition of a balst in the PHB TS, when it says blast x, x is not the diameter of the area, its the number of units on one side of an area, it just so happens that with squares, the sides and diameters are the same, with hexes however its a very different story. Were it the diameter there would be little issue, however I do like the suggested cones much better to be honest, its a little more logical to be honest.

*Sigh* Sorry, Veb, my grasp of rule concepts is so second nature to me that I forget that others depend more on the letter of the rules. If you like cones, by all means use cones. Replacing mentions of "side" with "diameter" works too.

TS
#10
nightwalker450
Feb 06, 2009 10:22:55 Our group uses cones as well, with hexes. The group has well adjusted to using hexes in 4th edition (I managed to sell them on switching to hexes on day 1 of 4th edition). I'm hoping the use of hexes will carry over to our other gaming systems as well. :D

The only issue is drawing square corners. Easiest way is that you have to have at least half of the square available to stand in, and then you draw your square corners using 3/4 of the hexes (to make it plainly obvious which are available and which aren't). Just takes some practice, but not too big of a deal.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 vebrandsson Feb 04, 2009 19:50:49	I've been trying to figure a way to make 4e work on a hex grid system for a few reasons. First off it would make a facing system much better if you were to add one, and secondly it does make for more tactical combat, and the thrid reason is I've used a hex system for ages with 2e and am just more used to it. My initial thought is that this would be a simple task, simply replace every use of the term "square" with "hex" and that would cover it, but thats when I realized what kind of effect this would have on area effects. Useing the square system burst 3 effects 49 squares, blast 3 effects only 9. However in a hex system burst 3 would effect 37 hexes and burst 3 would effect 19. These are actual numbers, not exaggerations, and as you can see in a hex system blasts become much stronger and bursts weaker. Any simple fix that anyone has come up with?
#2 Fedosu Feb 04, 2009 21:20:29	The simple solution is to treat blasts as cones as in this image. 5 foot radius is like burst 1 10 foot radius is like burst 2 and 20 foot radius is like burst 4 while the 30 foot cone is blast 6 and the 60 foot cone is blast 12 Square Blast 3 = 9 squares Blast 5 = 25 squares Blast 7 = 49 squares Burst 1 = 9 squares Burst 2 = 25 squares Burst 3 = 49 squares Hex - including origin hex for all (subtract one hex from blasts to disclude origin hex) Blast 3 = 10 hexes Blast 5 = 21 hexes Blast 7 = 36 hexes Burst 1 = 7 hexes Burst 2 = 19 hexes Burst 3 = 37 hexes So the overall power has dropped slightly, but the relative power between bursts and blasts is still still roughly equal.
#3 vebrandsson Feb 04, 2009 22:03:08	Seems to work well enough, thank you.
#4 Fedosu Feb 04, 2009 23:19:10	No problem. I've considered implementing this myself when it's my turn up to dm, but I'm not really sure I want to go to the trouble (and the group has so many dungeon tiles easily at my disposal, so squares are really practical).
#5 tequila_sunrise Feb 05, 2009 15:56:53	I use the rules as-are with my hex grid and nobody has complained yet. I don't think the number of squares within an area are so important as the area's diameter, and blasts/bursts have the same diameters no matter what. TS
#6 vebrandsson Feb 05, 2009 18:39:01	I use the rules as-are with my hex grid and nobody has complained yet. I don't think the number of squares within an area are so important as the area's diameter, and blasts/bursts have the same diameters no matter what. TS Actually this is not true, in a square system blast 3 has a diameter of 3 squares, in a hex system it has a diameter of 5 hexes if you don't change the rules from how they are written.
#7 tequila_sunrise Feb 05, 2009 21:30:01	Actually this is not true, in a square system blast 3 has a diameter of 3 squares, in a hex system it has a diameter of 5 hexes if you don't change the rules from how they are written. How do you figure? This is how I do AEs on a hex map. TS
#8 vebrandsson Feb 05, 2009 22:03:00	Go read the definition of a balst in the PHB TS, when it says blast x, x is not the diameter of the area, its the number of units on one side of an area, it just so happens that with squares, the sides and diameters are the same, with hexes however its a very different story. Were it the diameter there would be little issue, however I do like the suggested cones much better to be honest, its a little more logical to be honest.
#9 tequila_sunrise Feb 05, 2009 22:27:47	Go read the definition of a balst in the PHB TS, when it says blast x, x is not the diameter of the area, its the number of units on one side of an area, it just so happens that with squares, the sides and diameters are the same, with hexes however its a very different story. Were it the diameter there would be little issue, however I do like the suggested cones much better to be honest, its a little more logical to be honest. Sigh Sorry, Veb, my grasp of rule concepts is so second nature to me that I forget that others depend more on the letter of the rules. If you like cones, by all means use cones. Replacing mentions of "side" with "diameter" works too. TS
#10 nightwalker450 Feb 06, 2009 10:22:55	Our group uses cones as well, with hexes. The group has well adjusted to using hexes in 4th edition (I managed to sell them on switching to hexes on day 1 of 4th edition). I'm hoping the use of hexes will carry over to our other gaming systems as well. :D The only issue is drawing square corners. Easiest way is that you have to have at least half of the square available to stand in, and then you draw your square corners using 3/4 of the hexes (to make it plainly obvious which are available and which aren't). Just takes some practice, but not too big of a deal.