Hierarchy of gods - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Hierarchy of gods

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Phantymwolf
Mar 31, 2009 4:32:14 To a degree what I'm going to bring up in this post has been discussed somewhat. I'll start with the new part first.

First is a simple question. Is there still a hierarchy among the gods? I noticed in 2nd and 3rd editions there were. It came out more in 3rd edition when the Greater gods had more domains than the intermediate or lesser gods. In 4th edition it feels like all the gods are on the same level, and for me that just doesn't sit well. In any mythology you look at there was always a predetermined hierarchy among the gods. Some were more powerful than others. Even in D&D this has mostly been the case up until now.

Now to the part that may seem familiar. The gods in 4th edition all feel similar outside of the ability to buy a singular feat. A singular feat that gives an encounter power is the only difference between a cleric of Pelor and a cleric of Ioun. Somehow I think that there really needs to be more to it than that. Same with any class that has a Divine power source. They should play different and feel different depending upon which god they choose. A cleric of Pelor should be all about getting up in an enemy's face an smiting them while a cleric of Ioun should be staying back and having an almost controller-like quality to his attacks.

Now I know all of this can be done through role-play, fluff changing, and multi-class feats (fighter or plaadin for the Pelor cleric and wizard for the Ioun cleric), but I remember back in 2nd edtion when worshipping a different god got you different spell lists or even different class features if you were a specialty priest. Happened like that in 3rd too with the domains. So how can we bring back the clerics (and other divine based classes) of old that had a uniqueness about them based on their worship? How can we mechanically seperate worshipping a greater god from worshipping a intermediate or lesser god?

I have a few ideas, and any others are welcome. One idea is to create a paragon path for worshippers of greater gods, and give them access to 3 or 4 CD feats. Intermediate gods would give access to 2 CD feats and lessers to only 1. Now I know, why would anyone choose a lesser god with that set up? I don't know, it's a thought that would have to be ironed out. Another idea is for certain gods to give free multi-classing feats (fighter for a war god, druid for a nature god for example). The one that would take the most time would be to make a new build for each god, but that thought scares me to no end. I mean it'd be cool, but no way would I want to ever do that much work (not that I could, I have no idea how this game is balanced yet).

Any other thoughts or ideas out there?
#2
Phantymwolf
Apr 01, 2009 16:31:54 Wow...nothing? I figured I'd at least get flamed on how the god system works fine etc.
#3
akodokoji
Apr 01, 2009 19:24:51 I'm glad they relegated the difference in a gods power to fluff. It's a bit unfair to have one cleric having more/better options than another because of their god.
On the other hand I wish that clerics were different mechanically depending on their god. I believe Divine Power is going to have Domain Rules so hopefully that will be what we want.
#4
spellblayde
Apr 02, 2009 9:21:36 If you really wanted to differentiate between divine characters of each deity, you could try creating At-Will powers that are open only to the characters of one deity, and section it off like the Warlock's Pact At-Will Power. It would take some elbow-work, since you'd have to create 10+ new At-will powers for each class, depending on which setting your using. However, it could get what you want.
#5
SteelMirror
Apr 02, 2009 10:21:50 At least in Faerun there are greater gods, gods (who associate with or serve greater gods) and exarchs (who probably can be individually worshipped and grant spells, but aren't nearly as powerful as a full god). This may be a legacy of previous editions because I don't see that kind of heirarchy in the core gods. Doesn't mean you can't change that, though.

As to having a different feeling for servants of different gods, that's where power selection comes in. If as a DM you want your players to RP their cleric according to which god they serve, provide a lot of info about each god choice they have before they choose. If the player is really just interested in making a kick-@** cleric and doesn't care about RPing the build, have them make the character first then tell them which deities the build best reflects.

The point is that you already have the tools to customize a cleric, you just need to be creative about how power, skill, and feat choice can reflect the influence of the cleric's deity.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Phantymwolf Mar 31, 2009 4:32:14	To a degree what I'm going to bring up in this post has been discussed somewhat. I'll start with the new part first. First is a simple question. Is there still a hierarchy among the gods? I noticed in 2nd and 3rd editions there were. It came out more in 3rd edition when the Greater gods had more domains than the intermediate or lesser gods. In 4th edition it feels like all the gods are on the same level, and for me that just doesn't sit well. In any mythology you look at there was always a predetermined hierarchy among the gods. Some were more powerful than others. Even in D&D this has mostly been the case up until now. Now to the part that may seem familiar. The gods in 4th edition all feel similar outside of the ability to buy a singular feat. A singular feat that gives an encounter power is the only difference between a cleric of Pelor and a cleric of Ioun. Somehow I think that there really needs to be more to it than that. Same with any class that has a Divine power source. They should play different and feel different depending upon which god they choose. A cleric of Pelor should be all about getting up in an enemy's face an smiting them while a cleric of Ioun should be staying back and having an almost controller-like quality to his attacks. Now I know all of this can be done through role-play, fluff changing, and multi-class feats (fighter or plaadin for the Pelor cleric and wizard for the Ioun cleric), but I remember back in 2nd edtion when worshipping a different god got you different spell lists or even different class features if you were a specialty priest. Happened like that in 3rd too with the domains. So how can we bring back the clerics (and other divine based classes) of old that had a uniqueness about them based on their worship? How can we mechanically seperate worshipping a greater god from worshipping a intermediate or lesser god? I have a few ideas, and any others are welcome. One idea is to create a paragon path for worshippers of greater gods, and give them access to 3 or 4 CD feats. Intermediate gods would give access to 2 CD feats and lessers to only 1. Now I know, why would anyone choose a lesser god with that set up? I don't know, it's a thought that would have to be ironed out. Another idea is for certain gods to give free multi-classing feats (fighter for a war god, druid for a nature god for example). The one that would take the most time would be to make a new build for each god, but that thought scares me to no end. I mean it'd be cool, but no way would I want to ever do that much work (not that I could, I have no idea how this game is balanced yet). Any other thoughts or ideas out there?
#2 Phantymwolf Apr 01, 2009 16:31:54	Wow...nothing? I figured I'd at least get flamed on how the god system works fine etc.
#3 akodokoji Apr 01, 2009 19:24:51	I'm glad they relegated the difference in a gods power to fluff. It's a bit unfair to have one cleric having more/better options than another because of their god. On the other hand I wish that clerics were different mechanically depending on their god. I believe Divine Power is going to have Domain Rules so hopefully that will be what we want.
#4 spellblayde Apr 02, 2009 9:21:36	If you really wanted to differentiate between divine characters of each deity, you could try creating At-Will powers that are open only to the characters of one deity, and section it off like the Warlock's Pact At-Will Power. It would take some elbow-work, since you'd have to create 10+ new At-will powers for each class, depending on which setting your using. However, it could get what you want.
#5 SteelMirror Apr 02, 2009 10:21:50	At least in Faerun there are greater gods, gods (who associate with or serve greater gods) and exarchs (who probably can be individually worshipped and grant spells, but aren't nearly as powerful as a full god). This may be a legacy of previous editions because I don't see that kind of heirarchy in the core gods. Doesn't mean you can't change that, though. As to having a different feeling for servants of different gods, that's where power selection comes in. If as a DM you want your players to RP their cleric according to which god they serve, provide a lot of info about each god choice they have before they choose. If the player is really just interested in making a kick-@** cleric and doesn't care about RPing the build, have them make the character first then tell them which deities the build best reflects. The point is that you already have the tools to customize a cleric, you just need to be creative about how power, skill, and feat choice can reflect the influence of the cleric's deity.