Homebrew class concept: The Diplomat (working title) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 goujoe_the_bumpkin Feb 01, 2010 5:08:10	So during most of the campaigns that I play with friends, I find that more often then not I tend to assume or be gently pushed into the role of the party's "diplomat", as it seems I have a bit of an affinity for good roleplay and for coming up with the right words to say to talk that grumpy hermit wizard into lend his magic to the party's cause or to convince the evil assassin that it would be more prudent to strike at a mutual enemy before they strike at the party, etc. etc. After a recent conversation with some friends about this, I sort of got to thinking that it might be an interesting change from the ordinary to figure out a class entirely centered around this idea, much like the Mediator class from the old Final Fantasy Tactics game. An ambassador of the king who joins the party as they embark on the quest given by his liege, a politician who adventures to gain prestige or to garner support, a missionary who travels far and wide to spread the enlightenment of his particular faith or philosophy, the possibilities go on and on. It doesn't take much to figure out that all the classes in 4e are almost entirely centered around combat, and it certainly would be an interesting change of pace to have a character class that went against this convention, so why not give it a shot? So how would a talker fit into the battles and fights that make up much of D&D? That's what I need to work on. Here's a couple of the class features that I have vaguely thought out so far: Feature 1: the Bodyguard. The Diplomat would doubtlessly be not much of a strong combatant, favoring a silver tongue over a steel blade. These individuals would certainly be wise enough to know of the dangers that come with adventuring, and thus would seek out or be granted a loyal bodyguard to defend them from harm in their adventures. This bodyguard would operate much by the rules of the companion characters talked about in the DM's guide (I haven't read it yet myself, so I don't know how hard it would be to implement). The bodyguard would be controlled by the Diplomat player and would operate on certain mechanics such as being unable to to move more then 5 squares from the Diplomat in combat, and might have abilities which allowed them to come to the aid of the Diplomat and perhaps have abilities such as stepping in the way of attacks against them (maybe an encounter or daily power?). Perhaps it could work somewhat like the summoning mechanics of other classes as far as actions go, maybe the diplomat and guard have their own minor and move actions, but share a standard action between the two (so if the diplomat does something like a power as a standard action, the guard could not that turn, and visa versa). As the Diplomat advances in power, they may be able to take feats which allow them to take on a second bodyguard, or even more at higher level tiers. The powers of the Diplomat would be built so that certain ones are used by the Diplomat, and others by the bodyguard (with "Bodyguard" being a keyword in the power). That's mostly all the ideas I have for that so far. Feature 2: Utilities. This one's a little simpler then the bodyguard, and would simply be that the Diplomat would be able to take extra utility powers in exchange for their combat powers, so for example, a level 5 Diplomat could have 2 or 3 utilities and only 4 or 5 normal powers instead of 1 utility and 6 other powers. The powers of the class would be centered around this concept, with many of the utilities having a use in combat as well as out of combat. A few of the ideas for powers I had were things like bolstering the moral of the party or hindering the resolve of the enemy through heroic speeches and intimidating threats, another power (likely a slightly higher level daily) might be to convince an enemy to abandon their former allies and defect to the party's side for the duration of the fight through inspiring words or offers of a hefty bribe. I would greatly appretiate feedback, suggestions, or more ideas for the class as I am really interested in furthuring the concept into a fully fleshed out and unconventional class.
#2 olfactatron Feb 01, 2010 13:11:55	If you're willing to bend your concept a little bit, a kalashtar pacifist cleric sounds like it would mechanically fit the concept you have in mind. Focus on powers that don't deal damage, but instead apply status effects. You can get a very good diplomacy score. Or even multi-class bard. Here's a quick little build I did in the CB. Kalashtar, Cleric Kalashtar: Diplomacy Bonus FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 12, Wis 20, Cha 20. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 16. AC: 16 Fort: 16 Reflex: 16 Will: 22HP: 69 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 17 TRAINED SKILLS Religion +11, History +11, Insight +17, Diplomacy +17, Intimidate +15 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +5, Arcana +6, Bluff +10, Dungeoneering +10, Endurance +6, Heal +10, Nature +10, Perception +10, Stealth +5, Streetwise +10, Thievery +5, Athletics +4 FEATS Cleric: Ritual Caster Level 1: Pacifist Healer Level 2: Defensive Healing Word Level 4: Bardic Dilettante Level 6: Implement Expertise (holy symbol) Level 8: Shielding Word Level 10: Healer's Implement POWERS Channel Divinity: Healer's Mercy Cleric at-will 1: Astral Seal Cleric at-will 1: Gaze of Defiance Cleric encounter 1: Bane Cleric daily 1: Font of Tears Cleric utility 2: Divine Skill Cleric encounter 3: Command Cleric daily 5: Iron to Glass Cleric utility 6: Haggle Cleric encounter 7: Denunciation Cleric daily 9: Rebuke Violence Cleric utility 10: Cry for Mercy
#3 goujoe_the_bumpkin Feb 01, 2010 14:27:01	Hmm... while I do appreciate the suggestion, a cleric, even a pacifist one, is far from the concept I am going for. I know most people on these forums more often then not just tell people trying to come up with something homebrew to simply go with something in the books, but I'm pretty set on at the very least attempting to flesh out something unique here. If the homebrew class doesn't work, I'll settle with something from the books, but I'm going to keep working on the Diplomat. Besides, nothing would ever get in to the new books or D&D magazines if people didn't take the time and effort of build and balance interesting new homebrew stuff. I suppose what I'm saying is that no, I'm not going to settle for something in the books until I give this the best shot I can.
#4 ekio Feb 01, 2010 20:32:20	I'd suggest warlord. But maybe less of a weapon using warlord and more of a "hey, there's a weak spot, stab him in the gut" kind of warlord. Maybe instead of making a new class, a new build for an existing class is in order? Diplomatic Warlord. Haha. It would be kind of cool if he used light blades primarily. Dress daggers and such.
#5 goujoe_the_bumpkin Feb 02, 2010 5:51:36	I'd suggest warlord. But maybe less of a weapon using warlord and more of a "hey, there's a weak spot, stab him in the gut" kind of warlord. Maybe instead of making a new class, a new build for an existing class is in order? Diplomatic Warlord. Haha. It would be kind of cool if he used light blades primarily. Dress daggers and such. I don't think you're getting the point of this... The idea is to make a class for a non-combatant character. Not just a character who fights a little bit less then the others in the party. The whole reason I'm doing this is that I want to make something unique and seperate from what they have in the books. Hmm, maybe these forums aren't the best place to get help with this, I'll just keep ironing it out with my DM. I'll post updates as we flesh things out.
#6 ekio Feb 02, 2010 10:25:37	I was just suggesting an indirect combatant. Someone who personally never gets their hands dirty. Not fighting is more of a character choice. Your call though.
#7 countesskathleen Feb 02, 2010 12:46:57	I would refrain from the bodyguard thing. To me it seems like splitting your character in half. You'd want to control your non-combatant diplomat character and have an additional character doing the fighting. Now basically I don't consider a true non-combatant a viable option in generic D&D settings but I have the feeling, that you don't actually long for a character who'd be entirely useless in battle and so this might work though. To roll with this, I'll advise you to read up every attack power you can find that doesn't inflict any damage and use those as a guideline for powers that your diplomat class may learn. Inflicting status effects comes to mind, your character could perhaps have an at-will that dazes an enemy for instance. Since non-damaging status effects are a pretty narrow line to pursue, you'll need some more rhethorical ammo to sling around. Confounding enemies and make them resort to only basic attacks, blocking recharges, negating resistances and immunities all could be viable effects for non-combaty-style powers. Still, if you find, that dealing damage isn't entirely out of line, psychic damage comes to mind which easily fits the spot of hurting enemies without flinging magic powers or sharp bits of metal. Finally, a lot of leaderly augments for allies should float your boat. Like think the Warlord's Leading Strike minus the damage part. I wouldn't mess with the power setup in general. You get your stick anyway as many of the attack powers that you'll design effectively work similar to Utilities. Working with your class features, you should think of a way to adapt the magic item slots to your class. I'd suggest working with a new type of class-specific implement, cloth armor and neck slot as is. You'll find a few items to fit the latter two slots and still be pretty true to your character vision. An unarmored AC-bonus like the Avenger has, should work here. Since the class sounds like a leader overall, you might want to add healing too (the inspiring warlord also does it just by making speeches). If you are set with your bodyguard idea, I'd treat that similar to a summoning wizard, use your feats and powers to make your bodyguard fight better.
#8 chaosfang Feb 02, 2010 19:58:13	Actually I'd suggest a Half-Elf Bard. There's a Bard Paragon Path that's almost completely Diplomat-oriented. Show ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== level 11 Half-Elf, Bard, Half-Elf Emissary Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor Background: Society - Noble (+2 to Diplomacy) FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 9, Con 20, Dex 14, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 22. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 15, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 17. AC: 17 Fort: 20 Reflex: 18 Will: 22 HP: 82 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 20 TRAINED SKILLS Arcana +10, Insight +12, Intimidate +16, Bluff +16, Diplomacy +27 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +8, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +11, Heal +6, History +6, Nature +6, Perception +6, Religion +6, Stealth +8, Streetwise +14, Thievery +8, Athletics +5 FEATS Bard: Ritual Caster Level 1: Friendly Deception Level 2: Dual Implement Spellcaster Level 4: Arcane Familiar Level 6: Radiant Soul Level 8: Restful Healing Level 10: Skill Focus (Diplomacy) Level 11: Versatile Master POWERS Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery Bard at-will 1: Cutting Words Dilettante: Hellish Rebuke Bard encounter 1: Fast Friends Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout Bard utility 2: Soothing Words Bard encounter 3: Charger's Call Bard daily 5: Vigorous Cadence Bard utility 6: Haggle Bard encounter 7: Timely Distraction Bard daily 9: Wail of Anguish Bard utility 10: Cry for Mercy ITEMS Ritual Book ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
#9 saethone Feb 02, 2010 20:15:46	I have a player doing this in my 3e campaign. He made a bard, he took the feat for combat expertise so he puts all his attack bonus to his AC. he doesn't wear armor or carry a weapon, and generally fights by convincing the enemies minions that they should be working for him instead of the enemy. You may want to look to that for inspiration - bards inspiring word ability, and combat powers that basically shake the enemies faith in their beleifs (or job, depending on level of involvement) giving a debuff, or follow you completely, or give you abilities that protect you from your enemies (since you're not doing any damage output your combat difficulty will be off, you'll need a way to not get the rest of your team murdered)

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

goujoe_the_bumpkin

Feb 01, 2010 5:08:10

So during most of the campaigns that I play with friends, I find that more often then not I tend to assume or be gently pushed into the role of the party's "diplomat", as it seems I have a bit of an affinity for good roleplay and for coming up with the right words to say to talk that grumpy hermit wizard into lend his magic to the party's cause or to convince the evil assassin that it would be more prudent to strike at a mutual enemy before they strike at the party, etc. etc.

After a recent conversation with some friends about this, I sort of got to thinking that it might be an interesting change from the ordinary to figure out a class entirely centered around this idea, much like the Mediator class from the old Final Fantasy Tactics game. An ambassador of the king who joins the party as they embark on the quest given by his liege, a politician who adventures to gain prestige or to garner support, a missionary who travels far and wide to spread the enlightenment of his particular faith or philosophy, the possibilities go on and on. It doesn't take much to figure out that all the classes in 4e are almost entirely centered around combat, and it certainly would be an interesting change of pace to have a character class that went against this convention, so why not give it a shot?

So how would a talker fit into the battles and fights that make up much of D&D? That's what I need to work on. Here's a couple of the class features that I have vaguely thought out so far:

Feature 1: the Bodyguard. The Diplomat would doubtlessly be not much of a strong combatant, favoring a silver tongue over a steel blade. These individuals would certainly be wise enough to know of the dangers that come with adventuring, and thus would seek out or be granted a loyal bodyguard to defend them from harm in their adventures. This bodyguard would operate much by the rules of the companion characters talked about in the DM's guide (I haven't read it yet myself, so I don't know how hard it would be to implement). The bodyguard would be controlled by the Diplomat player and would operate on certain mechanics such as being unable to to move more then 5 squares from the Diplomat in combat, and might have abilities which allowed them to come to the aid of the Diplomat and perhaps have abilities such as stepping in the way of attacks against them (maybe an encounter or daily power?). Perhaps it could work somewhat like the summoning mechanics of other classes as far as actions go, maybe the diplomat and guard have their own minor and move actions, but share a standard action between the two (so if the diplomat does something like a power as a standard action, the guard could not that turn, and visa versa). As the Diplomat advances in power, they may be able to take feats which allow them to take on a second bodyguard, or even more at higher level tiers. The powers of the Diplomat would be built so that certain ones are used by the Diplomat, and others by the bodyguard (with "Bodyguard" being a keyword in the power). That's mostly all the ideas I have for that so far.

Feature 2: Utilities. This one's a little simpler then the bodyguard, and would simply be that the Diplomat would be able to take extra utility powers in exchange for their combat powers, so for example, a level 5 Diplomat could have 2 or 3 utilities and only 4 or 5 normal powers instead of 1 utility and 6 other powers. The powers of the class would be centered around this concept, with many of the utilities having a use in combat as well as out of combat.

A few of the ideas for powers I had were things like bolstering the moral of the party or hindering the resolve of the enemy through heroic speeches and intimidating threats, another power (likely a slightly higher level daily) might be to convince an enemy to abandon their former allies and defect to the party's side for the duration of the fight through inspiring words or offers of a hefty bribe.

I would greatly appretiate feedback, suggestions, or more ideas for the class as I am really interested in furthuring the concept into a fully fleshed out and unconventional class.

olfactatron

Feb 01, 2010 13:11:55

If you're willing to bend your concept a little bit, a kalashtar pacifist cleric sounds like it would mechanically fit the concept you have in mind.

Focus on powers that don't deal damage, but instead apply status effects. You can get a very good diplomacy score. Or even multi-class bard.
Here's a quick little build I did in the CB.

Kalashtar, Cleric Kalashtar: Diplomacy Bonus
FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 12, Wis 20, Cha 20.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 16.

AC: 16 Fort: 16 Reflex: 16 Will: 22HP: 69 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 17
TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +11, History +11, Insight +17, Diplomacy +17, Intimidate +15
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +6, Bluff +10, Dungeoneering +10, Endurance +6, Heal +10, Nature +10, Perception +10, Stealth +5, Streetwise +10, Thievery +5, Athletics +4
FEATS Cleric: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Pacifist Healer
Level 2: Defensive Healing Word
Level 4: Bardic Dilettante
Level 6: Implement Expertise (holy symbol)
Level 8: Shielding Word
Level 10: Healer's Implement
POWERS
Channel Divinity: Healer's Mercy
Cleric at-will 1: Astral Seal
Cleric at-will 1: Gaze of Defiance
Cleric encounter 1: Bane
Cleric daily 1: Font of Tears
Cleric utility 2: Divine Skill
Cleric encounter 3: Command
Cleric daily 5: Iron to Glass
Cleric utility 6: Haggle
Cleric encounter 7: Denunciation
Cleric daily 9: Rebuke Violence
Cleric utility 10: Cry for Mercy

goujoe_the_bumpkin

Feb 01, 2010 14:27:01

Hmm... while I do appreciate the suggestion, a cleric, even a pacifist one, is far from the concept I am going for. I know most people on these forums more often then not just tell people trying to come up with something homebrew to simply go with something in the books, but I'm pretty set on at the very least attempting to flesh out something unique here. If the homebrew class doesn't work, I'll settle with something from the books, but I'm going to keep working on the Diplomat. Besides, nothing would ever get in to the new books or D&D magazines if people didn't take the time and effort of build and balance interesting new homebrew stuff. I suppose what I'm saying is that no, I'm not going to settle for something in the books until I give this the best shot I can.

ekio

Feb 01, 2010 20:32:20

I'd suggest warlord. But maybe less of a weapon using warlord and more of a "hey, there's a weak spot, stab him in the gut" kind of warlord.

Maybe instead of making a new class, a new build for an existing class is in order?

Diplomatic Warlord. Haha. It would be kind of cool if he used light blades primarily. Dress daggers and such.

goujoe_the_bumpkin

Feb 02, 2010 5:51:36

I'd suggest warlord. But maybe less of a weapon using warlord and more of a "hey, there's a weak spot, stab him in the gut" kind of warlord.

Maybe instead of making a new class, a new build for an existing class is in order?

Diplomatic Warlord. Haha. It would be kind of cool if he used light blades primarily. Dress daggers and such.

I don't think you're getting the point of this...

The idea is to make a class for a non-combatant character. Not just a character who fights a little bit less then the others in the party. The whole reason I'm doing this is that I want to make something unique and seperate from what they have in the books. Hmm, maybe these forums aren't the best place to get help with this, I'll just keep ironing it out with my DM. I'll post updates as we flesh things out.

ekio

Feb 02, 2010 10:25:37

I was just suggesting an indirect combatant. Someone who personally never gets their hands dirty.

Not fighting is more of a character choice. Your call though.

countesskathleen

Feb 02, 2010 12:46:57

I would refrain from the bodyguard thing. To me it seems like splitting your character in half. You'd want to control your non-combatant diplomat character and have an additional character doing the fighting.

Now basically I don't consider a true non-combatant a viable option in generic D&D settings but I have the feeling, that you don't actually long for a character who'd be entirely useless in battle and so this might work though.

To roll with this, I'll advise you to read up every attack power you can find that doesn't inflict any damage and use those as a guideline for powers that your diplomat class may learn. Inflicting status effects comes to mind, your character could perhaps have an at-will that dazes an enemy for instance.

Since non-damaging status effects are a pretty narrow line to pursue, you'll need some more rhethorical ammo to sling around. Confounding enemies and make them resort to only basic attacks, blocking recharges, negating resistances and immunities all could be viable effects for non-combaty-style powers.

Still, if you find, that dealing damage isn't entirely out of line, psychic damage comes to mind which easily fits the spot of hurting enemies without flinging magic powers or sharp bits of metal.

Finally, a lot of leaderly augments for allies should float your boat. Like think the Warlord's Leading Strike minus the damage part.

I wouldn't mess with the power setup in general. You get your stick anyway as many of the attack powers that you'll design effectively work similar to Utilities.

Working with your class features, you should think of a way to adapt the magic item slots to your class. I'd suggest working with a new type of class-specific implement, cloth armor and neck slot as is. You'll find a few items to fit the latter two slots and still be pretty true to your character vision.
An unarmored AC-bonus like the Avenger has, should work here.
Since the class sounds like a leader overall, you might want to add healing too (the inspiring warlord also does it just by making speeches).

If you are set with your bodyguard idea, I'd treat that similar to a summoning wizard, use your feats and powers to make your bodyguard fight better.

chaosfang

Feb 02, 2010 19:58:13

Actually I'd suggest a Half-Elf Bard. There's a Bard Paragon Path that's almost completely Diplomat-oriented.

Show

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 11
Half-Elf, Bard, Half-Elf Emissary
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Background: Society - Noble (+2 to Diplomacy)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 20, Dex 14, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 22.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 17.

AC: 17 Fort: 20 Reflex: 18 Will: 22
HP: 82 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 20

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +10, Insight +12, Intimidate +16, Bluff +16, Diplomacy +27

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +11, Heal +6, History +6, Nature +6, Perception +6, Religion +6, Stealth +8, Streetwise +14, Thievery +8, Athletics +5

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Friendly Deception
Level 2: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 4: Arcane Familiar
Level 6: Radiant Soul
Level 8: Restful Healing
Level 10: Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Level 11: Versatile Master

POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery
Bard at-will 1: Cutting Words
Dilettante: Hellish Rebuke
Bard encounter 1: Fast Friends
Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout
Bard utility 2: Soothing Words
Bard encounter 3: Charger's Call
Bard daily 5: Vigorous Cadence
Bard utility 6: Haggle
Bard encounter 7: Timely Distraction
Bard daily 9: Wail of Anguish
Bard utility 10: Cry for Mercy

ITEMS
Ritual Book
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

saethone

Feb 02, 2010 20:15:46

I have a player doing this in my 3e campaign. He made a bard, he took the feat for combat expertise so he puts all his attack bonus to his AC. he doesn't wear armor or carry a weapon, and generally fights by convincing the enemies minions that they should be working for him instead of the enemy. You may want to look to that for inspiration -

bards inspiring word ability, and combat powers that basically shake the enemies faith in their beleifs (or job, depending on level of involvement) giving a debuff, or follow you completely, or give you abilities that protect you from your enemies (since you're not doing any damage output your combat difficulty will be off, you'll need a way to not get the rest of your team murdered)