Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 squarecircle Jul 30, 2008 1:10:18	Okay, had my first official session today, and one of the PCs likes to drink. So, I was thinking of introducing a magic item that is a flask which constantly replenishes itself with alcohol. Originally I was going to just leave it at that, but now I wonder if I should attach some kind of daily power to it. Some power that grants both bonuses and penalties for being drunk for the encounter, or maybe just one round. Any ideas?
#2 danmarlok Jul 30, 2008 9:36:23	One thing I've seen is for each drink's worth the character makes a saving throw and if they fail they lose the use of a healing surge until they get an extended rest.
#3 blackdrgn121 Jul 30, 2008 12:06:46	I'd limit the amount that can be created also. I know someone who would, rather than clear a dungeon himself, turn the flask upside down and let the alcohol pour in and then light it on fire. may take a while to fill and to burn down, but it sure beats crawling the darn thing.
#4 squarecircle Jul 30, 2008 15:28:07	I'd limit the amount that can be created also. I know someone who would, rather than clear a dungeon himself, turn the flask upside down and let the alcohol pour in and then light it on fire. may take a while to fill and to burn down, but it sure beats crawling the darn thing. Didn't even think of that. xD What if it's only alcohol once it enters the users body? (And just spitting it out won't work either because then it's just water or some other simple liquid again.)
#5 EscherEnigma Jul 30, 2008 16:53:41	Basic problem is that anything that has no limit can be abused in *some* way. Best to put a limit on it. Even if the limit is unreasonably high (say, enough vodka to give a party of five alcohol poisoning) it probably won't be enough for most shenanigans. That way it's a win-win, they get a shiny toy that gives them more then enough booze while you don't' have to worry about them drowning a dungeon. But yeah, a daily power might be shiny. A firebreathing trick maybe, or just temporary hitpoints.
#6 thazerdedelmarcus Jul 30, 2008 17:02:31	Okay, had my first official session today, and one of the PCs likes to drink. So, I was thinking of introducing a magic item that is a flask which constantly replenishes itself with alcohol. Originally I was going to just leave it at that, but now I wonder if I should attach some kind of daily power to it. Some power that grants both bonuses and penalties for being drunk for the encounter, or maybe just one round. Any ideas? I would put a limit on how much it could make, cause what would stop from a player buying a few dozen barrels and filling them with say ale or wine depending on what it could make and turning your game into D&D merchants
#7 squarecircle Jul 30, 2008 18:01:24	Basic problem is that anything that has no limit can be abused in *some* way. Best to put a limit on it. Even if the limit is unreasonably high (say, enough vodka to give a party of five alcohol poisoning) it probably won't be enough for most shenanigans. That way it's a win-win, they get a shiny toy that gives them more then enough booze while you don't' have to worry about them drowning a dungeon. But yeah, a daily power might be shiny. A firebreathing trick maybe, or just temporary hitpoints. I was thinking exactly those two options! Took a look at the Bazaar article, too? If I go temporary hit points, how many, and how long should they last? I was also thinking of adding an additional drawback for being drunk when the daily is used. Perhaps granting combat advantage to all enemies until the end of the encounter? As far as limiting the alcohol-- what if it's just enough to give one medium creature alcohol poisoning each day?
#8 rowl Sep 07, 2008 3:12:44	One thought: Drunk: Save vs poison, gets bonus to save = to Con mod, reduce by one for every portion of alcohol drank since last short rest (a portion equals the equivalency for the volume: beer = tankard, hard liquor = shot/swig, etc) Fail = gives Temp HP, I'd say Con + level, 1/e, but take -2 penalty on attacks, both last until the end of the encounter or until the individual stops drinking (or a short rest without drinking). I'd say that alcohol poisoning would equal an amount triple the Con score of a given individual. Some things to consider that I originally slated for my Drunken Master Paragon Path. I thought I had posted this stuff before, but I don't see it now. That being said, I'm just posting them unaltered for ideas to add to your Flask, feel free to alter any of them to fit to your concept: Drunken Master Path Features Drunken Stupor (11th level): As a minor action you may drink from a flask, waterskin, bottle, flagon, or other beverage container. If you do, gain one of the following benefits until the beginning of your next turn: • -1 Attack penalty, Damage bonus from attribute modifier according to weapon type. • +2 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex, and may shift one square when an attack misses, due to drunken staggering. Medicinal Purposes (11th level): When you take a minor action to drink distilled spirits, booze, alcohol, wine, beer, ale, or other potent intoxicant in the same round that you use your Second Wind, you gain +4 to your defenses (instead of the standard +2) and increase your Healing Surge value by twice your Constitution modifier. You must drink the entire contents of the container during your Second Wind action to gain these bonuses. Handling your Drink (16th level): You become proficient with all beverage containers as improvised weapons all of which provide a +2 proficiency bonus. A Flask or Waterskin does 1d4 damage, a Flagon or Tankard does 1d6, a Bottle does 1d6 but breaks on the first hit and does 1d4 damage thereafter, anything larger requires 2 hands to wield and does 1d8 damage. Furthermore, you can make these attacks without spilling the liquid inside. Also, the benefits provided for from Drunken Stupor gain an additional +2 bonus. Toxic Belch Drunken Master Attack 11 Gods help those that stand near the noxious fumes that emanate from depths of your gut. Encounter - Martial, Poison Standard Action Close Blast 3 Target: Each creature in burst Attack: Constitution vs. Fortitude Hit: 2d8 + Constitution modifier poison damage. Effect: The burst creates a zone of poisonous fumes that conceals creatures within it until the end of your next turn. Creatures that enter the zone or start their turns there take 1d10 + Constitution modifier poison damage. Special: You may take any feat that has the dragon breath racial power and apply it to this power, even if you are not a dragonborn. Drunken Rage Drunken Master Utility 12 NEVER try to interrupt a Fighter trying get his drink on! Encounter - Martial, Stance Free Action Personal Trigger: An enemy damages you for more than ¼ of your total hit point value or causes you to become bloodied (which causes you to spill your drink). You must be holding a container of alcohol at the time of the attack. Effect: You fly into a drunken rage, and must attack the enemy that triggered this effect on your next turn (if it is still alive). You gain +4 Strength and Constitution, a +4 morale bonus to saving throws (while conscious), but suffer a -2 to your defenses. These effects last a number of rounds equal to your new Constitution modifier. When they expire, you are weakened until you use your Second Wind or take a short rest. Additionally, you may spend a Healing Surge as a minor action on your next turn. Breath of Flame Drunken Master Attack 20 You’ve found that by lighting the stench that you cast forth from your malodorous maw, you can burn down any enemies who may be taking up precious bar space. Daily – Martial, Fire Standard Action Close Blast 3 Target: Each creature in burst Attack: Constitution vs. Reflex; you must be holding some type of fire or be able to create a spark to use this power, and you must have consumed alcohol at least once in the last 3 rounds (or copious amounts just before the battle). Hit: 4d6 + Constitution modifier fire damage, and ongoing 5 damage (save ends). Miss: Half damage, and ongoing 3 damage (save ends). Special: You may take any feat that has the dragon breath racial power and apply it to this power, even if you are not a dragonborn.
#9 aluman Sep 07, 2008 14:10:12	I would put a limit on how much it could make, cause what would stop from a player buying a few dozen barrels and filling them with say ale or wine depending on what it could make and turning your game into D&D merchants Well from 2e's statements, a small barrel is 2gp meanwhile Ale sells for 2sp a gallon, a typical barrel holds between 30-50 gallons, at 30 gallons thats 60sp or a net gain of 4gp per barrel. That is until market dynamics take over and the price for ale bottoms out (Probably falling to a barrel at 8cp or so where most of the profit is eaten up by the barrel) A tun of good wine (250gal) is worth 20gp. So thats 12.5gp per gallon, of Good wine, common wine is probably more in the neighborhood of 6gp per gallon, and again both of these get hit if you start introducing too much wine to a community. While not being a true economist of any kind, I would say a community could probably have about a gallon of ale per person per month before market glut started, so a community of ninehundred could have about thirty, thirty gallon barrels, at 6gp a barrel before 1. Barrels price start increasing probably by about 2sp per barrel for the next thirty 2. Price for Ale drops by about 2cp to 1.8sp per gallon (5.4gp) reducing the next batch's profit total from 120gp to 96gp. Then it happens again, 2.4 per barrel, and 1.6sp per gallon (4.8gp per barrel), dropping total profit to 72 Then again to 2.6 per barrel and 1.4sp per gallon (4.2gp total a barrel) dropping total profit to 48gp, and then again to 2.8 per barrel and 1.2sp per gallon (3.6gp a barrel) 24gp profit (less then 1gp per barrel). Eventually if the players stop things reverse, but sadly there is now a glut of barrels, and the price of barrels decreases dramatically for a few years, probably putting the cooper on his ass. Oh and then there is a fact that if players want to be merchants, let them. Its not to hard to come up with adventures based around being merchants. I mean you still have random monsters attacking you. Then there is the guilds of the business markets you sell stuff being upset with you for not paying dues. Then there is taxes. Onto the topic at hand I think the idea of a firey breath type daily might be amusingly fitting.
#10 ansvar Sep 07, 2008 21:02:09	One of the best campaigns I ever ran was merchant-based. It gives characters a reason to travel, and it gives players a creative outlet outside of "number of ways to kill an orc." It also gives characters with different backgrounds a common interest...and something to defend from ravaging marauders! Your Perpetual Flask would actually make a GREAT plot tool for a merchant campaign...with a hitch. Make it fairly unlimited, but make it so it randomly makes a "bad batch". Make the booze it produces have a comical and highly embarrassing side effect. Every time they start getting cozy, they get run out of town (or worse!) by some very unhappy customers! No matter how much money they make with the good batches, you as the DM can clean them out of all but what they carry on them whenever you want!
#11 thazerdedelmarcus Sep 08, 2008 11:12:00	Well from 2e's statements, a small barrel is 2gp meanwhile Ale sells for 2sp a gallon, a typical barrel holds between 30-50 gallons, at 30 gallons thats 60sp or a net gain of 4gp per barrel. That is until market dynamics take over and the price for ale bottoms out (Probably falling to a barrel at 8cp or so where most of the profit is eaten up by the barrel) A tun of good wine (250gal) is worth 20gp. So thats 12.5gp per gallon, of Good wine, common wine is probably more in the neighborhood of 6gp per gallon, and again both of these get hit if you start introducing too much wine to a community. While not being a true economist of any kind, I would say a community could probably have about a gallon of ale per person per month before market glut started, so a community of ninehundred could have about thirty, thirty gallon barrels, at 6gp a barrel before 1. Barrels price start increasing probably by about 2sp per barrel for the next thirty 2. Price for Ale drops by about 2cp to 1.8sp per gallon (5.4gp) reducing the next batch's profit total from 120gp to 96gp. Then it happens again, 2.4 per barrel, and 1.6sp per gallon (4.8gp per barrel), dropping total profit to 72 Then again to 2.6 per barrel and 1.4sp per gallon (4.2gp total a barrel) dropping total profit to 48gp, and then again to 2.8 per barrel and 1.2sp per gallon (3.6gp a barrel) 24gp profit (less then 1gp per barrel). Eventually if the players stop things reverse, but sadly there is now a glut of barrels, and the price of barrels decreases dramatically for a few years, probably putting the cooper on his ass. Oh and then there is a fact that if players want to be merchants, let them. Its not to hard to come up with adventures based around being merchants. I mean you still have random monsters attacking you. Then there is the guilds of the business markets you sell stuff being upset with you for not paying dues. Then there is taxes. Onto the topic at hand I think the idea of a firey breath type daily might be amusingly fitting. Well from a 4E point of view: Since ale/wine is mundane it can not be sold to the merchants unless the DM allows it, and if you do you only get 1/5 of the price. So that 20g barrel of wine/ale would net you 4g minus the cost of the barrel.
#12 anangeltomorrow Sep 08, 2008 12:58:35	Option - It's always empty, even put a hole in the bottom. But they can drink from it, even pour from it. But the (insert whatever booze here) vanishes on contact with anything or anywhere but down the holders gullet. Unlimited as you were looking for, but they can't do anything else with it. And it would even be tough to drown (or poison) someone, who they had tied up and were questioning or whatever, with it since the questionee would have to be holding it. Or even make them have to say some toast to get it to be drinkable.
#13 aluman Sep 08, 2008 13:13:36	Well from a 4E point of view: Since ale/wine is mundane it can not be sold to the merchants unless the DM allows it, and if you do you only get 1/5 of the price. So that 20g barrel of wine/ale would net you 4g minus the cost of the barrel. My point was as much even if you did do a merchant campaign where PC's sold at retail prices they aren't netting a whole lot from a barrel of ale.
#14 squarecircle Sep 08, 2008 14:54:10	In my campaign I went with the fiery breath daily and enough alcohol to give alcohol poisoning to one creature. However, I'm still looking for alternate suggestions. I'd like to have a power that simulated getting drunk, by granting combat advantage perhaps, but also coming with some benefit, maybe temporary hit points or a bonus to melee damage.