Homebrew Power, DM wants feedback. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Homebrew Power, DM wants feedback.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dogbackward
Apr 12, 2009 11:55:35 I'm working on a reflavoring of an existing class for a game that's starting soon, and part of that is a new utility power my DM and I were thinking of. He wanted me to run it by you guys and get some feedback on what everybody thought about it. It doesn't seem like too much to me, for a couple of reasons;

1. Shifting through an enemy's space also grants them Concealment for a turn.
2. The difficult terrain affects your and you allies as well.

If you think it's too much, please try to explain exactly why, and what you might do to make it work better. Thanks.

PATH of SHADOWS (6th level Utility; Encounter)
Keywords; Demonform, Primal
Action; Move; Personal
Effect; Shift a number of squares equal to your Dex. modifier; you can move through enemy spaces during this movement, but cannot end your movement there. Each square you leave during this movement is difficult terrain and grants concealment until the end of your turn.
#2
drackcove
Apr 12, 2009 12:36:39 what class?
#3
erk_
Apr 12, 2009 16:06:00 I'm assuming druid. This is a very powerful utility: it creates a large area of difficult concealing terrain that you can shape like a wall, and it lets you shift through enemy squares. One or the other would be enough, not both.
#4
half_dragon_infernal
Apr 12, 2009 17:18:30 Yeah, one or the other. I'd reccomend getting rid of the difficult terrain.
#5
mycroftb
Apr 13, 2009 1:51:09 I'm the DM in question. I appreciate the feedback. For a bit of background, I had independently come up with the idea for a power that lets you move and leave behind difficult terrain. It just so happens that while chatting with him, DB said something like that'd fit his character concept. This is indeed for a druid, and the "Demonform" keyword is just our reflavoring of "Beast Form". He's going for a beast form druid template with only minor reflavoring otherwise, trying to stay wildshaped as much as possible for RP reasons, voluntarily cutting himself off from non-beastform powers. Here's the variables I can think of. The easiest power I can compare it to is the Wizard's level 6 utility Wall of Fog (PH 162).

Encounter or Daily? Obviously this will make a huge difference in how powerful it should be. I was originally thinking Daily, as WoF, but we hadn't actually discussed that.

Action: Standard or Move? If it stays a move action, it'll be more useful than if it's a standard action. If it'd be better as a standard action but needs a bit more kick, maybe have a secondary attack against any creature moved through that imposes a minor status effect until the end of the player's next turn (such as wis vs. fort, weakened). That would have the ability to affect allies as well.

Melee - Being that the character is going to be in melee, shifting makes more sense than moving, to avoid OAs. Being able to shift through enemy squares does feel a little odd at first, but WoF allows you to plop it down in occupied squares, so I don't consider that too different. There are other race/class teleport powers by then too, so getting behind enemy lines isn't unusual by then either.

Area: Tying it to dex mod keeps the area small at first, but lets it grow with time. Starting out this would probably be 4 squares, half that of WoF, with (I think) an unbuffed max of 8.

Effect: Difficult terrain *and* concealment, as people so far have said, may be too much. WoF grants concealment and blocks line of sight. If, on the other hand, only one or the other is too much, leaving at versatile might be a compromise (as long as squares are all one or all the other, not mix'n'match). Or going away from difficult terrain, instead leaving a zone that if any creature enters or starts its turn there is subjected to an attack to be immobilized (until the zone goes away at the end of the player's next turn).

With all this stuff I've written it's pretty obvious this is my first time creating/balancing a power, so any further input on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
#6
gavin_silverstream
Apr 13, 2009 2:01:38 I would say drop the difficult terrain and say it grants the player phasing and concealment till the end of his next turn. It would be a passable encounter power in that case.

If you decide to keep the difficult terrain and drop the concealment instead, let the terrain last as a sustain minor and make it a daily.

Two cents...paid.
#7
dogbackward
Apr 13, 2009 10:48:18 I wouldn't mind dropping the difficult terrain, especially since I'd like to do whatever I can to keep this as an Encounter power. I like having weaker powers I can use more often than stronger powers I can only use once per day. I like the idea of getting Phasing and Concealment from it, but is that really that much less powerful than the difficult terrain? And remember, the difficult terrain hampers my allies as much as it does my enemies, though controlling where I place it does keep that from being too big a problem.

I know the Avenger has a Phasing encounter attack at 7th level, so that doesn't seem to be too much at 6th. What does everybody else think on that? Does dropping the difficult terrain and adding Phasing and/or Concealment for me work? Or is that still too much?
#8
erk_
Apr 13, 2009 15:15:50 If it were a standard action, shift, and leave behind smoke that grants concealment but no difficult terrain, that would work. Spending a standard on it is a big cost.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dogbackward Apr 12, 2009 11:55:35	I'm working on a reflavoring of an existing class for a game that's starting soon, and part of that is a new utility power my DM and I were thinking of. He wanted me to run it by you guys and get some feedback on what everybody thought about it. It doesn't seem like too much to me, for a couple of reasons; 1. Shifting through an enemy's space also grants them Concealment for a turn. 2. The difficult terrain affects your and you allies as well. If you think it's too much, please try to explain exactly why, and what you might do to make it work better. Thanks. PATH of SHADOWS (6th level Utility; Encounter) Keywords; Demonform, Primal Action; Move; Personal Effect; Shift a number of squares equal to your Dex. modifier; you can move through enemy spaces during this movement, but cannot end your movement there. Each square you leave during this movement is difficult terrain and grants concealment until the end of your turn.
#2 drackcove Apr 12, 2009 12:36:39	what class?
#3 erk_ Apr 12, 2009 16:06:00	I'm assuming druid. This is a very powerful utility: it creates a large area of difficult concealing terrain that you can shape like a wall, and it lets you shift through enemy squares. One or the other would be enough, not both.
#4 half_dragon_infernal Apr 12, 2009 17:18:30	Yeah, one or the other. I'd reccomend getting rid of the difficult terrain.
#5 mycroftb Apr 13, 2009 1:51:09	I'm the DM in question. I appreciate the feedback. For a bit of background, I had independently come up with the idea for a power that lets you move and leave behind difficult terrain. It just so happens that while chatting with him, DB said something like that'd fit his character concept. This is indeed for a druid, and the "Demonform" keyword is just our reflavoring of "Beast Form". He's going for a beast form druid template with only minor reflavoring otherwise, trying to stay wildshaped as much as possible for RP reasons, voluntarily cutting himself off from non-beastform powers. Here's the variables I can think of. The easiest power I can compare it to is the Wizard's level 6 utility Wall of Fog (PH 162). Encounter or Daily? Obviously this will make a huge difference in how powerful it should be. I was originally thinking Daily, as WoF, but we hadn't actually discussed that. Action: Standard or Move? If it stays a move action, it'll be more useful than if it's a standard action. If it'd be better as a standard action but needs a bit more kick, maybe have a secondary attack against any creature moved through that imposes a minor status effect until the end of the player's next turn (such as wis vs. fort, weakened). That would have the ability to affect allies as well. Melee - Being that the character is going to be in melee, shifting makes more sense than moving, to avoid OAs. Being able to shift through enemy squares does feel a little odd at first, but WoF allows you to plop it down in occupied squares, so I don't consider that too different. There are other race/class teleport powers by then too, so getting behind enemy lines isn't unusual by then either. Area: Tying it to dex mod keeps the area small at first, but lets it grow with time. Starting out this would probably be 4 squares, half that of WoF, with (I think) an unbuffed max of 8. Effect: Difficult terrain and concealment, as people so far have said, may be too much. WoF grants concealment and blocks line of sight. If, on the other hand, only one or the other is too much, leaving at versatile might be a compromise (as long as squares are all one or all the other, not mix'n'match). Or going away from difficult terrain, instead leaving a zone that if any creature enters or starts its turn there is subjected to an attack to be immobilized (until the zone goes away at the end of the player's next turn). With all this stuff I've written it's pretty obvious this is my first time creating/balancing a power, so any further input on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
#6 gavin_silverstream Apr 13, 2009 2:01:38	I would say drop the difficult terrain and say it grants the player phasing and concealment till the end of his next turn. It would be a passable encounter power in that case. If you decide to keep the difficult terrain and drop the concealment instead, let the terrain last as a sustain minor and make it a daily. Two cents...paid.
#7 dogbackward Apr 13, 2009 10:48:18	I wouldn't mind dropping the difficult terrain, especially since I'd like to do whatever I can to keep this as an Encounter power. I like having weaker powers I can use more often than stronger powers I can only use once per day. I like the idea of getting Phasing and Concealment from it, but is that really that much less powerful than the difficult terrain? And remember, the difficult terrain hampers my allies as much as it does my enemies, though controlling where I place it does keep that from being too big a problem. I know the Avenger has a Phasing encounter attack at 7th level, so that doesn't seem to be too much at 6th. What does everybody else think on that? Does dropping the difficult terrain and adding Phasing and/or Concealment for me work? Or is that still too much?
#8 erk_ Apr 13, 2009 15:15:50	If it were a standard action, shift, and leave behind smoke that grants concealment but no difficult terrain, that would work. Spending a standard on it is a big cost.