Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 customize4e Jun 10, 2010 9:54:23	My gang and I have been playing 4e for a while now and decided we needed to make up a batch of new spells. Every edition we've played so far we do this. Back in 2e we came up with a library system that allowed wizards to research new spells and got into using that system in every game since. Many of the players use wizards or variations on the theme and so they always want to resurrect some of those old spells they liked so much. The way 4e works, more damage output is needed to keep up with the enemies, so we couldnt just bring back our own spells from 2nd and 3rd ed as they were. But as we went through the powers from 4e PHB we noticed patterns that we could use to shape our favorites. Eventually we found a nice point system that allowed us to create balanced spells for wizards, and it works ok for clerics. We assume the warlock, sorcerer, and any other spellcasting class mod to do well with this system. Sometimes our clerics are also just another wizard class. Keep in mind that we did away with at-will, encounter and daily ranks on all spells. To get the power of daily spells back into the level 1 category, we gave wizards the ability to specialize in a single school using something similar to Iron Heroes (thanks Monte). We also got rid of spells at near every level and went back to 3e spells by spell level (every two caster levels). We also play with more spells available at one time, since we needed more options per encounter. This allowed spellcasters to be more flexible against wider ranges of enemies. Take a look: Spell Level and Point Alotments Level 0: 1 point Level 1: 2 points Level 2: 3 points Level 3: 5 points Level 4: 6 points Level 5: 8 points Level 6: 10 points Level 7: 12 points Level 8: 15 points Level 9: 20 points Half Point Effects Push 3 or less (includes slide) Dazed (save ends) Ongoing 5 (save ends) Knockdown Slowed (save ends) Blind (save ends) Spell creates a zone Zone is movable with caster action Zone blocks line of sight +1 dmg per die (max +2) Increase damage die size from base d6 (or decrease for points back, max d10) We dont usually fight over half points above or below the point system Full Point Effects +1 Damage die +2 to single defense Spell creates close burst or blast no greater than 3 Spell creates burst 1 at range 10 or less +1 to ranged burst size Increase close burst or blast from 3 to 5 Weakened (turn) Ongoing 10 (save ends) Immobilized (turn) Target is held and takes repeat damage Summoned creature or zone is sustainable indefinitely Teleport 2 spaces +2 attack vs single target +1 attack vs any targets gain temp hp = half level + ability mod push 5 heal 5 or 1d6 + ability mod grant free immediate save Spell is used as an interrupt on another's turn Special Cost Effects Multi-target: 1 point allows up to 3 targets (damage die should shrink the higher the target count) Chain-targets: No matter the number of additional targets, add +1 per damage die done to each target. For instance, if your spell hops from initial target to secondary and deals 5d to the first target and 3d to the second target, you count a total of 8d for the spell. If there is a tertiary target add whatever die it gets to the total. Summoned creature or zone is self controlled: 4 points Wall: 2 points for 8 squares Wall Impenetrable: 3 points Mixed Damage types (2 types): 2 points (we didnt like this power at lower levels) Save for Half: Add points for whatever half does Entombed or Otherwise unable to play, but protected from harm: 1 point Ongoing 10 that switches to ongoing 5 after save: 2 points Ongoing 15: 2 points Close 20 or LOS: only 10 points Touch or melee delivery: -1 point Reduced action: Spell used as a move or minor action rather than a standard action: +.5 or +1 depending on spell (DM approval) This point system created a large array of balanced spells for the wizard (and other arcane classes) and the clerics were almost as satisfied. Warriors and rogues wanted in on the system and so we opened it to them and granted the warrior a +1 die bonus at level 1. Rogues gained a point system that allowed more skill bonus options and additional sneak attack related powers In the end, it took a few games to get the point system right, but we think we did ok. Keep in mind we also are playing with another system at the same time. Our mana point system does away with at-will, encounter and daily ranks, but also does away with 3e spell slots (which most of our players hated from day one, sorry Gary). Take a look: Spell Level Level 0: 2 point (or free with feat) Level 1: 4 points Level 2: 6 points Level 3: 10 points Level 4: 15 points Level 5: 22 points Level 6: 30 points Level 7: 40 points Level 8: 50 points Level 9: 60 points The DM grants casters mana equal to 10 + ((Int Mod + 1) * X) where X is equal to caster level in the heroic tier, 2x at paragon and 4x at epic. This system works similar to the mana system described in 2e Spells and Magic (which all our players loved). At present, the DM allows us full mana but also allows us a recharge rate. We've been toying with either a rate based on a skill like Caster Level + Meditation per hour, or the one we like better which is a healing surge type system for mana points between encounters. That way we dont introduce new skills which seems to always unbalance our game. In trials the players prefer mana surge values of 1/4 their total rather than running numbers. But in some trials the DM did not allow a recharge, prefering a daily alotment. Or we were allowed recharge using only half of the mana limit given above as our total. In each case, the DM just modified the difficulty of the encounter to make the game work. Combining these two systems with our library system (which is cool in itself) gave the players the ability to play with their characters and customize them just the way they wanted to run them. One player even suggested that the sorcerer be able to mix and match points on the fly to create effects (a work in progress that seems to need weakening). 4e seemed much more customizable, where before the PHB was rigid. The DM allows us 2 new spells at each level-up, similar to previous versions. But has determined that we can either auto-learn from a scroll without an Arcana check to learn it OR we can automatically build a higher level version of a spell we already know (like perfecting a spell). If we dont like those two options we get nothing until we find some scrolls to learn from. We've opened up a huge can of feats that we can associate with our fame, mana, library and spell systems too. But I wont put everything in a single post. Tell us how you think our system plays with your mods. We've enjoyed making it, and hope you like it too. Feel free to let us know how you made it better!
#2 meeker7 Jun 10, 2010 15:01:33	Back when my group played 3e we used a book called Chaos Magic: Wild Sorcery to create various versions of magic use that relyed on a pool of sorts. We even at one point made a system for Fighters, Clerics, and Rouges! Though none of our homebrew stuff relyed on the use of Chaos. We just did a play test of your system and it turned out rather good, we did however alter the aloted points to create At-Will-Encounter-and Daily powers. Keep in mind that we were using your point system to "build" Powers, allowing the casters to name their creations. I like it, theres always fleshing work that can be done, but its pretty good as is. I'd encurage you to look into Chaos Magic: Wild Sorcery and see if it sparks more imaginitive systems.
#3 customize4e Jun 10, 2010 15:46:15	Somebody here had suggested we use Level 0 points for level 1 at-will and level 3 points for level 1 daily powers. It seemed to work when we tried it. But they lost interest at higher levels and opted to use both systems, I think it was mostly just because they wanted more options that this system allowed. Not more options in creating spells, but more options in powers allowed per day. They didnt like getting stuck with only certain spells. We played with the option of a 4e caster having a larger spellbook with 4e powers in it, and the caster could choose for the day what spells he would use. We came up with some number based on modifiers that allowed you a certain number of each level spell that could be ready at any given time. It kinda worked, but there was a bit of wait time for one of our casters. Needless to say, but the same guy slows down most anything that gives options. In my case, when I play a caster with access to spells, I tend to both make my own and also try to get a copy of every one. Its a greed thing, I dont know why. I also just tend to make morphable elemental spells and just plug in the damage type. I set up base damage per damage type, like d6 for fire + ongoing, and d8 for ice with either slow or immobilize. I did every element we could come up with, but basically they were all the same spell. It reminded me of the 2nd edition chromatic orb that had like 8 functions or something. Kinda plain actually. Another caster is always trying to max his possibilities. Hes often bordering on forcing his spells to do something one or two levels higher. Hes been doing that since 2e. We always thought he was just misreading stuff, but hes just got a very creative and greedy way of playing. Anything he can get by the DM makes him happy. Thanks for the info about the Chaos Magic. We've got a gamestore nearby with all kinds of leftovers from the last 10 years nobody bought. I bet its in there, and I might have seen it before. I'll have to surprise them and get it.