Like all other forms of intellectual theft, the digital form thereof demands a solution. It seems that Wizards of the Coast reads at least SOME of the material on these boards, and I could only hope that through some form of collaboration that it becomes something more than just homebrew. And those that toil away so relentlessly are recognized, and ultimately rewarded monetarily.
What would be great, is if the creative minds here in the homebrew forums and at WotC teamed up (!) to release printed books (!!) that were acknowledged as intellectual materials/copywritten materials, in the form of a kind of Supplemental Guides to make money (!!!) for these authors.
Go ahead Wizards..put your finishing touches on it, add your balance etc, but in the end give us something which is usable in a mass setting, while simultaneously giving backs to those who created it.
A Troll is someone who tries to cause trouble on the forums, whereas a Lurker is only observing it.
Just thought I should elaborate.
Or at least have a huge collabroation project between all the different homebrewers here.
indeed, post revised
see i post so little i didnt even know the difference 
re: collaboration
We get alot of that here, but i feel like it needs to be taken more seriously for the classes that are hugely popular. A great example are the Final Fantasy-series based classes, which seem to get a lot of attention, and there are certainly others that get attention as well.
I just think it's a printed book needed to lock these classes down for good, due to the infinite mutability of a forum with editable posts. Classes like the time mage and monster mage (which, for example, has a half dozen different NAMES alone, let alone qualities and builds) are never gonna be balanced if there are 15 different versions, and they get edited by the original author, and then a third party author, and then his buddy, and his girlfriend (btw if she writes homebrews, i think I still wanna meet her even if she ripped someone off to do it!). then, as ff6shadow unfortunately had to point out (in this thread ) , the final version gets reached and then things go south as it is file-shared across the web without permission
a printed book wouldnt necessarily prevent the theft...but it would help, and in the very least it would nail the classes down permanently if WotC released 'their' version, and then maybe it would say "Submitted by: _____" with credit and money going to that author and WotC. This also would let WotC get their hand on it and work with the class author to come up with something balanced yet true to the original intent, and then sell it to turn some bucks for everyone involved.
Cuz seriously, they mustve noticed, there is a large demand for more classes and unique themes (hence the GammaWorld stuff). And with the 4th edition multiclass, who DOESN'T want more base classes and paragon paths?? More unique classes and paragons only serves to fix that (notice emphasis on unique..). Face it Wizards, PlyrHdBk and PlyrHdBk II (4e) are good, but just dont meet the hunger of the inventive DM or player in terms of classes
re: troll/lurker
indeed, post revised
re: collaboration
We get alot of that here, but i feel like it needs to be taken more seriously for the classes that are hugely popular. A great example are the Final Fantasy-series based classes, which seem to get a lot of attention, and there are certainly others that get attention as well.
I just think it's a printed book needed to lock these classes down for good, due to the infinite mutability of a forum with editable posts. Classes like the time mage and monster mage (which, for example, has a half dozen different NAMES alone, let alone qualities and builds) are never gonna be balanced if there are 15 different versions, and they get edited by the original author, and then a third party author, and then his buddy, and his girlfriend (btw if she writes homebrews, i think I still wanna meet her even if she ripped someone off to do it!). then, as ff6shadow unfortunately had to point out (in this thread ) , the final version gets reached and then things go south as it is file-shared across the web without permission
a printed book wouldnt necessarily prevent the theft...but it would help, and in the very least it would nail the classes down permanently if WotC released 'their' version, and then maybe it would say "Submitted by: _____" with credit and money going to that author and WotC. This also would let WotC get their hand on it and work with the class author to come up with something balanced yet true to the original intent, and then sell it to turn some bucks for everyone involved.
Cuz seriously, they mustve noticed, there is a large demand for more classes and unique themes (hence the GammaWorld stuff). And with the 4th edition multiclass, who DOESN'T want more base classes and paragon paths?? More unique classes and paragons only serves to fix that (notice emphasis on unique..). Face it Wizards, PlyrHdBk and PlyrHdBk II (4e) are good, but just dont meet the hunger of the inventive DM or player in terms of classes
Actually, my girlfriend was just in a third party D&D book.
I think an uneditable PDF does the trick. Then again, my class has been spread far and wide. Doesn't bother me a bit. (I saw it on a one of those "free e-book" sites once. It was kind of funny.)
Actually, my girlfriend was just in a third party D&D book.
I think an uneditable PDF does the trick. Then again, my class has been spread far and wide. Doesn't bother me a bit. (I saw it on a one of those "free e-book" sites once. It was kind of funny.)
Only girl I know that plays DnD, couldnt see her spendin the time and effort on it. Admittedly, the girl homebrewer stuff was off topic, but well, I might as well say it: sir, your girlfriend rocks my socks
Could be done with Google Wave.
Waaay back before the announcement of 4e, there was a sort of unofficial recognition to some home brew class makers. There was the "Custom Class Cookie Contest" or something to that effect. Home brewers would submit classes, have them rated by 4 judges, and each judge would rate them in a variety of ways. Scores and comments would be submitted to a head judge, who would then post results. The winner got a cookie, aka bragging rights. The contest would consist of the first 10 classes entered.
If someone was so inclined, they could then take the classes, which would be posted in the thread, or linked to, and compile them into a fan book (Like was done with the old 3.X handbooks in the character optimization forums before/during the upgrade to gleemax). No money is made, but it would defiantly be something for anyone interested in freelance RPG work could show as evidence of their skills.
If someone were to hit up whoever the head mod around here now is, I bet they could convince them to set something up like with the Master DM contests, and give out a special avatar, or title.
(I was one of the old judges, but wouldn't want to do it for 4e, as a new 4e class is loads more complex and massive, and the time involved in 3X was hefty)
The same could in theory be done for paragon paths (way easier to judge than classes), races, and epic destinies.
..No money is made, but it would defiantly be something for anyone interested in freelance RPG work could show as evidence of their skills.
Well, that being said Krusk, we already have that and its good, but Im thinking make it more organized. I mean some of the class homebrewers I have seen are almost poetic in their class designs, and I love to see approval from Wizards on their designs. I surely wouldn't mind teaming up with those designing individuals on something like that too.
Its just that..well, it would be nice if WotC would take a more active role in the decision points on powers and balance. 4e is, as you say, loads more complex and massive, and while doable, it would just feel great to have the Stamp of Approval from them on a class. At a minimum, I am speaking of having an 'approved by WotC' class list getting Sticky'ed by a mod, and its final version of the template itself being uneditable once approved. Ideally though, a publication with credits is what I envision. Bringing the online community aspect of D&D 4e to an area closer to foreground, something that DDI is aiming for.
Notice the emphasis I am placing on Sticky, and structure, two things we don't get as homebrewers as of now. I like the idea of bringin it to the head mod, and so I think I will take your advice, once I get my hands a little dirtier with 4e class design, that is. Seems like the next logical step to what I am aiming at anyways.
Melikes where this thread is going.
Its just that..well, it would be nice if WotC would take a more active role in the decision points on powers and balance. 4e is, as you say, loads more complex and massive, and while doable, it would just feel great to have the Stamp of Approval from them on a class. At a minimum, I am speaking of having an 'approved by WotC' class list getting Sticky'ed by a mod, and its final version of the template itself being uneditable once approved. Ideally though, a publication with credits is what I envision. Bringing the online community aspect of D&D 4e to an area closer to foreground, something that DDI is aiming for.
I don't see this happening. An "Approved by WoTC" stamp on classes for a variety of reasons.
- Designers have enough to do. Really can't spare the time to browse the forums, read classes playtest them, and then say yes or no.
- Designers really oughtn't browse the custom classes very often, because that brings up a lot of "Idea theft" cries from a lot of the home-brewers. A good many left these forums when the most recent TOS changes were made. Basically changed to "If we print your idea, you have to deal"
- Paying someone to go browse the forums and stamp of approval classes that are good probably is not in the budget.
The best I could see happening is a stickied thread, with the Lead forum mod compiling a list of the "Favorite" homebrew stuff, or even simply all the homebrew classes that ask to be added. (Which is actually something that did exist for a while, a compilation of all the custom classes for 3.X)
What you might might MIGHT, be able to do, is find a publisher willing to publish your compilation. This would be totally on your end, and without any involvement from WoTC. But basically, you would have to contact each class creator you wish to use, get their permission, and then go and publish the compilation yourself.
What you might might MIGHT, be able to do, is find a publisher willing to publish your compilation. This would be totally on your end, and without any involvement from WoTC. But basically, you would have to contact each class creator you wish to use, get their permission, and then go and publish the compilation yourself.
Hmph. Fair nuff. Not exactly an insurmountable task.
Another issue, now close to being off topic..I wish there were more guidelines then on what a class's powers should like at each level, without having to just "steal" the powers that already exist and reflavor them. Like, a guideline for what an effect should and can do based on whether its an Encounter, Daily, or Utility of a specified level, and the class' role (Something similar to the racial design guidelines already stickied?). Anyone seen one of those, even for a single role? Striker maybe? how bout Defender??
I really tire of the process I have to use now for writing a homebrew class without much to go on. IE- anything not close to a released class. That is, poring through the existing classes spanning two to three books and thirty levels of powers for each, all to find similar powers, then compiling them and isolating those closest to what I want, using a lookup to find keywords like immobilize, then further narrowing them down, ad. nausem...until I arrive at something I think I want to put as a Level 7 power.
I never finished the project, but the pdf is already 96 pages. Not all the work was done by me, but alot of it was. Anyhow I try to add stuff to the game for instance I've been working on some house rules like Limit Breaks that give a boost to at-wills randomly during combat.
actually when 3.5 was out I did a major unofficial project on Eberron, that's still considered one of their major posts. It was the Ecologies of Eberron (I'm twelvedrunkenmonkeyz, but for some reason I haven't been able to get into my account sense the time before forever). Someone was even awesome enough to create a PDF and compile most of the works.
I never finished the project, but the pdf is already 96 pages. Not all the work was done by me, but alot of it was.
Encouraging. Definitely something I wouldn't mind having been a part of.
Anyhow I try to add stuff to the game for instance I've been working on some house rules like Limit Breaks that give a boost to at-wills randomly during combat.
*gasp*
As am I..
Also working on story and rituals to implement weapon materia-like items with concordance-like traits, that give access to buffs, at-will, and as concordance-like trait builds up.. encounter powers from other classes
...if that means anything to you...
Another issue, now close to being off topic..I wish there were more guidelines then on what a class's powers should like at each level, without having to just "steal" the powers that already exist and reflavor them. Like, a guideline for what an effect should and can do based on whether its an Encounter, Daily, or Utility of a specified level, and the class' role (Something similar to the racial design guidelines already stickied?). Anyone seen one of those, even for a single role? Striker maybe? how bout Defender??
I really tire of the process I have to use now for writing a homebrew class without much to go on. IE- anything not close to a released class. That is, poring through the existing classes spanning two to three books and thirty levels of powers for each, all to find similar powers, then compiling them and isolating those closest to what I want, using a lookup to find keywords like immobilize, then further narrowing them down, ad. nausem...until I arrive at something I think I want to put as a Level 7 power.
There is an unofficial balance meter floating around, I don't recall it off the top of my head, but it basically says "An at will should do XdY, AdB + small rider, CdD + Bigger rider" and it goes through all the various levels and powers. If you look around I bet you could find it.
It was reverse engineered from the core books, IE "The core books have X at will powers that do this for a defender. Their at wills should do roughly that"
I'm not a lawyer, and I'm sure other people who aren't lawyers will tell you I'm wrong and that it's perfectly legal to publish and sell rules for Limit Breaks and Blue Mages, etc., but chances are you will eventually get a cease and desist and probably don't have the money to go to court against a million-dollar game company even if you think you're in the right.
So, posting fan content for final fantasy and stuff on these boards is usually fine, but if you try to publish it and make money off of it, Square-Enix is basically obligated to demand a cease and desist if they want to maintain their intellectual property.
So, posting fan content for final fantasy and stuff on these boards is usually fine, but if you try to publish it and make money off of it, Square-Enix is basically obligated to demand a cease and desist if they want to maintain their intellectual property.
nonono - sorry to make it seem that way; not gonna even TRY to publish any of my Final Fantasy ripoffs
I mean if I can contribute to the increased life span of a D&D edition that I like so be it. 4th edition by far is one of the best as far as balance goes and I really like it from a DM perspective (way easier).
Well Lohkee that's actually bad for business to. I mean WotC does pay for writers, and after all we are what makes the game. That's why I don't really see a problem with them "stealing" stuff from forums. I mean if I can contribute to the increased life span of a D&D edition that I like so be it.
Yea I am not necessarily tryin to make it a legal issue. Lets just say I'd like to see a fanbook in which Wizards said, "OK now this is balanced and suitable for a campaign as written"
4th edition by far is one of the best as far as balance goes and I really like it from a DM perspective (way easier).
kudos to that
Well Lhockee that's actually bad for business to.
Not really. WotC {and Hasbro} is a massvie, cumbersome organization. The displeasure of a few fans who somehow feel ripped-off, is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. For every fan that falls out of favour with WotC, three more will step in to fill the gaps. If I don't feel like dishing out my hardwork 'cause I wont get the cred for it, then that's how it goes. And trust me, though WotC may look at the forums now and then, it's in the design teams that do all the actual work, whether they take that inspiration from the forums or not is irrelevant.