Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rickyh Sep 12, 2008 15:42:29	Edit: This also includes clarifications to players, not just house rules. Sorry for any confusion Games tend to be a little tougher, grittier, and have a little less magic than the DMG recommends. 1.A natural 20 on attack rolls results in an “across the board” experience bonus of 25ep between 1st - 10th level, 50ep from levels 11-20, and 100ep from levels 21-30. Essentially a natural 20 is really worth its value (25, 50, or100) multiplied by player characters. Basically if a character rolls a nat 20. All players would get 25ep. 2.Skills cannot critical or fumble. A natural 20 does not guarantee success nor does a natural 1 result in an automatic failure. At DM discretion some checks will automatically succeed or fail. For example out of combat trying to open a regular wooded treasure chest with a basic or intermediate lock would likely be an automatic pass. Intimidating an adult black dragon at third level just isn't going to succeed regardless of the roll. Story wise it might work, if you have an army behind you or another good dragon on your side with you at the time. 3.Paladins can lose their powers if they are not faithful to their deity. During this time they may not use any of their at will, encounter, or daily powers until atonement has been achieved. 4.You may be brought back to life once per tier (Heroic, Paragon, and Epic). Standard penalties of the PHB apply and it usually requires a trip to the city of Manifest. During this trip you may play as a ghost and can aid another player, or attempt to interfere when an enemy attacks an ally. Other actions may also be available such as “warn”. Details are available from the DM on request. 5.Encumbrance and weight are on the honor system and the DM can audit and impose penalties as he/she sees fit. Examples of acceptable encumbrance: Two swords, Two daggers, armor, backpack, bedroll. Unacceptable: Three long swords, a short sword, an axe, a dagger, a bow, shield, armor, backpack, bedroll, a sack of 1000 coins. 6.Prices of items in D&D 4e books are not set in stone and are influenced by factors such as availability, etc... Please don't assume prices are what they are in the PHB, Adventurer's Vault, or others. Those are guidelines only. A leather water skin is normally a gold, but in a desert it could be 5 gold or possibly even 10 or 15 gold depending on the NPC, location (such as desert), and if leather is not a common material. 7.Battle Standards from the Adventurer's Vault are not used. 8.New PCs rolled up using 4d6 dice rolling (two columns) method will begin play with a magic item of some sort.. What do you like, what don't you like? Any Comments?
#2 JesterOC Sep 12, 2008 16:50:48	1.A natural 20 on attack rolls results in an “across the board” experience bonus of 25ep between 1st - 10th level, 50ep from levels 11-20, and 100ep from levels 21-30. Essentially a natural 20 is really worth its value (25, 50, or100) multiplied by player characters. Seems a bit odd. First it adds complexity in the form of extra notes for each player. Next it favors players with area attacks. Finaly it breaks party unity by having some random character (most likely a wizard) level up before others which is not really fun for the rest of the party. Edit: Unless across the board meant to all characters... Then, pretty cool. Actually helps party unity. Everyone cheering on a crit. 2.Skills cannot critical or fumble. A natural 20 does not guarantee success nor does a natural 1 result in an automatic failure. At DM discretion some checks will automatically succeed or fail. For example out of combat trying to open a regular wooded treasure chest with a basic or intermediate lock would likely be an automatic pass. Intimidating an adult black dragon at third level just isn't going to succeed regardless of the roll. Story wise it might work, if you have an army behind you or another good dragon on your side with you at the time. There are no critcal hits or fumbles with skills in 4E. 3.Paladins can lose their powers if they are not faithful to their deity. During this time they may not use any of their at will, encounter, or daily powers until atonement has been achieved. Seems artitrary. In the past editions since the paladin was so much more powerful that other characters it was given rules to balance it. Now that it has been balanced, this seems unneeded. Might as well do it to Clerics too. At least to be consistent. 4.You may be brought back to life once per tier (Heroic, Paragon, and Epic). Standard penalties of the PHB apply and it usually requires a trip to the city of Manifest. During this trip you may play as a ghost and can aid another player, or attempt to interfere when an enemy attacks an ally. Other actions may also be available such as “warn”. Details are available from the DM on request. I like the ghost stuff but limiting the deaths seems arbitrary. Can you are least save up deaths so if you never died until Epic do you have 2 extra unused lives left? 5.Encumbrance and weight are on the honor system and the DM can audit and impose penalties as he/she sees fit. Examples of acceptable encumbrance: Two swords, Two daggers, armor, backpack, bedroll. Unacceptable: Three long swords, a short sword, an axe, a dagger, a bow, shield, armor, backpack, bedroll, a sack of 1000 coins. Seems fine. 6.Prices of items in D&D 4e books are not set in stone and are influenced by factors such as availability, etc... Please don't assume prices are what they are in the PHB, Adventurer's Vault, or others. Those are guidelines only. A leather water skin is normally a gold, but in a desert it could be 5 gold or possibly even 10 or 15 gold depending on the NPC, location (such as desert), and if leather is not a common material. Also good, not sure if that is a house rule though. I think they mention it in the DMG. Could be wrong about that, but either way it seems rational. 7.Battle Standards from the Adventurer's Vault are not used. This is just a subset of section 6. Ok that is my 2 cents. JesterOC
#3 bastard_dm Sep 12, 2008 17:20:04	An interesting set of house rules. Here's what I think, since you asked: 1.A natural 20 on attack rolls results in an “across the board” experience bonus of 25ep between 1st - 10th level, 50ep from levels 11-20, and 100ep from levels 21-30. Essentially a natural 20 is really worth its value (25, 50, or100) multiplied by player characters. Why grant extra experience on a lucky die roll? Or maybe better yet- what do you expect this rule to accomplish? 4e is designed around keeping the PCs at the same level, and while this small addition of experience probably won't make the difference, it feels unnecessary. If you really want to give the players some token xp reward for doing something "cool", why not let each player award a 25-50 xp prize to someone who did something interesting at the end of each game? It'd have the same overall effect, but give the players control over it. 2.Skills cannot critical or fumble. A natural 20 does not guarantee success nor does a natural 1 result in an automatic failure. At DM discretion some checks will automatically succeed or fail. For example out of combat trying to open a regular wooded treasure chest with a basic or intermediate lock would likely be an automatic pass. Intimidating an adult black dragon at third level just isn't going to succeed regardless of the roll. Story wise it might work, if you have an army behind you or another good dragon on your side with you at the time. Skill checks don't have critical successes or fumbles in 4e (or in 3.x for that matter). As for automatic success, that's a good idea- if the players should have no chance in failing at a task, why make them roll? I think that automatic failures need to be handled carefully, though. Why I would agree that a 3rd level party probably shouldn't be able to intimidate an adult black dragon on a lucky roll, they might be able to if they came up with a really good plan (and maybe followed it up with a lucky roll or two). The hardest shift for me as a DM in playing 4e is about trying to say "yes" to my players more often. 3.Paladins can lose their powers if they are not faithful to their deity. During this time they may not use any of their at will, encounter, or daily powers until atonement has been achieved. This strikes me as a needless punishment against any paladins in your game. The classes are balanced as they are- this simply makes the paladin a weaker choice. Besides, the gods are much less-defined in 4e. What does it mean to be faithful to your deity? There's a lot of potential gray area in there. If you have any paladins (or clerics for that matter- can they be "unfaithful" and keep their powers?) that start acting "out of code" and damaging the storyline, talk to them about it after the game. 4.You may be brought back to life once per tier (Heroic, Paragon, and Epic). Standard penalties of the PHB apply and it usually requires a trip to the city of Manifest. During this trip you may play as a ghost and can aid another player, or attempt to interfere when an enemy attacks an ally. Other actions may also be available such as “warn”. Details are available from the DM on request. An interesting house rule. This certainly would make death a more substantial penalty, particularly at high levels where the 500 gp component cost of a raise dead ritual becomes negligible. Does the party stay near the city of Manifest? If you make the process much more difficult at lower levels, I think your players may be more likely to just make up new characters. Still, that's really just a player/DM preference issue there. 5.Encumbrance and weight are on the honor system and the DM can audit and impose penalties as he/she sees fit. Examples of acceptable encumbrance: Two swords, Two daggers, armor, backpack, bedroll. Unacceptable: Three long swords, a short sword, an axe, a dagger, a bow, shield, armor, backpack, bedroll, a sack of 1000 coins. I do the same thing. I don't feel like double-checking the bookkeeping of my PCs. Same goes for tracking arrows, rations, water, etc. If the story needs them to be without for some reason, that can always happen. 6.Prices of items in D&D 4e books are not set in stone and are influenced by factors such as availability, etc... Please don't assume prices are what they are in the PHB, Adventurer's Vault, or others. Those are guidelines only. A leather water skin is normally a gold, but in a desert it could be 5 gold or possibly even 10 or 15 gold depending on the NPC, location (such as desert), and if leather is not a common material. Fair enough, although the cost of mundane equipment will rapidly become meaningless as the PCs gain levels. As for magic items, the DMG already recommends a 10-40% mark-up on purchased items. 7.Battle Standards from the Adventurer's Vault are not used. I haven't read much on these yet- does this deserve its own house rule? What's so bad about them? 8.New PCs rolled up using 4d6 dice rolling (two columns) method will begin play with a magic item of some sort.. Meh. Do they get to roll new stats when they die? If so, this combined with rule #4 may result in a lot of new characters being rolled up... This may not be much of an issue. I actually think 4e works better with die-rolling than 3.x did, since the benefits of several high attributes decreases sharply. However, encounter design could be more challenging if one or more of your characters has stats substantially outside the norm. What exactly do you have against using a point-buy/array method? I honestly would prefer to let my players play the characters they want to play, not the ones the dice tell them they have to play. Just my thoughts on the issue.
#4 rickyh Sep 12, 2008 17:22:51	Seems a bit odd. First it adds complexity in the form of extra notes for each player. Next it favors players with area attacks. Finaly it breaks party unity by having some random character (most likely a wizard) level up before others which is not really fun for the rest of the party. Edit: Unless across the board meant to all characters... Then, pretty cool. Actually helps party unity. Everyone cheering on a crit. Yes it does mean that actually. If anyone rolls a crit. all get this bonus. There are no critcal hits or fumbles with skills in 4E. Correct, it is a clarifying statement for the players. On the .pdf I made its called Clarifications and House Rules. I didn't make that clear here, sorry for the confusion. I find that some player roll a 17-20 on a skill check and feel "entitled" to a a success especially when adding in their various bonuses. So its really just a clarification. Seems artitrary. In the past editions since the paladin was so much more powerful that other characters it was given rules to balance it. Now that it has been balanced, this seems unneeded. Might as well do it to Clerics too. At least to be consistent. Its not needed from a mechanics point of view or balance reasons I agree. It's more for rp reasons; powers are still granted by the gods and they don't tend to favor those who turn from them. I do agree with the Cleric though, and will also apply it to them. I like the ghost stuff but limiting the deaths seems arbitrary. Can you are least save up deaths so if you never died until Epic do you have 2 extra unused lives left? No they cannot be saved at this point. But that's a possibility. One player is for permanent character death, and one player believes it should have much more severe penalties than the PHB, and just be able to be brought to a cleric and revived. I'm not sure exactly where the other two stand on it. But I also tend to agree with these players above. Seems fine. Also good, not sure if that is a house rule though. I think they mention it in the DMG. Could be wrong about that, but either way it seems rational. This is just a subset of section 6. Again, just a clarification against player entitlement. So they understand an item can be surprisingly prohibitive (a +2 sword costing 18,000gp) or surprisingly available (a +2 sword costing 100gp).
#5 rickyh Sep 12, 2008 17:35:36	An interesting set of house rules. Here's what I think, since you asked: Why grant extra experience on a lucky die roll? Or maybe better yet- what do you expect this rule to accomplish? 4e is designed around keeping the PCs at the same level, and while this small addition of experience probably won't make the difference, it feels unnecessary. If you really want to give the players some token xp reward for doing something "cool", why not let each player award a 25-50 xp prize to someone who did something interesting at the end of each game? It'd have the same overall effect, but give the players control over it. Skill checks don't have critical successes or fumbles in 4e (or in 3.x for that matter). As for automatic success, that's a good idea- if the players should have no chance in failing at a task, why make them roll? I think that automatic failures need to be handled carefully, though. Why I would agree that a 3rd level party probably shouldn't be able to intimidate an adult black dragon on a lucky roll, they might be able to if they came up with a really good plan (and maybe followed it up with a lucky roll or two). The hardest shift for me as a DM in playing 4e is about trying to say "yes" to my players more often. This strikes me as a needless punishment against any paladins in your game. The classes are balanced as they are- this simply makes the paladin a weaker choice. Besides, the gods are much less-defined in 4e. What does it mean to be faithful to your deity? There's a lot of potential gray area in there. If you have any paladins (or clerics for that matter- can they be "unfaithful" and keep their powers?) that start acting "out of code" and damaging the storyline, talk to them about it after the game. An interesting house rule. This certainly would make death a more substantial penalty, particularly at high levels where the 500 gp component cost of a raise dead ritual becomes negligible. Does the party stay near the city of Manifest? If you make the process much more difficult at lower levels, I think your players may be more likely to just make up new characters. Still, that's really just a player/DM preference issue there. I do the same thing. I don't feel like double-checking the bookkeeping of my PCs. Same goes for tracking arrows, rations, water, etc. If the story needs them to be without for some reason, that can always happen. Fair enough, although the cost of mundane equipment will rapidly become meaningless as the PCs gain levels. As for magic items, the DMG already recommends a 10-40% mark-up on purchased items. I haven't read much on these yet- does this deserve its own house rule? What's so bad about them? Meh. Do they get to roll new stats when they die? If so, this combined with rule #4 may result in a lot of new characters being rolled up... This may not be much of an issue. I actually think 4e works better with die-rolling than 3.x did, since the benefits of several high attributes decreases sharply. However, encounter design could be more challenging if one or more of your characters has stats substantially outside the norm. What exactly do you have against using a point-buy/array method? I honestly would prefer to let my players play the characters they want to play, not the ones the dice tell them they have to play. Just my thoughts on the issue. On rule #: 1. Applies to everyone, all pcs get ep when anyone crits. Just a little something extra they like to keep track of and keep a record of and try to beat their "record" 2. Is a clarification 3. Applies to clerics and paladins. I would speak with the player before assigning the punishment. In my homebrew world of Rene, the gods have not been diminished and still grant the powers to them. This particular one I'm not so concerned with for balance. Its more for an RP story reason. 4. The game is a bit grittier than normal. Sometimes good heroes don't get back up essentially the majority of the players don't like being able to come back so thats not a particular issue with my group. 5. Me too 6. Yeah, its just a clarification. In case for some reason a +1 long sword would cost 10,000gp or could cost 50sp. 7. I've read some on them. I'd be willing to revisit it. I just don't like the idea of "totems" or the PCs and monsters constantly going back and forth trying to pull up each others flags, replanting them, moving them around, etc... 8. I agree with you on letting them play the characters they want to play. They can freely choose the other two methods. The dice rolls may allow them to play a really GOOD character, or give them a little bit of a handicap in some manner. But it allows players to understand that stats aren't that big of a deal, and a good "character" can have some bad stats. Thanks for your input