Homebrew stuff for Swordmages. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Chameleon-X Jan 28, 2010 10:01:07	I made a bunch of feats and powers, and a few new class features. I also made up a new build: the Interceptor Swordmage; his thing is attacking enemies from afar with ranged attacks until they trigger his aegis, then he swaps places with his ally to take the hit. I also made up options for a dual-wielding swordmage. Let me know what you guys think. New Class Features Aegis of Interception You form an arcane bond with your allies that lets you quickly take an attack meant for them. At-Will • Arcane, Teleportation Minor Action Close Burst 2 Target: One creature Effect: You mark the target. The target remains marked until you use this power against another target. If you mark other creatures using other powers, the target is still marked. A target can be subject to only one mark at a time, and a new mark supersedes a mark already in place. When the target makes an attack which doesn't include you as a target, it takes a -2 penalty to its attack rolls for that attack. In addition, if you are within 10 squares of the target you may use an immediate interrupt to swap places with one target of that attack. You become the target of the attack instead of the creature you swapped places with. If the attack hits you you gain temporary hit points equal to 5 + your Wisdom modifier before the attack is resolved. This increases to 10 + your Wisdom modifier at 11th level, and 15 + your Wisdom modifier at 21st level. Blade Warding (Choose this feature in place of Swordmage Warding) The first Swordmages were accustomed to fighting with a sword and shield, and thus it was natural for them to channel their arcane power into a field of magical force for added defense. However, that style is far too cautious (and boring) for you. Instead, you have learned how to channel your magic through two blades instead of one, allowing you to quickly shift between defensive and offensive styles of combat. While you are wielding two Light Blades, two Heavy Blades, or a Light Blade and a Heavy Blade, you generate a corona of magical energy around your weapons. You may add a portion of your Wisdom, Strength, or Constitution modifier as a bonus to either AC or to damage rolls, dividing the total bonus between the two scores. For example, if your Strength modifier was +3, you could choose to gain a +1 bonus to AC and a +2 bonus to damage, or a +3 bonus to AC and no bonus to damage. You may change how you allocate the total bonus once per round as a free action, but the total bonus to each score may not exceed +3 (you couldn't, for example, choose to gain +5 to AC and +0 to damage). In addition, if you have the Swordbond Class Feature, you may attune both blades using that feature, and may recall both with a single action. Arcane Agility (Choose this feature in place of Swordbond): You may use your Wisdom modifier, rather than your Constitution modifier to determine your hit points at first level. In addition, you may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength or Constitution modifier to determine your Fortitude defense.
#2 heathan_v20 Jan 28, 2010 13:41:30	I like the first class feature Aegis of Intercept, awesome idea really. The Blade Warding seems to be complicated (perhaps rather then a bonus to defense you grant a pure bonus to attacks). The other ability I'm not sure about either, it all looks good from a quick glance. I'll look over the powers later on and give you my oppinion.
#3 Pramxnim Jan 28, 2010 15:10:45	I must take my hat off to you for the awesome Aegis of Interception concept! I'm itching to play one already! However, there are two questions I want to ask you about the class feature: 1. Do you gain the temporary hit points before or after the attack is resolved? If it's before, then you can soften the blow somewhat, but if it's after the attack, then you can make use of any temporary hit points you had before you received the blow. It could go both ways, but what do you, as its creator, think should be best? I'm partial towards letting the PC choose when to gain the temp hps, but is that too powerful an option? 2. Is it really necessary to rely on Dexterity for the Interceptor feats? Not only is Dex redundant with Intelligence for your AC and Reflex, the class feature then requires both Dex and Wis to be high to take the feats attributed to it, which is not the case with the other 3 Aegis. I would either change the prerequisites to rely on Wis, or change the class feature to rely on Dex instead of Wis. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to gain temp hp based on your Dex modifier, personally. I understand your reasoning behind separating the class feature into Dex and Wis, seeing as you gave an option to have Dex as Fortitude defense and Wis as starting hp but... hmm... actually it's cool as it is. I'll have to run some playtests to see how well it works in real play, but it doesn't seem to gimp the character that much. Blade Warding This is a great class feature, and I like what you did to balance it with the old Swordmage Warding while still giving the player options to mess around with. I was about to point out that you should limit it to +3 AC at Heroic, but you've already done just that. The feat Two-Weapon Defense does what Improved Swordmage Warding did, and Improved Blade Warding is a good counterpart to Greater Swordmage Warding (albeit a bit weaker on the defense side since it no longer boosts your NADs. There's a typo in that feat btw, it should say "At 21st level" instead of "At 11th level" Feats I like what you've done to improve Swordbond, but it's still quite situational. Seeing as magic thrown weapons return to your hand after you throw them anyways, it likely won't see that much use, but still cool nonetheless. You should clarify Dual Assault, since as written it will be target for debate, the same way the new Whirling Barbarian powers are. Maybe a line that reads "The damage dealt by your MBA is still counted as one single damage roll" to prevent stacking static modifiers. Two-Weapon Feint is awesome like an Avenger's OoE, but might be more powerful since it doesn't require a condition like OoE, and does essentially the same thing (but with less critfishing, since you only get your second attack if the first one missed). Beware powers that can be used as MBAs, and watch out for potential balance issues, but as an Epic Feat, I think this is ok. Swordmage Implement Mastery is odd in that it grants a 18-20 crit range, which is unseen anywhere except paragon path features. I know that Swordmages lack a good crit boosting feat, what with their powers being split between Weapon and Implement, but the same applies to Paladins and Avengers. I would put it at 19-20, just in case. EDIT: WHOA! Did a double-take when I saw Lightning Ward. Are you sure you want to give Swordmages an even BETTER version of Twin Strike? Please please please change it to work like Whirling Rend or Dual Strike. I'm sure people don't want another multiattack monstrosity to rear its ugly head as an at-will. The Lightning Keyword just adds insult to injury, since you can benefit from Oncoming Storm and other such feats.
#4 Janx_14 Jan 28, 2010 15:32:16	Lightning Ward should be 2 targets like the revised dual-strike and never have the option of 1. The option of a ranged weapon on the swordmage is kind of pointless. Eruption Strike is effectively a better version of a whirling barbarian encounter power. Sure, your off-hand weapon COULD be smaller, but you can easily MC ranger and dual-wield bastard swords. It is nice to see someone make a dual-wielding swordmage though.
#5 SgtFreakshow Jan 28, 2010 18:36:05	I really like the homebrew stuff you've done here, I have afew things that you should look at though: Features: Blade Warding: This feature is inherently more powerful than Swordmage Warding and I don't think that's a good idea, dual wielders generally deal more damage than sword n' boarders / great weapon users so I'd rather see this feature as less powerful than swordmage warding, it is a minor thing though. Feats: Slashing Recall, Swordbond Riposte & Ultimate Swordbond: I like that you're making feats that makes the swordbond class feature useful, I'm just worried that these feats might be misused, like player drops his weapon before he moves each turn to cash in extra melee basic attacks, I haven't checked if this is possible, just please make sure that these cannot be exploited. Powers: Lightning Ward: As others have noted this one is a wee bit too powerful. Acidic Spate: I think this one is way too powerful, compared to other at-will burst 1/blast 3 attacks dealing 1[W] damage is alot (using a bastard sword in mainhand that is 1d10 and with a craghammer it's 1d10 brutal), this compared to Scorching Burst's 1d6 and Burning Spray's 1d8 is quite powerful, on top of that there's an attack roll penalty. Eruption Blade: Couldn't help but notice that dealing strength mod fire damage on secondary attack goes against what seems to be your purpose behind dual-wielding swordmages (that they should be usable nomatter what Aegis you specialise in) Arcing Strike: See Eruption Blade. Sacrifical Warding: Getting free healing without using surges should always be daily powers, as this ability works right now after each fight the swordmage only needs to do one short rest for each surge he wants to use without using the surges to heal him up (effectively the same problem as in 3.5 when there came PC races with fast healing, no rule ever stated that fast healing only applied in combat), furthermore you should be aware that the swordmage can use this power without suffering from the drawback if he always uses it for temporary hit points one round before kicking in the door to the next dungeon room. Apart from these little points I think this is great work, I'll prolly implement some of this stuff if I'm going to GM a group with a swordmage...
#6 Chameleon-X Jan 28, 2010 23:53:04	I must take my hat off to you for the awesome Aegis of Interception concept! I'm itching to play one already! However, there are two questions I want to ask you about the class feature: 1. Do you gain the temporary hit points before or after the attack is resolved? If it's before, then you can soften the blow somewhat, but if it's after the attack, then you can make use of any temporary hit points you had before you received the blow. It could go both ways, but what do you, as its creator, think should be best? I'm partial towards letting the PC choose when to gain the temp hps, but is that too powerful an option? It's supposed to take effect before the attack. I just reworded it to reflect that. 2. Is it really necessary to rely on Dexterity for the Interceptor feats? Not only is Dex redundant with Intelligence for your AC and Reflex, the class feature then requires both Dex and Wis to be high to take the feats attributed to it, which is not the case with the other 3 Aegis. I would either change the prerequisites to rely on Wis, or change the class feature to rely on Dex instead of Wis. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to gain temp hp based on your Dex modifier, personally. I understand your reasoning behind separating the class feature into Dex and Wis, seeing as you gave an option to have Dex as Fortitude defense and Wis as starting hp but... hmm... actually it's cool as it is. I'll have to run some playtests to see how well it works in real play, but it doesn't seem to gimp the character that much. Actually, I don't know why I put Dex on those feats. It was supposed to be Wis. I fixed them. This is a great class feature, and I like what you did to balance it with the old Swordmage Warding while still giving the player options to mess around with. I was about to point out that you should limit it to +3 AC at Heroic, but you've already done just that. The feat Two-Weapon Defense does what Improved Swordmage Warding did, and Improved Blade Warding is a good counterpart to Greater Swordmage Warding (albeit a bit weaker on the defense side since it no longer boosts your NADs. There's a typo in that feat btw, it should say "At 21st level" instead of "At 11th level" Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I was actually considering adding a feat that had it apply to NADs. I like what you've done to improve Swordbond, but it's still quite situational. Seeing as magic thrown weapons return to your hand after you throw them anyways, it likely won't see that much use, but still cool nonetheless. True, but you can choose not to catch them when they do. If, for example, you use a standard action to attack an enemy, let the weapon fall in your space, move action to Armathor's Step over to another enemy, then Minor (with Distant Swordbond) to recall your weapon you can get in a free basic attack. You should clarify Dual Assault, since as written it will be target for debate, the same way the new Whirling Barbarian powers are. Maybe a line that reads "The damage dealt by your MBA is still counted as one single damage roll" to prevent stacking static modifiers. Fixed. Two-Weapon Feint is awesome like an Avenger's OoE, but might be more powerful since it doesn't require a condition like OoE, and does essentially the same thing (but with less critfishing, since you only get your second attack if the first one missed). Beware powers that can be used as MBAs, and watch out for potential balance issues, but as an Epic Feat, I think this is ok. Added a line to prevent MBA abuse. Swordmage Implement Mastery is odd in that it grants a 18-20 crit range, which is unseen anywhere except paragon path features. I know that Swordmages lack a good crit boosting feat, what with their powers being split between Weapon and Implement, but the same applies to Paladins and Avengers. I would put it at 19-20, just in case. Oops, that was actually supposed to be 19-20. It's basically a Swordmage version of the ___ Implement Mastery feats in Arcane power (which the Swordmage didn't get for reasons which are obvious, but I choose to ignore for the sake of symmetry). EDIT: WHOA! Did a double-take when I saw Lightning Ward. Are you sure you want to give Swordmages an even BETTER version of Twin Strike? Please please please change it to work like Whirling Rend or Dual Strike. I'm sure people don't want another multiattack monstrosity to rear its ugly head as an at-will. The Lightning Keyword just adds insult to injury, since you can benefit from Oncoming Storm and other such feats. Fixed. The Lightning thing I'll keep for now.
#7 Chameleon-X Jan 29, 2010 0:27:34	I really like the homebrew stuff you've done here, I have afew things that you should look at though: Features: Blade Warding: This feature is inherently more powerful than Swordmage Warding and I don't think that's a good idea, dual wielders generally deal more damage than sword n' boarders / great weapon users so I'd rather see this feature as less powerful than swordmage warding, it is a minor thing though. Well, it has a tradeoff inherent in the fact that it uses your secondary score, and that you have to balance the stat between the two bonuses. Assuming you start off with a 20 in your secondary stat (which would, presumably, make your attack stat suffer in turn), you would have only a +5 to divide between attack and defense, and only +3 of that can be used for either stat. Once you hit Level 8 it evens out to +3/+3, but the maximum you're going to get is +5/+5, which is 1 less than with Improved Swordmage Warding and Greater Swordmage Warding. Taking Two-Weapon Defense will bring your AC up to +6, though. But this is all assuming you choose to max out your secondary stat instead of INT, which would lower your attack bonus, and thus your DPR. I'm not sure what the exact impact would be, but I don't think it's that unbalanced. Feats: Slashing Recall, Swordbond Riposte & Ultimate Swordbond: I like that you're making feats that makes the swordbond class feature useful, I'm just worried that these feats might be misused, like player drops his weapon before he moves each turn to cash in extra melee basic attacks, I haven't checked if this is possible, just please make sure that these cannot be exploited. Fixed the wording on some of the powers so that it's harder to abuse. For Slashing Recall, it can still be used for extra attacks, but I changed it to one creature whose space the sword passes through, so it would take a little extra work to position yourself to use it repeatedly. For Swordbond Riposte, this was basically intended to pull a Luke Skywalker; call your sword into your hand for a quick strike just as your enemy is about to hit you. It's a bit strong, but limited by the fact that it uses up your Immediate Action, so you can either abuse it, or use your Aegis, but not both. Ultimate Swordbond, I took out the MBA (it's redundant with Slashing Recall, anyway). Powers: Lightning Ward: As others have noted this one is a wee bit too powerful. Acidic Spate: I think this one is way too powerful, compared to other at-will burst 1/blast 3 attacks dealing 1[W] damage is alot (using a bastard sword in mainhand that is 1d10 and with a craghammer it's 1d10 brutal), this compared to Scorching Burst's 1d6 and Burning Spray's 1d8 is quite powerful, on top of that there's an attack roll penalty. Eruption Blade: Couldn't help but notice that dealing strength mod fire damage on secondary attack goes against what seems to be your purpose behind dual-wielding swordmages (that they should be usable nomatter what Aegis you specialise in) Arcing Strike: See Eruption Blade. Sacrifical Warding: Getting free healing without using surges should always be daily powers, as this ability works right now after each fight the swordmage only needs to do one short rest for each surge he wants to use without using the surges to heal him up (effectively the same problem as in 3.5 when there came PC races with fast healing, no rule ever stated that fast healing only applied in combat), furthermore you should be aware that the swordmage can use this power without suffering from the drawback if he always uses it for temporary hit points one round before kicking in the door to the next dungeon room. Apart from these little points I think this is great work, I'll prolly implement some of this stuff if I'm going to GM a group with a swordmage... Acidic Spate nerfed. Lightning Ward I nerfed. Eruption Blade I changed around a bit in addition to the fix. Arcing Blade I fixed Sacrificial Warding fixed.
#8 SgtFreakshow Jan 29, 2010 5:23:26	I really like the homebrew stuff you've done here, I have afew things that you should look at though: Features: Blade Warding: This feature is inherently more powerful than Swordmage Warding and I don't think that's a good idea, dual wielders generally deal more damage than sword n' boarders / great weapon users so I'd rather see this feature as less powerful than swordmage warding, it is a minor thing though. Well, it has a tradeoff inherent in the fact that it uses your secondary score, and that you have to balance the stat between the two bonuses. Assuming you start off with a 20 in your secondary stat (which would, presumably, make your attack stat suffer in turn), you would have only a +5 to divide between attack and defense, and only +3 of that can be used for either stat. Once you hit Level 8 it evens out to +3/+3, but the maximum you're going to get is +5/+5, which is 1 less than with Improved Swordmage Warding and Greater Swordmage Warding. Taking Two-Weapon Defense will bring your AC up to +6, though. But this is all assuming you choose to max out your secondary stat instead of INT, which would lower your attack bonus, and thus your DPR. I'm not sure what the exact impact would be, but I don't think it's that unbalanced. I don't think it's really unbalanced either, it's just that for a swordmage starting with 16 in his secondary stat this feature grants exactly the same AC bonus as a one-handed wielding swordmage gains and 2 more than a great weapon wielding one gains, even though he'll probably do more damage than either of the two and with 18 in his secondary stat it'll be more powerful. I think that dual-wielding should come with a penalty compared to sword n' boarding / great weaponing, because dual-wielders usually are the highest damage dealing melee combatants. But as I said it's a minor thing and I don't find it unbalancing, I'd just prefer dual-wielders to have mechanical drawbacks as their powers are usually more powerful than those of non-dual-wielders.
#9 Chameleon-X Jan 29, 2010 11:45:27	Ah, okay. I'll have to think of some mechanical drawbacks to help balance it... Oh, btw, I added in Level 9 Daily powers, since I forgot those for some reason before. EDIT: Also added a couple Paragon Paths.
#10 tiamatdragonwing Feb 03, 2010 12:07:35	really like what you have done here, especially the swordbond feats, though my only issue is the Swordbond Riposte feat, part of me feels it should be an immediate reaction or come with an AC penalty to discourage abuse, since the way it is worded now with or without your weapon you effectively have full AC every turn as long as you don't drop more than once a turn plus an attack against a melee attacker. Frost backlash which effectively does the same is a daily and while BMA does far less damage feel personally even with the reduced damage such an attack would count as an encouter in terms of balance.
#11 Chameleon-X Feb 03, 2010 15:19:09	really like what you have done here, especially the swordbond feats, though my only issue is the Swordbond Riposte feat, part of me feels it should be an immediate reaction or come with an AC penalty to discourage abuse, since the way it is worded now with or without your weapon you effectively have full AC every turn as long as you don't drop more than once a turn plus an attack against a melee attacker. Frost backlash which effectively does the same is a daily and while BMA does far less damage feel personally even with the reduced damage such an attack would count as an encouter in terms of balance. I don't know if this addresses all of the issues, but I turned Swordbond Riposte into a feat power. It's now an Interrupt triggered by being damaged by an attack. Therefore, the power only triggers after you've been hit by an attack, so you don't get to drop your weapon and still have your Warding bonus. It also, relatedly, doesn't allow you to dodge the damage the attack does unless (like Luke Skywalker) you kill the target with your Interrupt. Finally, instead of a MBA I made the attack and damage part of the power, so it doesn't gain the benefit of all the myriad ways of boosting MBA attack/damage rolls, thereby (hopefully) balancing it's effectiveness somewhat. EDIT: I also reworked the Blade Warding feature to add a little balancing factor to it. As it stands now, the Warding no longer limits you to Light Armor, but in total provides 2 points less AC at maximum than other Swordmages, in exchange for a +4 to damage.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Chameleon-X

Jan 28, 2010 10:01:07

I made a bunch of feats and powers, and a few new class features. I also made up a new build: the Interceptor Swordmage; his thing is attacking enemies from afar with ranged attacks until they trigger his aegis, then he swaps places with his ally to take the hit. I also made up options for a dual-wielding swordmage. Let me know what you guys think.

New Class Features

Aegis of Interception
You form an arcane bond with your allies that lets you quickly take an attack meant for them.
At-Will • Arcane, Teleportation
Minor Action Close Burst 2
Target: One creature
Effect: You mark the target. The target remains marked until you use this power against another target. If you mark other creatures using other powers, the target is still marked. A target can be subject to only one mark at a time, and a new mark supersedes a mark already in place.
When the target makes an attack which doesn't include you as a target, it takes a -2 penalty to its attack rolls for that attack. In addition, if you are within 10 squares of the target you may use an immediate interrupt to swap places with one target of that attack. You become the target of the attack instead of the creature you swapped places with. If the attack hits you you gain temporary hit points equal to 5 + your Wisdom modifier before the attack is resolved. This increases to 10 + your Wisdom modifier at 11th level, and 15 + your Wisdom modifier at 21st level.

Blade Warding (Choose this feature in place of Swordmage Warding)
The first Swordmages were accustomed to fighting with a sword and shield, and thus it was natural for them to channel their arcane power into a field of magical force for added defense. However, that style is far too cautious (and boring) for you. Instead, you have learned how to channel your magic through two blades instead of one, allowing you to quickly shift between defensive and offensive styles of combat.

While you are wielding two Light Blades, two Heavy Blades, or a Light Blade and a Heavy Blade, you generate a corona of magical energy around your weapons. You may add a portion of your Wisdom, Strength, or Constitution modifier as a bonus to either AC or to damage rolls, dividing the total bonus between the two scores.

For example, if your Strength modifier was +3, you could choose to gain a +1 bonus to AC and a +2 bonus to damage, or a +3 bonus to AC and no bonus to damage. You may change how you allocate the total bonus once per round as a free action, but the total bonus to each score may not exceed +3 (you couldn't, for example, choose to gain +5 to AC and +0 to damage).

In addition, if you have the Swordbond Class Feature, you may attune both blades using that feature, and may recall both with a single action.

Arcane Agility (Choose this feature in place of Swordbond): You may use your Wisdom modifier, rather than your Constitution modifier to determine your hit points at first level. In addition, you may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength or Constitution modifier to determine your Fortitude defense.

heathan_v20

Jan 28, 2010 13:41:30

I like the first class feature Aegis of Intercept, awesome idea really.
The Blade Warding seems to be complicated (perhaps rather then a bonus to defense you grant a pure bonus to attacks). The other ability I'm not sure about either, it all looks good from a quick glance.
I'll look over the powers later on and give you my oppinion.

Pramxnim

Jan 28, 2010 15:10:45

I must take my hat off to you for the awesome Aegis of Interception concept! I'm itching to play one already! However, there are two questions I want to ask you about the class feature:

1. Do you gain the temporary hit points before or after the attack is resolved? If it's before, then you can soften the blow somewhat, but if it's after the attack, then you can make use of any temporary hit points you had before you received the blow. It could go both ways, but what do you, as its creator, think should be best? I'm partial towards letting the PC choose when to gain the temp hps, but is that too powerful an option?

2. Is it really necessary to rely on Dexterity for the Interceptor feats? Not only is Dex redundant with Intelligence for your AC and Reflex, the class feature then requires both Dex and Wis to be high to take the feats attributed to it, which is not the case with the other 3 Aegis. I would either change the prerequisites to rely on Wis, or change the class feature to rely on Dex instead of Wis. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to gain temp hp based on your Dex modifier, personally. I understand your reasoning behind separating the class feature into Dex and Wis, seeing as you gave an option to have Dex as Fortitude defense and Wis as starting hp but... hmm... actually it's cool as it is. I'll have to run some playtests to see how well it works in real play, but it doesn't seem to gimp the character that much.

Blade Warding

This is a great class feature, and I like what you did to balance it with the old Swordmage Warding while still giving the player options to mess around with. I was about to point out that you should limit it to +3 AC at Heroic, but you've already done just that. The feat Two-Weapon Defense does what Improved Swordmage Warding did, and Improved Blade Warding is a good counterpart to Greater Swordmage Warding (albeit a bit weaker on the defense side since it no longer boosts your NADs. There's a typo in that feat btw, it should say "At 21st level" instead of "At 11th level"

Feats

I like what you've done to improve Swordbond, but it's still quite situational. Seeing as magic thrown weapons return to your hand after you throw them anyways, it likely won't see that much use, but still cool nonetheless.

You should clarify Dual Assault, since as written it will be target for debate, the same way the new Whirling Barbarian powers are. Maybe a line that reads "The damage dealt by your MBA is still counted as one single damage roll" to prevent stacking static modifiers.

Two-Weapon Feint is awesome like an Avenger's OoE, but might be more powerful since it doesn't require a condition like OoE, and does essentially the same thing (but with less critfishing, since you only get your second attack if the first one missed). Beware powers that can be used as MBAs, and watch out for potential balance issues, but as an Epic Feat, I think this is ok.

Swordmage Implement Mastery is odd in that it grants a 18-20 crit range, which is unseen anywhere except paragon path features. I know that Swordmages lack a good crit boosting feat, what with their powers being split between Weapon and Implement, but the same applies to Paladins and Avengers. I would put it at 19-20, just in case.

EDIT: WHOA! Did a double-take when I saw Lightning Ward. Are you sure you want to give Swordmages an even BETTER version of Twin Strike? Please please please change it to work like Whirling Rend or Dual Strike. I'm sure people don't want another multiattack monstrosity to rear its ugly head as an at-will. The Lightning Keyword just adds insult to injury, since you can benefit from Oncoming Storm and other such feats.

Janx_14

Jan 28, 2010 15:32:16

Lightning Ward should be 2 targets like the revised dual-strike and never have the option of 1. The option of a ranged weapon on the swordmage is kind of pointless.

Eruption Strike is effectively a better version of a whirling barbarian encounter power. Sure, your off-hand weapon COULD be smaller, but you can easily MC ranger and dual-wield bastard swords.

It is nice to see someone make a dual-wielding swordmage though.

SgtFreakshow

Jan 28, 2010 18:36:05

I really like the homebrew stuff you've done here, I have afew things that you should look at though:

Features:

Blade Warding: This feature is inherently more powerful than Swordmage Warding and I don't think that's a good idea, dual wielders generally deal more damage than sword n' boarders / great weapon users so I'd rather see this feature as less powerful than swordmage warding, it is a minor thing though.

Feats:

Slashing Recall, Swordbond Riposte & Ultimate Swordbond: I like that you're making feats that makes the swordbond class feature useful, I'm just worried that these feats might be misused, like player drops his weapon before he moves each turn to cash in extra melee basic attacks, I haven't checked if this is possible, just please make sure that these cannot be exploited.

Powers:

Lightning Ward: As others have noted this one is a wee bit too powerful.

Acidic Spate: I think this one is way too powerful, compared to other at-will burst 1/blast 3 attacks dealing 1[W] damage is alot (using a bastard sword in mainhand that is 1d10 and with a craghammer it's 1d10 brutal), this compared to Scorching Burst's 1d6 and Burning Spray's 1d8 is quite powerful, on top of that there's an attack roll penalty.

Eruption Blade: Couldn't help but notice that dealing strength mod fire damage on secondary attack goes against what seems to be your purpose behind dual-wielding swordmages (that they should be usable nomatter what Aegis you specialise in)

Arcing Strike: See Eruption Blade.

Sacrifical Warding: Getting free healing without using surges should always be daily powers, as this ability works right now after each fight the swordmage only needs to do one short rest for each surge he wants to use without using the surges to heal him up (effectively the same problem as in 3.5 when there came PC races with fast healing, no rule ever stated that fast healing only applied in combat), furthermore you should be aware that the swordmage can use this power without suffering from the drawback if he always uses it for temporary hit points one round before kicking in the door to the next dungeon room.

Apart from these little points I think this is great work, I'll prolly implement some of this stuff if I'm going to GM a group with a swordmage...

Chameleon-X

Jan 28, 2010 23:53:04

I must take my hat off to you for the awesome Aegis of Interception concept! I'm itching to play one already! However, there are two questions I want to ask you about the class feature:

1. Do you gain the temporary hit points before or after the attack is resolved? If it's before, then you can soften the blow somewhat, but if it's after the attack, then you can make use of any temporary hit points you had before you received the blow. It could go both ways, but what do you, as its creator, think should be best? I'm partial towards letting the PC choose when to gain the temp hps, but is that too powerful an option?

It's supposed to take effect before the attack. I just reworded it to reflect that.

2. Is it really necessary to rely on Dexterity for the Interceptor feats? Not only is Dex redundant with Intelligence for your AC and Reflex, the class feature then requires both Dex and Wis to be high to take the feats attributed to it, which is not the case with the other 3 Aegis. I would either change the prerequisites to rely on Wis, or change the class feature to rely on Dex instead of Wis. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to gain temp hp based on your Dex modifier, personally. I understand your reasoning behind separating the class feature into Dex and Wis, seeing as you gave an option to have Dex as Fortitude defense and Wis as starting hp but... hmm... actually it's cool as it is. I'll have to run some playtests to see how well it works in real play, but it doesn't seem to gimp the character that much.

Actually, I don't know why I put Dex on those feats. It was supposed to be Wis. I fixed them.

This is a great class feature, and I like what you did to balance it with the old Swordmage Warding while still giving the player options to mess around with. I was about to point out that you should limit it to +3 AC at Heroic, but you've already done just that. The feat Two-Weapon Defense does what Improved Swordmage Warding did, and Improved Blade Warding is a good counterpart to Greater Swordmage Warding (albeit a bit weaker on the defense side since it no longer boosts your NADs. There's a typo in that feat btw, it should say "At 21st level" instead of "At 11th level"

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I was actually considering adding a feat that had it apply to NADs.

I like what you've done to improve Swordbond, but it's still quite situational. Seeing as magic thrown weapons return to your hand after you throw them anyways, it likely won't see that much use, but still cool nonetheless.

True, but you can choose not to catch them when they do. If, for example, you use a standard action to attack an enemy, let the weapon fall in your space, move action to Armathor's Step over to another enemy, then Minor (with Distant Swordbond) to recall your weapon you can get in a free basic attack.

You should clarify Dual Assault, since as written it will be target for debate, the same way the new Whirling Barbarian powers are. Maybe a line that reads "The damage dealt by your MBA is still counted as one single damage roll" to prevent stacking static modifiers.

Fixed.

Two-Weapon Feint is awesome like an Avenger's OoE, but might be more powerful since it doesn't require a condition like OoE, and does essentially the same thing (but with less critfishing, since you only get your second attack if the first one missed). Beware powers that can be used as MBAs, and watch out for potential balance issues, but as an Epic Feat, I think this is ok.

Added a line to prevent MBA abuse.

Swordmage Implement Mastery is odd in that it grants a 18-20 crit range, which is unseen anywhere except paragon path features. I know that Swordmages lack a good crit boosting feat, what with their powers being split between Weapon and Implement, but the same applies to Paladins and Avengers. I would put it at 19-20, just in case.

Oops, that was actually supposed to be 19-20. It's basically a Swordmage version of the ___ Implement Mastery feats in Arcane power (which the Swordmage didn't get for reasons which are obvious, but I choose to ignore for the sake of symmetry).

EDIT: WHOA! Did a double-take when I saw Lightning Ward. Are you sure you want to give Swordmages an even BETTER version of Twin Strike? Please please please change it to work like Whirling Rend or Dual Strike. I'm sure people don't want another multiattack monstrosity to rear its ugly head as an at-will. The Lightning Keyword just adds insult to injury, since you can benefit from Oncoming Storm and other such feats.

Fixed. The Lightning thing I'll keep for now.

Chameleon-X

Jan 29, 2010 0:27:34

I really like the homebrew stuff you've done here, I have afew things that you should look at though:

Features:

Blade Warding: This feature is inherently more powerful than Swordmage Warding and I don't think that's a good idea, dual wielders generally deal more damage than sword n' boarders / great weapon users so I'd rather see this feature as less powerful than swordmage warding, it is a minor thing though.

Well, it has a tradeoff inherent in the fact that it uses your secondary score, and that you have to balance the stat between the two bonuses. Assuming you start off with a 20 in your secondary stat (which would, presumably, make your attack stat suffer in turn), you would have only a +5 to divide between attack and defense, and only +3 of that can be used for either stat.

Once you hit Level 8 it evens out to +3/+3, but the maximum you're going to get is +5/+5, which is 1 less than with Improved Swordmage Warding and Greater Swordmage Warding. Taking Two-Weapon Defense will bring your AC up to +6, though. But this is all assuming you choose to max out your secondary stat instead of INT, which would lower your attack bonus, and thus your DPR. I'm not sure what the exact impact would be, but I don't think it's that unbalanced.

Feats:

Slashing Recall, Swordbond Riposte & Ultimate Swordbond: I like that you're making feats that makes the swordbond class feature useful, I'm just worried that these feats might be misused, like player drops his weapon before he moves each turn to cash in extra melee basic attacks, I haven't checked if this is possible, just please make sure that these cannot be exploited.

Fixed the wording on some of the powers so that it's harder to abuse. For Slashing Recall, it can still be used for extra attacks, but I changed it to one creature whose space the sword passes through, so it would take a little extra work to position yourself to use it repeatedly.

For Swordbond Riposte, this was basically intended to pull a Luke Skywalker; call your sword into your hand for a quick strike just as your enemy is about to hit you. It's a bit strong, but limited by the fact that it uses up your Immediate Action, so you can either abuse it, or use your Aegis, but not both.

Ultimate Swordbond, I took out the MBA (it's redundant with Slashing Recall, anyway).

Powers:

Lightning Ward: As others have noted this one is a wee bit too powerful.

Acidic Spate: I think this one is way too powerful, compared to other at-will burst 1/blast 3 attacks dealing 1[W] damage is alot (using a bastard sword in mainhand that is 1d10 and with a craghammer it's 1d10 brutal), this compared to Scorching Burst's 1d6 and Burning Spray's 1d8 is quite powerful, on top of that there's an attack roll penalty.

Eruption Blade: Couldn't help but notice that dealing strength mod fire damage on secondary attack goes against what seems to be your purpose behind dual-wielding swordmages (that they should be usable nomatter what Aegis you specialise in)

Arcing Strike: See Eruption Blade.

Sacrifical Warding: Getting free healing without using surges should always be daily powers, as this ability works right now after each fight the swordmage only needs to do one short rest for each surge he wants to use without using the surges to heal him up (effectively the same problem as in 3.5 when there came PC races with fast healing, no rule ever stated that fast healing only applied in combat), furthermore you should be aware that the swordmage can use this power without suffering from the drawback if he always uses it for temporary hit points one round before kicking in the door to the next dungeon room.

Apart from these little points I think this is great work, I'll prolly implement some of this stuff if I'm going to GM a group with a swordmage...

Acidic Spate nerfed.

Lightning Ward I nerfed.

Eruption Blade I changed around a bit in addition to the fix.

Arcing Blade I fixed

Sacrificial Warding fixed.

SgtFreakshow

Jan 29, 2010 5:23:26

I really like the homebrew stuff you've done here, I have afew things that you should look at though:

Features:

Blade Warding: This feature is inherently more powerful than Swordmage Warding and I don't think that's a good idea, dual wielders generally deal more damage than sword n' boarders / great weapon users so I'd rather see this feature as less powerful than swordmage warding, it is a minor thing though.

Well, it has a tradeoff inherent in the fact that it uses your secondary score, and that you have to balance the stat between the two bonuses. Assuming you start off with a 20 in your secondary stat (which would, presumably, make your attack stat suffer in turn), you would have only a +5 to divide between attack and defense, and only +3 of that can be used for either stat.

Once you hit Level 8 it evens out to +3/+3, but the maximum you're going to get is +5/+5, which is 1 less than with Improved Swordmage Warding and Greater Swordmage Warding. Taking Two-Weapon Defense will bring your AC up to +6, though. But this is all assuming you choose to max out your secondary stat instead of INT, which would lower your attack bonus, and thus your DPR. I'm not sure what the exact impact would be, but I don't think it's that unbalanced.

I don't think it's really unbalanced either, it's just that for a swordmage starting with 16 in his secondary stat this feature grants exactly the same AC bonus as a one-handed wielding swordmage gains and 2 more than a great weapon wielding one gains, even though he'll probably do more damage than either of the two and with 18 in his secondary stat it'll be more powerful.

I think that dual-wielding should come with a penalty compared to sword n' boarding / great weaponing, because dual-wielders usually are the highest damage dealing melee combatants.

But as I said it's a minor thing and I don't find it unbalancing, I'd just prefer dual-wielders to have mechanical drawbacks as their powers are usually more powerful than those of non-dual-wielders.

Chameleon-X

Jan 29, 2010 11:45:27

Ah, okay. I'll have to think of some mechanical drawbacks to help balance it...

Oh, btw, I added in Level 9 Daily powers, since I forgot those for some reason before.

EDIT: Also added a couple Paragon Paths.

#10

tiamatdragonwing

Feb 03, 2010 12:07:35

really like what you have done here, especially the swordbond feats, though my only issue is the Swordbond Riposte feat, part of me feels it should be an immediate reaction or come with an AC penalty to discourage abuse, since the way it is worded now with or without your weapon you effectively have full AC every turn as long as you don't drop more than once a turn plus an attack against a melee attacker.
Frost backlash which effectively does the same is a daily and while BMA does far less damage feel personally even with the reduced damage such an attack would count as an encouter in terms of balance.

#11

Chameleon-X

Feb 03, 2010 15:19:09

really like what you have done here, especially the swordbond feats, though my only issue is the Swordbond Riposte feat, part of me feels it should be an immediate reaction or come with an AC penalty to discourage abuse, since the way it is worded now with or without your weapon you effectively have full AC every turn as long as you don't drop more than once a turn plus an attack against a melee attacker.
Frost backlash which effectively does the same is a daily and while BMA does far less damage feel personally even with the reduced damage such an attack would count as an encouter in terms of balance.

I don't know if this addresses all of the issues, but I turned Swordbond Riposte into a feat power. It's now an Interrupt triggered by being damaged by an attack. Therefore, the power only triggers after you've been hit by an attack, so you don't get to drop your weapon and still have your Warding bonus. It also, relatedly, doesn't allow you to dodge the damage the attack does unless (like Luke Skywalker) you kill the target with your Interrupt. Finally, instead of a MBA I made the attack and damage part of the power, so it doesn't gain the benefit of all the myriad ways of boosting MBA attack/damage rolls, thereby (hopefully) balancing it's effectiveness somewhat.

EDIT: I also reworked the Blade Warding feature to add a little balancing factor to it. As it stands now, the Warding no longer limits you to Light Armor, but in total provides 2 points less AC at maximum than other Swordmages, in exchange for a +4 to damage.