Homebrew Wilder from 3.X PH (P.E.A.C.H.) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Homebrew Wilder from 3.X PH (P.E.A.C.H.)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
OskarOisinson
Apr 08, 2010 20:00:06 Hey so I was thinking of trying my hand at drafting a version of the XPH and it's supplement from 3.x for 4e. Toward that end, I've been working on a rather extensive Thri-Kreen write-up, which I will post once I've finished the Gythka and Chatchka based paragon paths I'm working on and I've also done a rough draft of the Wilder class. In the future I intend to do write-ups for Dromites, Maenads, Xephs, and perhaps Muls as well (just cause they seem fairly straight forward). I feel pretty confident about the Thri-Kreen having based much of it on pre-existing materials, for now though, I'd like to see people's thoughts on this outline of the Wilder before I move forward on writing up powers. I feel it's fairly balanced but I did write this all up in one day. It has what I'm hoping are some interesting and flavorful mechanics, which bring back the feel of the old Wilder while using healing surges and power points to limit abuse. Anyway, please give me some feedback and let me know what you think.
#2
OskarOisinson
Apr 08, 2010 20:00:23
Wilder
Class Traits:

Role: Striker. You channel raw psionic energy to destroy your enemies. You lean toward either defender or controller as a secondary role.
Power Source: Psionic. You have the inborn gift of psionic power. You unleash it by channeling your raw emotions and vitality.
Key Abilities: Wisdom, Constitution, Charisma
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Simple Ranged
Implements: Orbs, Staffs
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 14 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 6
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Choose four skills from the list below:
Arcana, Bluff, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering, Endurance, Heal, Intimidate, Insight, Perception
Class Features: Wild Surge, Psychic Enervation, Surging Euphoria, Wild Talent, Volatile Mind

Wild Surge: Once per encounter you may expend healing surges to boost your offensive power in the following way. You may spend 1 to 3 surges to gain a +1 to 3 bonus on your next attack. Additionally, for each surge you spend, that attack does extra psychic damage equal to ½ your level to all creatures in the attack’s affected area.

Psychic Enervation: After you use your Wild Surge class feature, you must make a saving throw to avoid becoming enervated. If you spent 1 surge, you make a saving throw. If you fail, you are dazed until the end of your next turn and suffer a -1 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws until the end of your next turn. If you spent 2 surges, you make a saving throw with a -5 penalty. If you fail, you are stunned until the end of your next turn and suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws for 2 rounds after that. If you spent three surges, you make a saving throw with a -10 penalty. If you fail, you are stunned until the end of your next turn, fall prone, and suffer a -3 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws for 3 rounds after that. There is no way to avoid these conditions and penalties apart from succeeding on the initial saving throw.

Surging Euphoria: If you succeed on your saving throw to avoid becoming enervated you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws for a number of rounds equal to the number of surges you spent on your wild surge. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.

Wild Talent: You gain the Psionic Focus class feature which acts like an augmentable at-will power. You also gain 1 power point that may only be used in conjunction with the Psionic Focus class feature.

Psionic Focus: At-will *Psionic   Wilder Feature
Standard Action (Special)                                    Personal

Effect: You gain a Psionic Focus for a number of turns equal to your Wisdom modifier. While you retain this focus, you gain one of the following benefits:
o    + 5 bonus to one of your trained skills
o    + 2 bonus to saving throws
o    + 1 square to all movement
o    Regeneration equal to your Wisdom modifier

You must expend your Psionic Focus as an additional cost in order to gain one of the following benefits, which you may use at anytime as a free action:
Augment 1: You gain resistance to all damage equal to your 3 + Constitution modifier.
Augment 1: You may shift a number of squares equal to your 3 + Charisma modifier.
Augment 2: You may spend a healing surge and end any ongoing effects and one condition.

Special: You may use this ability a number of times per encounter equal to ½ your Wisdom modifier to a minimum of one.

Volatile Mind: Each Wilder utilizes their inborn gift differently in order to survive in the world allowing them to add additional effects to their attacks, which provide both offensive and defensive bonuses. Choose either Psychic Feedback or Psychic Barrier as your latent gift.

Psychic Feedback: You gain the Psychic Feedback class feature, which acts like an at-will power.
Psychic Feedback: At-will *Psionic, Psychic, Invigorating   Wilder Feature
Free Action (Special) Special

Trigger: You hit with an attack during your turn
Target: One creature hit by your attack
   Level 11: One or two creatures hit by your attack
   Level 21: Each enemy hit by your attack

Effect: The target takes damage equal to your 2 + Constitution modifier.

Special: You can use this power only once per round. Temporary hit points gained from this power stack. The range of this power is the same as the range of the triggering power.

Psychic Barrier: You gain the Psychic Barrier class feature, which acts like an at-will power.
Psychic Barrier: At-will *Psionic, Psychic   Wilder Feature
Free Action (Special) Special

Trigger: You hit with an attack during your turn
Target: One creature hit by your attack
   Level 11: One or two creatures hit by your attack
   Level 21: Each enemy hit by your attack

Effect: The target takes damage equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier and the target of the triggering attack is dazed until the end of your next turn. You gain a +1 bonus to AC and Reflex against the target of your Psychic Barrier class feature until the end of your next turn.
   The damage increases by 2 at 11th level and by an additional 2 at 21st level. Increase the bonus to AC and Reflex to +2 at 11th level and to +3 at 21st level.

Special: You can use this power only once per round. The range of this power is the same as the triggering power.
#3
OskarOisinson
Apr 08, 2010 20:58:21
Points of Concern

Armor Prof.: I'm wondering if this is too much to give him hide or perhaps even leather. I purposefully left out a class feature that increased base AC like the Monk and Barbarian has. Likewise, I have no 'ability swap' for AC defense like the sorcerer. The Wilder's Volatile Mind class feature is meant to shore up some of this by providing either temporary hit points or conditional AC bonuses but I'm not sure if this will be unbalancing if they have Hide armour. I chose to include Hide tentatively because like I said there is no feature and the class itself does not key off of Intelligence or Dexterity at all.

EDIT: On second thought, I was looking at the defense bonus provided by Hide and now I wonder if it might be too little without an additional feature. The reason I'm hesitant about another feature is because I feel like that would give the class too many but that might just be in my head.

Surges per Day: I decided to make the class's hit points on the same order as the avenger. The defendery build (Con based) is going to be focused on close blasts, but even the Controllery build (Cha-based) will only be a medium range combatant (utilizing bursts). This relative close range necessitates I feel boosted hit points, especially in light of the relatively weak AC I mention above. I didn't want to give this build as much HP as the Barbarian but due to it's heavy reliance on Healing Surges, I thought it would be appropriate to give the base number of surges as 8 + Con modifier though I might be willing to reduce it to 7 + Con mod if a sound rationale can be found.

Wild Surge: This is one of the things I'm most concerned about balancing, I think having to expend healing surges with the potential for basically being rendered incapacitated for at least one round is a reasonable penalty for using this power and since the additional damage keys off your level, I don't think it will be overwhelming in the advantage it brings, though it will certainly be useful in a pinch.

EDIT: On second thought, I'm wondering if this will be underpowered at lower levels and would invite anyone's thoughts on how to boost its power at low levels while preventing too much boost at the top end. I don't want to do the typical, "Your attack does +1d6 damage. +2d6 at 11th, +3d6 at 21st" That mechanic seems rather trite to me now and really doesn't fit the flavor of what Wild Surge used to be. I thought about making the extra damage 1/2 level + Wisdom modifier psychic but at thirtieth level, that means you'd be doing about 70+ damage with a +8 modifier each encounter. I'd really like to keep it an encounter ability but I'm not sure if that'd be balanced considering it will be targeting areas and not just single targets.... It also occurred to me that I might be better off writing this up as a power rather than as it is. Thoughts? BTW I based this ability loosely off of the barbarian Rage Strike. I feel like it should be slightly more powerful because it has a higher associated cost though, and that was kind of the point in the first place.

Wild Talent:I wanted to make this to essentially be a psionic version of Channel divinity, with racial feats (instead of divine), which present different augment options. I was envisioning it as a way to resurrect the 'Naturally Psionic' and "Psi-Like" abilities of the XPH by allowing PC's to multiclass into Wilder, gain a slightly altered form of this feature and then gain racial augments for it. Beyond that, I wanted something for the actual class that acted in a more or less similar way to the Psion's/Wizard's 'cantrips' but with somewhat more flexibility to reflect the Wilder's more mercurial nature. Moreover, I wanted something approximating the Psionic Focus of 3.x, which you could gain by taking an action to concentrate and then expend for various effects keyed off feats (e.g. Psionic Shot). I feel like this fits well flavor-wise because the Wilder needs more or a focus than other psionic classes to keep it from over-exerting itself.

Volatile Mind: Though these two powers are admittedly slightly more powerful than those given to the monk (which they are based off of) I don't think they are game breaking for subtle reasons. The AC/Reflex bonuses and the temporary hit points are addressed above as a way to shore up defense since the Wilder is lacking those and is intended to be a close to mid-range combatant, the increased damage and dazed effect on the Psychic Barrier are there to balance it with the fact that a Con-based Wilder will have access to powerful Wild Surges more often, while the Cha-based Wilder would other-wise get a bit shafted in that respect.

Over-all I think this could be a very playable class. More than that though, I hope it will be a very flavorful class that is constantly tempting the player to push themselves (via Wild Surge/Surging Euphoria/Augmenting Psionic Focus) while providing very real consequences for not maintaining control of their impulses. Moreover, I like the idea of a Striker that gains his extra damage primarily by managing his personal reserves rather than by using hunter's quarry or warlock's curse things that sort of 'mark' a target. It seems to fit better with not just the Wilder but with 4e psionics overall. I know it's not perfect but I hope you guys like it, let me know if I can tweak anything to make it better! Thanks!

#4
rampant
Apr 09, 2010 1:59:37 I guess I don't understand why you need a wilder class. I was under the impression that much like the swordmage is the 4e incarnation of the duskblade, the ardent was the descendant of the Wilder.
#5
Crimson_Concerto
Apr 09, 2010 3:23:23
I was under the impression that much like the swordmage is the 4e incarnation of the duskblade, the ardent was the descendant of the Wilder.

I keep seeing this claim, but I can't of it as anything other than totally ridiculous. The Ardent does not cover the concept of the Wilder to a satisfactory level for various reasons, not the least of which being that it's a Melee Weapon class instead of the much more desireable Ranged Implement class. It's party role is also a concern, and so is the fact that it almost totally concentrates on telepathy instead of also being open to telekinesis and so on.
#6
ekio
Apr 09, 2010 7:07:13 The ardent being a wilder makes no sense.

To save you the trouble of making a Wilder class, explore what you can already do with the current set of classes. Seriously, renaming a class is better than 8+ months of work. I'd go with a hybrid wild sorcerer and telekinetic psion. I don't know sorcerers though, so I couldn't tell you if they synergize well or not.
#7
OskarOisinson
Apr 09, 2010 12:28:24 I have been looking at the ardent and, while it has certain superficial similarities to the old skool Wilder in terms of names (Ardent Surge) and some flavor, that's about where the similarities end to me. The Wilder of 3.x was more of an egoistic psionic class flavor-wise. It was a loner with more in common mechanically with the battlemind and psion of 4e than the ardent who is more about controlling their emotions than giving into them. I was hoping for this 4e Wilder to be kind of like the dark-side Ardent, someone who, instead of controlling their gift to aid others, often as not ended up giving into their base instincts. Think of Tetsuo from Akira, to my mind, the perfect model for a Wilder.

Ekio, I appreciate the input but as I said, I was going to use parts of this class to tie over into other aspects of a 4e XPH. I'm thinking high synergy between this class and the Dromite/Maenad races I have in mind (since in 3.x that was their favored class) as well as a whole feat tree based off of the Psionic Focus feature. Moreover, I've already gone through the work of putting together what I have and I don't really want to just scrap it for a hybrid option. It's true the sorcerer was the 3.x equivalent of the Wilder but since this is 4e, I'd rather have a mechanically differentiated model that backs up my particular vision. I'm also skeptical of the synergy between psions and sorcerers. As far as the concern of 8 months work being put in... I don't think that will be the case. Balancing this class will probably be the hardest thing but shouldn't take more than a couple of weeks as powers can be drawn from other reference materials along with paragon paths. Beyond that, I find making races much easier than making classes and feats kind of come naturally after you've established the classes/races.

Really, I'd just prefer help in balancing the above mechanics, cuz once that's done, it's more or less a walk in the park.
Thanks!
#8
Eisenritter
Apr 09, 2010 15:25:11 Erm... more to the point? The wilder and thri-kreen will be in Dark Sun. Can't you wait, oh, four months, instead of breaking your brain on a class? ^_^;;
#9
OskarOisinson
Apr 09, 2010 15:52:50 I know Thri-Kreen will be in that, haven't heard about any plans for the Wilder though... I don't know. I get the sense that you guys think I'm 'labouring' on this, this is just a fun diversion for me sometimes late at night in the interest of expanding player options for those who wish to utilize them. I mean, that's pretty much the definition of what Homebrewing is, diversity for its own sake. I was hoping to get this stuff to a playable state by the summer and then possibly use it in a summer campaign or even submit it to WOTC. I like trying to come up with balanced homebrew stuff because game design has become a minor hobby of mine and I want to improve my sensibilities in that regard. Also, I'm really afraid they might completely nerf the Thri-Kreen, which was far and away my favorite race from 3.x and I want to have an alternative in case they eff it up as they IMHO have done with one or two other races/classes.
#10
Eisenritter
Apr 10, 2010 0:18:43 The kreen are fine, judging from what we've been shown (quad-wielding, however, will -not- be available from 1st level, which is a good thing), and the "official" Wilder seems to be an option to take on top of any psionic character.

By the way, your Psionic Focus is a bit OP (and worded oddly), and Psionic Augmentation is a class feature if you have power points. Unless I've missed something....
#11
OskarOisinson
Apr 10, 2010 15:31:02 Hmmm.... yea the Thri-Kreen build I made was quad-wielding but it didn't provide any additional attacks and passive bonuses cancelled one another out. You could take feats to make it more quad-wieldy but essentially, at first level you got quick draw for a free and you could hold a shield and a two handed weapon at the same time.... those were like the primary abilities for the class though, I built it along the guideline provided in one of the sticky threads in the homebrew section, which says you should have two major abilities, two minor, and a racial power so Multi-Limbed was one major and Darkvision/move 7 was the other. I've been working more on the Wilder and decided to take out the Psionic Focus and make it a separate feat and include Psionic Augmentation instead. I think I managed to answer a few of my own questions actually for the class but I did the same thing as I'm doing with Wilder with the Artificer before it came out and I actually ended up liking my conception more. It wasn't more powerful, it just used different mechanics that I felt were a bit more flavourful because afterall, what's DnD without flavour?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 OskarOisinson Apr 08, 2010 20:00:06	Hey so I was thinking of trying my hand at drafting a version of the XPH and it's supplement from 3.x for 4e. Toward that end, I've been working on a rather extensive Thri-Kreen write-up, which I will post once I've finished the Gythka and Chatchka based paragon paths I'm working on and I've also done a rough draft of the Wilder class. In the future I intend to do write-ups for Dromites, Maenads, Xephs, and perhaps Muls as well (just cause they seem fairly straight forward). I feel pretty confident about the Thri-Kreen having based much of it on pre-existing materials, for now though, I'd like to see people's thoughts on this outline of the Wilder before I move forward on writing up powers. I feel it's fairly balanced but I did write this all up in one day. It has what I'm hoping are some interesting and flavorful mechanics, which bring back the feel of the old Wilder while using healing surges and power points to limit abuse. Anyway, please give me some feedback and let me know what you think.
#2 OskarOisinson Apr 08, 2010 20:00:23	Wilder Class Traits: Role: Striker. You channel raw psionic energy to destroy your enemies. You lean toward either defender or controller as a secondary role. Power Source: Psionic. You have the inborn gift of psionic power. You unleash it by channeling your raw emotions and vitality. Key Abilities: Wisdom, Constitution, Charisma Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Simple Ranged Implements: Orbs, Staffs Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will Hit Points at 1st Level: 14 + Constitution score Hit Points per Level Gained: 6 Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier Trained Skills: Choose four skills from the list below: Arcana, Bluff, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering, Endurance, Heal, Intimidate, Insight, Perception Class Features: Wild Surge, Psychic Enervation, Surging Euphoria, Wild Talent, Volatile Mind Wild Surge: Once per encounter you may expend healing surges to boost your offensive power in the following way. You may spend 1 to 3 surges to gain a +1 to 3 bonus on your next attack. Additionally, for each surge you spend, that attack does extra psychic damage equal to ½ your level to all creatures in the attack’s affected area. Psychic Enervation: After you use your Wild Surge class feature, you must make a saving throw to avoid becoming enervated. If you spent 1 surge, you make a saving throw. If you fail, you are dazed until the end of your next turn and suffer a -1 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws until the end of your next turn. If you spent 2 surges, you make a saving throw with a -5 penalty. If you fail, you are stunned until the end of your next turn and suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws for 2 rounds after that. If you spent three surges, you make a saving throw with a -10 penalty. If you fail, you are stunned until the end of your next turn, fall prone, and suffer a -3 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws for 3 rounds after that. There is no way to avoid these conditions and penalties apart from succeeding on the initial saving throw. Surging Euphoria: If you succeed on your saving throw to avoid becoming enervated you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws for a number of rounds equal to the number of surges you spent on your wild surge. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level. Wild Talent: You gain the Psionic Focus class feature which acts like an augmentable at-will power. You also gain 1 power point that may only be used in conjunction with the Psionic Focus class feature. *Psionic Focus:* At-will Psionic Wilder Feature Standard Action (Special) Personal Effect:* You gain a Psionic Focus for a number of turns equal to your Wisdom modifier. While you retain this focus, you gain one of the following benefits: o + 5 bonus to one of your trained skills o + 2 bonus to saving throws o + 1 square to all movement o Regeneration equal to your Wisdom modifier You must expend your Psionic Focus as an additional cost in order to gain one of the following benefits, which you may use at anytime as a free action: Augment 1: You gain resistance to all damage equal to your 3 + Constitution modifier. Augment 1: You may shift a number of squares equal to your 3 + Charisma modifier. Augment 2: You may spend a healing surge and end any ongoing effects and one condition. Special: You may use this ability a number of times per encounter equal to ½ your Wisdom modifier to a minimum of one. Volatile Mind: Each Wilder utilizes their inborn gift differently in order to survive in the world allowing them to add additional effects to their attacks, which provide both offensive and defensive bonuses. Choose either Psychic Feedback or Psychic Barrier as your latent gift. Psychic Feedback: You gain the Psychic Feedback class feature, which acts like an at-will power. *Psychic Feedback:* At-will Psionic, Psychic, Invigorating Wilder Feature Free Action (Special) Special Trigger:* You hit with an attack during your turn Target: One creature hit by your attack Level 11: One or two creatures hit by your attack Level 21: Each enemy hit by your attack Effect: The target takes damage equal to your 2 + Constitution modifier. Special: You can use this power only once per round. Temporary hit points gained from this power stack. The range of this power is the same as the range of the triggering power. Psychic Barrier: You gain the Psychic Barrier class feature, which acts like an at-will power. *Psychic Barrier:* At-will Psionic, Psychic Wilder Feature Free Action (Special) Special Trigger:* You hit with an attack during your turn Target: One creature hit by your attack Level 11: One or two creatures hit by your attack Level 21: Each enemy hit by your attack Effect: The target takes damage equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier and the target of the triggering attack is dazed until the end of your next turn. You gain a +1 bonus to AC and Reflex against the target of your Psychic Barrier class feature until the end of your next turn. The damage increases by 2 at 11th level and by an additional 2 at 21st level. Increase the bonus to AC and Reflex to +2 at 11th level and to +3 at 21st level. Special: You can use this power only once per round. The range of this power is the same as the triggering power.
#3 OskarOisinson Apr 08, 2010 20:58:21	Points of Concern Armor Prof.: I'm wondering if this is too much to give him hide or perhaps even leather. I purposefully left out a class feature that increased base AC like the Monk and Barbarian has. Likewise, I have no 'ability swap' for AC defense like the sorcerer. The Wilder's Volatile Mind class feature is meant to shore up some of this by providing either temporary hit points or conditional AC bonuses but I'm not sure if this will be unbalancing if they have Hide armour. I chose to include Hide tentatively because like I said there is no feature and the class itself does not key off of Intelligence or Dexterity at all. EDIT: On second thought, I was looking at the defense bonus provided by Hide and now I wonder if it might be too little without an additional feature. The reason I'm hesitant about another feature is because I feel like that would give the class too many but that might just be in my head. Surges per Day: I decided to make the class's hit points on the same order as the avenger. The defendery build (Con based) is going to be focused on close blasts, but even the Controllery build (Cha-based) will only be a medium range combatant (utilizing bursts). This relative close range necessitates I feel boosted hit points, especially in light of the relatively weak AC I mention above. I didn't want to give this build as much HP as the Barbarian but due to it's heavy reliance on Healing Surges, I thought it would be appropriate to give the base number of surges as 8 + Con modifier though I might be willing to reduce it to 7 + Con mod if a sound rationale can be found. Wild Surge: This is one of the things I'm most concerned about balancing, I think having to expend healing surges with the potential for basically being rendered incapacitated for at least one round is a reasonable penalty for using this power and since the additional damage keys off your level, I don't think it will be overwhelming in the advantage it brings, though it will certainly be useful in a pinch. EDIT: On second thought, I'm wondering if this will be underpowered at lower levels and would invite anyone's thoughts on how to boost its power at low levels while preventing too much boost at the top end. I don't want to do the typical, "Your attack does +1d6 damage. +2d6 at 11th, +3d6 at 21st" That mechanic seems rather trite to me now and really doesn't fit the flavor of what Wild Surge used to be. I thought about making the extra damage 1/2 level + Wisdom modifier psychic but at thirtieth level, that means you'd be doing about 70+ damage with a +8 modifier each encounter. I'd really like to keep it an encounter ability but I'm not sure if that'd be balanced considering it will be targeting areas and not just single targets.... It also occurred to me that I might be better off writing this up as a power rather than as it is. Thoughts? BTW I based this ability loosely off of the barbarian Rage Strike. I feel like it should be slightly more powerful because it has a higher associated cost though, and that was kind of the point in the first place. Wild Talent:I wanted to make this to essentially be a psionic version of Channel divinity, with racial feats (instead of divine), which present different augment options. I was envisioning it as a way to resurrect the 'Naturally Psionic' and "Psi-Like" abilities of the XPH by allowing PC's to multiclass into Wilder, gain a slightly altered form of this feature and then gain racial augments for it. Beyond that, I wanted something for the actual class that acted in a more or less similar way to the Psion's/Wizard's 'cantrips' but with somewhat more flexibility to reflect the Wilder's more mercurial nature. Moreover, I wanted something approximating the Psionic Focus of 3.x, which you could gain by taking an action to concentrate and then expend for various effects keyed off feats (e.g. Psionic Shot). I feel like this fits well flavor-wise because the Wilder needs more or a focus than other psionic classes to keep it from over-exerting itself. Volatile Mind: Though these two powers are admittedly slightly more powerful than those given to the monk (which they are based off of) I don't think they are game breaking for subtle reasons. The AC/Reflex bonuses and the temporary hit points are addressed above as a way to shore up defense since the Wilder is lacking those and is intended to be a close to mid-range combatant, the increased damage and dazed effect on the Psychic Barrier are there to balance it with the fact that a Con-based Wilder will have access to powerful Wild Surges more often, while the Cha-based Wilder would other-wise get a bit shafted in that respect. Over-all I think this could be a very playable class. More than that though, I hope it will be a very flavorful class that is constantly tempting the player to push themselves (via Wild Surge/Surging Euphoria/Augmenting Psionic Focus) while providing very real consequences for not maintaining control of their impulses. Moreover, I like the idea of a Striker that gains his extra damage primarily by managing his personal reserves rather than by using hunter's quarry or warlock's curse things that sort of 'mark' a target. It seems to fit better with not just the Wilder but with 4e psionics overall. I know it's not perfect but I hope you guys like it, let me know if I can tweak anything to make it better! Thanks!
#4 rampant Apr 09, 2010 1:59:37	I guess I don't understand why you need a wilder class. I was under the impression that much like the swordmage is the 4e incarnation of the duskblade, the ardent was the descendant of the Wilder.
#5 Crimson_Concerto Apr 09, 2010 3:23:23	I was under the impression that much like the swordmage is the 4e incarnation of the duskblade, the ardent was the descendant of the Wilder. I keep seeing this claim, but I can't of it as anything other than totally ridiculous. The Ardent does not cover the concept of the Wilder to a satisfactory level for various reasons, not the least of which being that it's a Melee Weapon class instead of the much more desireable Ranged Implement class. It's party role is also a concern, and so is the fact that it almost totally concentrates on telepathy instead of also being open to telekinesis and so on.
#6 ekio Apr 09, 2010 7:07:13	The ardent being a wilder makes no sense. To save you the trouble of making a Wilder class, explore what you can already do with the current set of classes. Seriously, renaming a class is better than 8+ months of work. I'd go with a hybrid wild sorcerer and telekinetic psion. I don't know sorcerers though, so I couldn't tell you if they synergize well or not.
#7 OskarOisinson Apr 09, 2010 12:28:24	I have been looking at the ardent and, while it has certain superficial similarities to the old skool Wilder in terms of names (Ardent Surge) and some flavor, that's about where the similarities end to me. The Wilder of 3.x was more of an egoistic psionic class flavor-wise. It was a loner with more in common mechanically with the battlemind and psion of 4e than the ardent who is more about controlling their emotions than giving into them. I was hoping for this 4e Wilder to be kind of like the dark-side Ardent, someone who, instead of controlling their gift to aid others, often as not ended up giving into their base instincts. Think of Tetsuo from Akira, to my mind, the perfect model for a Wilder. Ekio, I appreciate the input but as I said, I was going to use parts of this class to tie over into other aspects of a 4e XPH. I'm thinking high synergy between this class and the Dromite/Maenad races I have in mind (since in 3.x that was their favored class) as well as a whole feat tree based off of the Psionic Focus feature. Moreover, I've already gone through the work of putting together what I have and I don't really want to just scrap it for a hybrid option. It's true the sorcerer was the 3.x equivalent of the Wilder but since this is 4e, I'd rather have a mechanically differentiated model that backs up my particular vision. I'm also skeptical of the synergy between psions and sorcerers. As far as the concern of 8 months work being put in... I don't think that will be the case. Balancing this class will probably be the hardest thing but shouldn't take more than a couple of weeks as powers can be drawn from other reference materials along with paragon paths. Beyond that, I find making races much easier than making classes and feats kind of come naturally after you've established the classes/races. Really, I'd just prefer help in balancing the above mechanics, cuz once that's done, it's more or less a walk in the park. Thanks!
#8 Eisenritter Apr 09, 2010 15:25:11	Erm... more to the point? The wilder and thri-kreen will be in Dark Sun. Can't you wait, oh, four months, instead of breaking your brain on a class? ^_^;;
#9 OskarOisinson Apr 09, 2010 15:52:50	I know Thri-Kreen will be in that, haven't heard about any plans for the Wilder though... I don't know. I get the sense that you guys think I'm 'labouring' on this, this is just a fun diversion for me sometimes late at night in the interest of expanding player options for those who wish to utilize them. I mean, that's pretty much the definition of what Homebrewing is, diversity for its own sake. I was hoping to get this stuff to a playable state by the summer and then possibly use it in a summer campaign or even submit it to WOTC. I like trying to come up with balanced homebrew stuff because game design has become a minor hobby of mine and I want to improve my sensibilities in that regard. Also, I'm really afraid they might completely nerf the Thri-Kreen, which was far and away my favorite race from 3.x and I want to have an alternative in case they eff it up as they IMHO have done with one or two other races/classes.
#10 Eisenritter Apr 10, 2010 0:18:43	The kreen are fine, judging from what we've been shown (quad-wielding, however, will -not- be available from 1st level, which is a good thing), and the "official" Wilder seems to be an option to take on top of any psionic character. By the way, your Psionic Focus is a bit OP (and worded oddly), and Psionic Augmentation is a class feature if you have power points. Unless I've missed something....
#11 OskarOisinson Apr 10, 2010 15:31:02	Hmmm.... yea the Thri-Kreen build I made was quad-wielding but it didn't provide any additional attacks and passive bonuses cancelled one another out. You could take feats to make it more quad-wieldy but essentially, at first level you got quick draw for a free and you could hold a shield and a two handed weapon at the same time.... those were like the primary abilities for the class though, I built it along the guideline provided in one of the sticky threads in the homebrew section, which says you should have two major abilities, two minor, and a racial power so Multi-Limbed was one major and Darkvision/move 7 was the other. I've been working more on the Wilder and decided to take out the Psionic Focus and make it a separate feat and include Psionic Augmentation instead. I think I managed to answer a few of my own questions actually for the class but I did the same thing as I'm doing with Wilder with the Artificer before it came out and I actually ended up liking my conception more. It wasn't more powerful, it just used different mechanics that I felt were a bit more flavourful because afterall, what's DnD without flavour?