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House Rule

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
joela
Feb 03, 2009 1:33:27 Hi, y'all,

I'm about to restart a campaign as DM and I'm thinking of implementing the following houserule:

Multiple Second Wind: You may use SW as many times as you want in an encounter. However, it costs two healing surges after using your PC uses his/her initial one.

Multiple Encounter/Daily Power: By sacrificing healing surges, you may use encounter and daily powers after they've been spent. To use an encounter power again costs one healing surge while a daily power costs two to use again that day.

Opinions?
#2
halsfield
Feb 03, 2009 1:40:16 the first houserule isnt too bad, although it makes clerics rather unhappy i bet. you can also get more healing surges through a variety of ways like items so that may skew this towards unbalanced even more. i dont know if you know , but they have healing potions that effectively do the same thing. you may just have them buy some of those instead.

the second one is completely unbalancing. dailies are so strong and are not supposed to be used that often. if my ranger could do this i could jaws of the wolf about 5x in a fight [(4x 1d10) +(10)](effectively, its two attacks) at level 3, i could wipe out most monsters in one hit and multiply that by 5 and most encounters would be a joke and bosses would be as well.
#3
archangel_james
Feb 03, 2009 1:59:28 I see what you're trying to do, but I think the end result will be a) easy encounters and b) fewer encounters before the PCs call it a night. You're welcome to try it out, but I don't think it will bare the kind of results you're shooting for.
#4
turkish_van_cat
Feb 03, 2009 2:11:56 The first one sounds like it could be pretty useful but not unbalancing. I agree that your second rule is unbalanced though. One house rule my DM uses for healing surges is the "Adrenaline Surge." Once per encounter, you may burn a healing surge to gain +1d6 to an attack roll, damage roll, skill check, etc. (declared before the roll, of course), or to add 1d4 to your movement for a round. I think it's a lot of fun and it makes for some epic turns where you burn both adrenaline for damage on, say, an area attack, and then AP.
#5
nom
Feb 03, 2009 3:35:29 My concern with the 2-1 rule is that you'll encourage nova-ing, where parties bite off more than they should chew and then burn through daily resources to cope. The second rule will create nova problems.
#6
Xeviat-DM
Feb 03, 2009 4:36:20 I second Nom's point. Unless you want to only run one encounter a day and make it 5 encounter levels above the PCs, you probably shouldn't do this. Interestingly, this was what I had to do in 3E to make my fights interesting: I only used monsters of a CR at the party's level, but I used 4 or 6 so the fight would be 4 to 5 encounter level's higher than the party level (this let them nova and have fun, and it let me run bigger more exciting fights).

It's fun that 4E uses 5 monsters as the baseline now.
#7
Seeker95
Feb 03, 2009 6:59:16 Thirding Nom and Xeviat. This will make encounters too easy if they are level appropriate, and will make players choose to avoid sustained play if encounter strength is increased to be a challenge.
#8
onceuponatime
Feb 03, 2009 9:21:31
The first one sounds like it could be pretty useful but not unbalancing. I agree that your second rule is unbalanced though. One house rule my DM uses for healing surges is the "Adrenaline Surge." Once per encounter, you may burn a healing surge to gain +1d6 to an attack roll, damage roll, skill check, etc. (declared before the roll, of course), or to add 1d4 to your movement for a round. I think it's a lot of fun and it makes for some epic turns where you burn both adrenaline for damage on, say, an area attack, and then AP.

I like the sounds of this..I may try it out...
#9
Maxperson
Feb 03, 2009 13:18:11
My concern with the 2-1 rule is that you'll encourage nova-ing, where parties bite off more than they should chew and then burn through daily resources to cope. The second rule will create nova problems.

If they nova and blow through the first encounter, though, they'll be VERY short on surges for any further encounters, which could very well destroy the party. I think once bitten in this way, the group will save their surges, only using the extras in an emergency situation.
#10
manion
Feb 03, 2009 14:09:44 It kills a teamwork dynamic and encourages the 5 minute day. On those two notes, I don't like it.
#11
fugitive_unknown
Feb 03, 2009 14:27:20 A) Could make leaders a little bit redundant, but if you don't have any in your party that won't be an issue. Makes con and defenders a heck of a lot better, since they have a plethora of healing surges to work with and their blooded values are higher.

It's REALLY good for dwarves - particularly dwarven fighters - they don't have anything to do with their minor anyway, and in paragon you know their going to take dwarven durability.

B) Really pushes it. A high con defender can start iwth 10 surges - being able to throw out 5 villians menaces at level 1 would be.. uh.. rather ridiuclous.

If you absolutely insist upon doing something like this, the adreanaline surge offered earlier might be better. Or you could let people encounter AP / Daily Powers between encounters if you were so inclined.
#12
Seeker95
Feb 03, 2009 14:34:43
If they nova and blow through the first encounter, though, they'll be VERY short on surges for any further encounters

The point of going nova is to make the 5-minute workday. The DM can fight against this a little, but if it becomes a DM-fiat "I'm going to never let you have a one-encounter-day" then what's the point of providing a house rule mechanic that incentivizes going nova in the first place?
#13
Maxperson
Feb 03, 2009 15:04:57
The point of going nova is to make the 5-minute workday.

There is no 5 minute work day, really. The players don't have holes in the sky to rest in or quick, easy teleports to pop back to town with anymore. If they want to risk their lives and the campaign every time they hit an encounter, they will eventually perish.

The DM can fight against this a little, but if it becomes a DM-fiat "I'm going to never let you have a one-encounter-day" then what's the point of providing a house rule mechanic that incentivizes going nova in the first place?

The DM doesn't have to. All he has to do is plan things out normally. There will be enough multi-encounter days to wipe the stupid nova party out of existence with, without having to fiat anything at all.
#14
Arbitrary_Aardvark
Feb 03, 2009 16:00:37
Hi, y'all,

I'm about to restart a campaign as DM and I'm thinking of implementing the following houserule:

Multiple Second Wind: You may use SW as many times as you want in an encounter. However, it costs two healing surges after using your PC uses his/her initial one.

Multiple Encounter/Daily Power: By sacrificing healing surges, you may use encounter and daily powers after they've been spent. To use an encounter power again costs one healing surge while a daily power costs two to use again that day.

Opinions?

Try running with the RAW for a level first.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 joela Feb 03, 2009 1:33:27	Hi, y'all, I'm about to restart a campaign as DM and I'm thinking of implementing the following houserule: Multiple Second Wind: You may use SW as many times as you want in an encounter. However, it costs two healing surges after using your PC uses his/her initial one. Multiple Encounter/Daily Power: By sacrificing healing surges, you may use encounter and daily powers after they've been spent. To use an encounter power again costs one healing surge while a daily power costs two to use again that day. Opinions?
#2 halsfield Feb 03, 2009 1:40:16	the first houserule isnt too bad, although it makes clerics rather unhappy i bet. you can also get more healing surges through a variety of ways like items so that may skew this towards unbalanced even more. i dont know if you know , but they have healing potions that effectively do the same thing. you may just have them buy some of those instead. the second one is completely unbalancing. dailies are so strong and are not supposed to be used that often. if my ranger could do this i could jaws of the wolf about 5x in a fight [(4x 1d10) +(10)](effectively, its two attacks) at level 3, i could wipe out most monsters in one hit and multiply that by 5 and most encounters would be a joke and bosses would be as well.
#3 archangel_james Feb 03, 2009 1:59:28	I see what you're trying to do, but I think the end result will be a) easy encounters and b) fewer encounters before the PCs call it a night. You're welcome to try it out, but I don't think it will bare the kind of results you're shooting for.
#4 turkish_van_cat Feb 03, 2009 2:11:56	The first one sounds like it could be pretty useful but not unbalancing. I agree that your second rule is unbalanced though. One house rule my DM uses for healing surges is the "Adrenaline Surge." Once per encounter, you may burn a healing surge to gain +1d6 to an attack roll, damage roll, skill check, etc. (declared before the roll, of course), or to add 1d4 to your movement for a round. I think it's a lot of fun and it makes for some epic turns where you burn both adrenaline for damage on, say, an area attack, and then AP.
#5 nom Feb 03, 2009 3:35:29	My concern with the 2-1 rule is that you'll encourage nova-ing, where parties bite off more than they should chew and then burn through daily resources to cope. The second rule will create nova problems.
#6 Xeviat-DM Feb 03, 2009 4:36:20	I second Nom's point. Unless you want to only run one encounter a day and make it 5 encounter levels above the PCs, you probably shouldn't do this. Interestingly, this was what I had to do in 3E to make my fights interesting: I only used monsters of a CR at the party's level, but I used 4 or 6 so the fight would be 4 to 5 encounter level's higher than the party level (this let them nova and have fun, and it let me run bigger more exciting fights). It's fun that 4E uses 5 monsters as the baseline now.
#7 Seeker95 Feb 03, 2009 6:59:16	Thirding Nom and Xeviat. This will make encounters too easy if they are level appropriate, and will make players choose to avoid sustained play if encounter strength is increased to be a challenge.
#8 onceuponatime Feb 03, 2009 9:21:31	The first one sounds like it could be pretty useful but not unbalancing. I agree that your second rule is unbalanced though. One house rule my DM uses for healing surges is the "Adrenaline Surge." Once per encounter, you may burn a healing surge to gain +1d6 to an attack roll, damage roll, skill check, etc. (declared before the roll, of course), or to add 1d4 to your movement for a round. I think it's a lot of fun and it makes for some epic turns where you burn both adrenaline for damage on, say, an area attack, and then AP. I like the sounds of this..I may try it out...
#9 Maxperson Feb 03, 2009 13:18:11	My concern with the 2-1 rule is that you'll encourage nova-ing, where parties bite off more than they should chew and then burn through daily resources to cope. The second rule will create nova problems. If they nova and blow through the first encounter, though, they'll be VERY short on surges for any further encounters, which could very well destroy the party. I think once bitten in this way, the group will save their surges, only using the extras in an emergency situation.
#10 manion Feb 03, 2009 14:09:44	It kills a teamwork dynamic and encourages the 5 minute day. On those two notes, I don't like it.
#11 fugitive_unknown Feb 03, 2009 14:27:20	A) Could make leaders a little bit redundant, but if you don't have any in your party that won't be an issue. Makes con and defenders a heck of a lot better, since they have a plethora of healing surges to work with and their blooded values are higher. It's REALLY good for dwarves - particularly dwarven fighters - they don't have anything to do with their minor anyway, and in paragon you know their going to take dwarven durability. B) Really pushes it. A high con defender can start iwth 10 surges - being able to throw out 5 villians menaces at level 1 would be.. uh.. rather ridiuclous. If you absolutely insist upon doing something like this, the adreanaline surge offered earlier might be better. Or you could let people encounter AP / Daily Powers between encounters if you were so inclined.
#12 Seeker95 Feb 03, 2009 14:34:43	If they nova and blow through the first encounter, though, they'll be VERY short on surges for any further encounters The point of going nova is to make the 5-minute workday. The DM can fight against this a little, but if it becomes a DM-fiat "I'm going to never let you have a one-encounter-day" then what's the point of providing a house rule mechanic that incentivizes going nova in the first place?
#13 Maxperson Feb 03, 2009 15:04:57	The point of going nova is to make the 5-minute workday. There is no 5 minute work day, really. The players don't have holes in the sky to rest in or quick, easy teleports to pop back to town with anymore. If they want to risk their lives and the campaign every time they hit an encounter, they will eventually perish. The DM can fight against this a little, but if it becomes a DM-fiat "I'm going to never let you have a one-encounter-day" then what's the point of providing a house rule mechanic that incentivizes going nova in the first place? The DM doesn't have to. All he has to do is plan things out normally. There will be enough multi-encounter days to wipe the stupid nova party out of existence with, without having to fiat anything at all.
#14 Arbitrary_Aardvark Feb 03, 2009 16:00:37	Hi, y'all, I'm about to restart a campaign as DM and I'm thinking of implementing the following houserule: Multiple Second Wind: You may use SW as many times as you want in an encounter. However, it costs two healing surges after using your PC uses his/her initial one. Multiple Encounter/Daily Power: By sacrificing healing surges, you may use encounter and daily powers after they've been spent. To use an encounter power again costs one healing surge while a daily power costs two to use again that day. Opinions? Try running with the RAW for a level first.