Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 blinks Nov 23, 2008 18:12:30	I'm a big fan of 4e. The game moves faster, is easier to teach to new players, and provides enough choices that I seldom see cloned characters. That said, I like building characters with crafting skills, but I don't see why (in-game) these skills would be useful: they don't save you any money, you can't make any cash with them, and if you have a store around, they're totally redundant. (Brew potion? But I can buy one for the same price!) Balance is always an issue, but we can handle that with modified treasure distribution, perhaps providing more material components or residuum as treasure. Anyway, here's how I'm going to do it in my game (been thinking about this for a few months): When selling an item to a reseller, roll two Diplomacy checks and add the results. This is the percentage of the total item cost that you receive from the sale. Example: when you sell your Dwarven Plate +1 (520gp), you roll two Diplomacy checks and get 8 and 16. This means you can get 24% of 520gp, or 124gp and 8sp. (An epic character, tweaked out for Diplomacy, could get his checks high enough to convince the shopkeeper -- in a literally epic sales pitch -- to buy his gear for no margin.) When crafting a magical item (with Brew Potion, for example), roll two Arcana checks and add the results. This is the percentage of the total item cost that you get discounted (maximum 99%). Example: when you craft a Potion of Healing (50gp), you roll two Arcana checks and get an 18 and a 26. This means you only need to use 28gp of material components. Note that rituals like Brew Potion require the created potion to be your level or lower, and even 75% off of a Potion of Life (125K gp) is still 31K gp. (Raise Dead costs 500gp for Heroic, 5000gp for Paragon, and 50000gp for Epic, but works for 30 days after death.) Yes, this will end up with a slightly higher-power campaign, but that is mostly limited by the inability to craft things of a higher level than the crafter, and the way bonuses are split between slots. Also, a group that just wants to sit and roll these checks all day is welcome to it, as far as I'm concerned -- the game *is* all about fun. Anyway, thoughts, comments, concerns?
#2 Cyber-Dave Nov 23, 2008 18:24:00	Seems fine to me. If your characters find it fun, and you as a GM realize it will lead to a slightly higher powered campaign then normal, I see no reason why not to use this rule as a house rule.
#3 rowl Nov 29, 2008 4:38:59	I personally think that 2x roll is a little high. On an avg roll of 10, a char with 18 score (+4), trained (+5), some kind of racial, regional, or other bonus (+2), aided by another (+2), with Skill Focus (+3) is looking at 52% discount in the heroic tier (+5 more per roll for 1/2 level at lv10 = 62%). That's pretty significant. I'd go with one roll (maybe 2x for selling only, max 50% Heroic, 75% Paragon, no max at Epic - the char's ownership might be enough for the merchant to sell it at an inflated price). This gives me the idea for a new skill: Crafting. Being trained in crafting allows you to make the discount rolls for creating magical items with the Arcana skill, but also opens up options for the following feats (and similar alteration to the Alchemist feat): Blacksmith (Heroic) Prerequisites: Str 15 Benefits: You are trained in the Crafting skill and may use it to create melee weapons and metal armor. You discount the cost of materials to create these items by a percentage indicated by your skill check roll. You must have the appropriate equipment to use the skill in this manner. Superior weapons require the appropriate recipe as well. Bowyer/Fletcher (Heroic) Prerequisites: Dex 13, Str 13 Benefits: You are trained in the Crafting skill and may use it to create bows, crossbows, arrows, and bolts. You discount the cost of materials to create these items by a percentage indicated by your skill check roll. You must have the appropriate equipment to use the skill in this manner. Superior weapons require the appropriate recipe as well. Poison Maker (Paragon) Prerequisites: Int 15, Alchemist Benefits: You may use the Crafting skill to create poisons. You discount the cost of materials to create these items by a percentage indicated by your skill check roll. You must have the appropriate equipment & recipe to create these items. (Alchemist feat would be altered to include use of and training in the Crafting skill. This one would require establishment of a list of poison recipes though.) Tanner/Tailor (Heroic) Prerequisites: Dex 13 Benefits: You are trained in the Crafting skill and may use it to create leather, hide, or cloth armor as well as other clothing. You discount the cost of materials to create these items by a percentage indicated by your skill check roll. You must have the appropriate equipment to use the skill in this manner. Crafting an item takes 1 hour per gold piece of the usual cost of the item, up to a maximum work period of 10 hours per 24 hour period (except for alchemy which has the times listed under the recipes). Off the top of my head. Not much of a reason for anyone to take any of these really, except for fluff reasons, and except for Poison Maker.