Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 RaizielDragon Aug 17, 2009 14:28:30	I started a thread in the Races section concerning the Revenants Unnatural Vitality racial feature. It was decided in the thread that, as written, a Revenant with Fierce Vitality could theoretically stay conscious forever, but be unable to take actions after attempting their first death saving throw. Some of the posters agreed that it should be house ruled that you can take actions every round that you remain conscious, and I agree. I was hoping to get some more input from people as to if they think this would make it broken, or if it would fix something that was too weak to begin with. Bascially, a Revenant starts with the ability to remain conscious for 1 round after dropping into the negatives. They can also take one standard action during that round. There is a feat that also lets them take a minor action, at paragon level. Another at epic level adds in a move action. Fierce Vitality, at paragon, allows them to remain conscious until they fail 2 death saving throws, but it doesn't change the fact that Unnatural Vitality says they can only take actions until they attempt their first death saving throw. So, now that they've attempted the first, they would just stand there, conscious, dying, but not dead, and unable to take actions. A paragon path is also presented that has a 16th level feature, Unkillable, that allows them to remain conscious until they die. Also, to remind everyone, it refers to the first attempted death saving throw, not the first attempted this encounter. So if a Revenant is brought back to life after dropping to the dying condition, they would have to rest before being able to benefit from Unnatural Vitality again. I see two possible options for house-ruling this. The first would be to change Unkillable and Fierce Vitality, so that they allow you to take actions on any turn you remain conscious. The second is to change Unnatural Vitality so that it allows you to take actions while you are conscious. The difference is subtle, but may affect if the house-rule breaks it or not. The first one would not change anything unless someone takes the feats. The second one would mean that a Revenant can now benefit from Unnatural Vitality multiple times, without needing to take a rest first. EDIT: Didn't think to add in the link to the above mentioned post: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
#2 RaizielDragon Aug 30, 2009 9:44:23	The thread on the Races and Monsters forum was updated after something was pointed out to me:  If a revenant is healed before they attempt their first saving throw, they would only get to make one standard action, so they could technically get stuck, alive, conscious with no actions until they are again reduced to 0- HP and finally attempt a death saving throw. I responded with a possible fix for the class feature and an explanation of how I believe the class feature and all of the associated feats (or PP class feature) were meant to interact.  I will attempt to summarize here: Unnatural Vitality: Whenever you are reduced to 0 or fewer HP, you are dying but may choose to remain conscious.  You fall unconscious if you are still dying after attempting your first* death saving throw.  You may only take one standard action per round you are conscious. (*Earlier in the thread, it was discussed that this meant the first attempt since your last rest, not the first in this encounter, however, I postulate that this means the first one made since the characters HP value was reduced to 0 or fewer, meaning the effects of this class feature reset everytime the character takes more damage.) This re-wording would mean that a revenant couldn't take their full complement of actions on any rounds after their first round of dying, as Melos pointed out, without investing in the appropriate feats.  It makes the feats more appealing, and makes the class feature less broken, because now they don't get full turns after their first one without investing in the feats.  It also removes the chance of the character being frozen with no actions until they attempt a death saving throw. Also, as worded, it would mean that without Deaths Quickening/Ghostly Vitality, every time a revenant took more damage, they would again only have one standard action per round, even with Fierce Vitality. The only complaint I could possibly see arising over this is that Ghostly Vitality gives you a minor and a move which negates the need for Deaths Quickening, leading players to simply retrain Deaths Quickening to Ghostly Vitality at epic.  Some may think that Ghostly Vitality should only grant a move, thereby making Deaths Quickening a feat worth keeping, however I believe that once a character has a standard and a move, a feat that gives you your minor action back isn't very appealing.  Some might say that Deaths Quickening should be a pre-requisite for Ghostly Vitality, and that may be so.  I was never good at creating balance when house-ruling because I look at everything with the eye of a player more than the eye of a DM, so anything that can tip the balance in the characters favor, I am for.