Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sphereofannihilation Apr 18, 2012 15:56:38	I would like to create monsters that are higher than 30th level, but the damage charts on pg. 185 of the DMG only go to 30th. Since the various monster manuals and books have monsters up to 36th level (i.e. Bahamut), I assume WOTC has their own chart that goes up to 40th level. Does anybody know how the damage numbers on the chart would progress? I'm talking about the charts that read (in part): Damage by level                  Normal Damage expressions                 Low            Medium           High 28th-30th  2d8+10      3d8+10          4d8+10    and also:                  Limited Damage expressions                 Low            Medium           High 28th-30th 4d10+9      5d10+9            5612+9           (top portions of charts ommited for brevity) How would these two charts progress up to 40th level (I assume it would stop at 40?)
#2 Neutronium_Dragon Apr 18, 2012 18:55:25	I'm not sure about the old monster math, but with the new monster math (MM3 onward), the standard damage value is essentially 8 + level, with about half of that as the die roll portion and the other half as the static bonus, so a 40th level creature would have a damage expression in the neighborhood of 4d10 + 26. This assumes no other modifications: brutes get +25%, limited damage is at +50% or +75%, etc.
#3 dave2008 Apr 21, 2012 15:29:19	Don't use page 185 of the DMG, those values are every out of date.  The current stanard is level+8 as N_D suggested.  However, if you are making Epic monsters to fight Epic PCs, these values are still way to low (by about 30hp damage on average).  I would suggest using the chart over at DMG 42 and adjusting for extra levels:  dmg42.blogspot.com/2012/02/boot-on-face-... I hope that helps!
#4 sphereofannihilation Apr 26, 2012 18:53:25	.... mmm, dave2008, unfortunately those charts don't go past level 30. Surely SOMEONE, somewhere has posted a chart that goes to level 40? Hmm? Anyone...?
#5 dave2008 Apr 27, 2012 16:46:40	.... mmm, dave2008, unfortunately those charts don't go past level 30. Surely SOMEONE, somewhere has posted a chart that goes to level 40? Hmm? Anyone...? OK, I've done it, but I am in the process of updating to the DMG 42 blog damages so I probably will not post it until later in the weekend.
#6 dave2008 Apr 28, 2012 23:00:27	OK, Here are my damage by level charts.  The top series is based on the errate/MM3 damage expressions and the bottom series is based on the DMG 42 blog expressions.   For the DMG 42 blogs I general increased only the static damage to acheive the increased average damage.  This reduces the effect of criticals some, but the damage is very significant.  I am using the DMG 42 blog expressions on all 30+ solo monsters (primordials/ gods, etc.) and the standard MM3 expressions for other monsters (elites and standards).  FYI, if you view/print from my homepage it shouldn't be so squished.
#7 sphereofannihilation May 03, 2012 17:57:42	May the Powers bless you, dave2008! You are a lifesaver... This is really going to help a lot, since I can't do math to save my life. My players may be a little upset with both of us, however, when I unleash my 40th-level campaign-ending mega-beast on them (whatever it turn out to be). Heh heh heh...
#8 dave2008 May 04, 2012 6:03:18	No problem
#9 sphereofannihilation May 09, 2012 17:54:41	Say, dave2008, just out of curiosity I looked carefully at the damage charts in the DMG and the DMG2 (pg. 185 and 42 in the first DMG, I forget which page in the DMG2) and they ALL LOOK IDENTICAL as far as I can see, except for the fact that the chart of pg. 42 of the DMG includes the skill DC numbers (which are wrong), and the DMG2 chart corrects those skill numbers. As far as the damage dice numbers, I'm not seeing any difference between the three charts in those books... am I missing something? (P.S. I'd still like to know how those numbers were originally arrived at, even if they're too low.)
#10 dave2008 May 10, 2012 5:53:55	Say, dave2008, just out of curiosity I looked carefully at the damage charts in the DMG and the DMG2 (pg. 185 and 42 in the first DMG, I forget which page in the DMG2) and they ALL LOOK IDENTICAL as far as I can see, except for the fact that the chart of pg. 42 of the DMG includes the skill DC numbers (which are wrong), and the DMG2 chart corrects those skill numbers. As far as the damage dice numbers, I'm not seeing any difference between the three charts in those books... am I missing something? (P.S. I'd still like to know how those numbers were originally arrived at, even if they're too low.)   The damage expressions where not updated in the DMG2.  You have to go to the official errata for the first DMG to find the updated damages.  They were first used in the MM3 I believe and have appeared in the MV and MV, threats to the Nentir Vale.  You can download the errata for free from this website.
#11 Style75 May 10, 2012 11:07:11	These charts are fantastic and a huge help to anyone DM'ing epic tier. Awesome work, it is appreciated!
#12 wrecan May 10, 2012 11:42:25	Agreed.  I've added it to the Dungeon Master Resource.
#13 sphereofannihilation May 10, 2012 19:58:58	Ah, O.k. My bad - I assumed that since the skill DCs were corrected in DMG2, that the damage numbers would be right also.
#14 dave2008 May 11, 2012 9:44:57	Agreed.  I've added it to the Dungeon Master Resource. Thanks Wrecan - I didn't even know that existed!