How to add Defiling Magic to non-Dark Sun settings? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

How to add Defiling Magic to non-Dark Sun settings?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Mist-Bound
Nov 25, 2010 1:27:30 I figured that this topic went here better than it did anywhere else. I love the way that 4e handled Defiling Magic - it's simple, it's clean, and the basic mechanics of it is very easy to translate into other settings; even if you remove the side-effect of creating defiled terrain, leaving it "black magic that feeds on the souls of those around you" (ala certain Dark Pact spells the Warlock already has, but nastier), the mechanics still work.

The problem is this. In Dark Sun, all Arcanists have Defiling Magic by default - it's the natural way that arcane magic works in that setting, and while it's assumed casters will preserve unless they specify otherwise, they always instinctively know precisely how to defile. I want to make a setting where "Defiling Magic" is a kind of Dark Art - it's not an inherent part of magic, but it IS something that arcanists can learn to do, even if pretty much anyone who isn't Evil or Chaotic Evil says it Should Not Be Known.

So, does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle the Defiling Magic class feature in a setting where it's not a built-in assumption of mages? A Heroic tier feat? A... what's it called, alternative reward style treasure? How would you cover a character being able to learn this black magic at some point in their adventuring career, even if they didn't know it when they started?
#2
MechaPilot
Nov 25, 2010 1:41:39 I have a homebrew campaign setting based off of a book I wrote. In that setting, there are various flavors of magic and one of them is similar to Defiling. What I decided I will do when converting it to 4e was to make each flavor of magic into a theme that can be taken by any arcane class.
#3
pruano
Nov 25, 2010 11:09:54 If you play in FR, you can connect it to the SpellPlague.
#4
Mist-Bound
Nov 25, 2010 11:54:39 Just to be clear, I'm not asking thematically so much as I'm asking mechanically; how can I mechanically justify an arcanist being able to pick up the Arcane Defiling feature at some point after character creation, rather than making it an automatic ability like Dark Sun does?
#5
MechaPilot
Nov 25, 2010 15:01:42 It doesn't need mechanical justification. The mechanic exists (and presumably has been checked for balance), and you can choose to take advantage of it or not. Fluff is the only place where justification is required.
#6
pruano
Nov 25, 2010 16:17:56 Post-character creation, you could add it as a feat, gained voluntarily or through a curse (or sellplagued related, as already sugested).
#7
pruano
Nov 25, 2010 16:38:01 As an example, i will detail how the SpellScarred theme works.

First, you decide (with your DM) that your PC has a spellscar; this gives one of two minor traits.

To access the powers given by the spellscar, the PC needs to take the Multiclass feat "Student of the Plague", which gives access to another trait, and qualifies the PC for the multiclass feats "Novice Power", "Acolyte Power" and "Adept Power", which themselves allow access to powers specific to the SpellScarred.

There is also a Paragon Path for Spellscarred PCs, which requires the "Student of the Plague" feat.

As described, Spellscarred works as a Multiclass path.

Another approach can be a build.

The Eberron also have the Dragonmark feats, you may look how those are implemented.

Since i dont know the exact way Dark Sun deals with Defiling, im unsure which approach would be better.
#8
Mythril_Sage
Nov 26, 2010 4:37:59 As it is something that you normally can have for no cost in Dark Sun, the discovery of it could be simply plot related. If you feel there does need to be a cost then it could be given out as a boon, Theme, or magic item reward.

On a side note...Spellscarred really needs to be remade into a Theme. I makes a whole lot more sense and is less taxing on feats just for a feel. You could even keep the PP as is with the theme as a Req.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mist-Bound Nov 25, 2010 1:27:30	I figured that this topic went here better than it did anywhere else. I love the way that 4e handled Defiling Magic - it's simple, it's clean, and the basic mechanics of it is very easy to translate into other settings; even if you remove the side-effect of creating defiled terrain, leaving it "black magic that feeds on the souls of those around you" (ala certain Dark Pact spells the Warlock already has, but nastier), the mechanics still work. The problem is this. In Dark Sun, all Arcanists have Defiling Magic by default - it's the natural way that arcane magic works in that setting, and while it's assumed casters will preserve unless they specify otherwise, they always instinctively know precisely how to defile. I want to make a setting where "Defiling Magic" is a kind of Dark Art - it's not an inherent part of magic, but it IS something that arcanists can learn to do, even if pretty much anyone who isn't Evil or Chaotic Evil says it Should Not Be Known. So, does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle the Defiling Magic class feature in a setting where it's not a built-in assumption of mages? A Heroic tier feat? A... what's it called, alternative reward style treasure? How would you cover a character being able to learn this black magic at some point in their adventuring career, even if they didn't know it when they started?
#2 MechaPilot Nov 25, 2010 1:41:39	I have a homebrew campaign setting based off of a book I wrote. In that setting, there are various flavors of magic and one of them is similar to Defiling. What I decided I will do when converting it to 4e was to make each flavor of magic into a theme that can be taken by any arcane class.
#3 pruano Nov 25, 2010 11:09:54	If you play in FR, you can connect it to the SpellPlague.
#4 Mist-Bound Nov 25, 2010 11:54:39	Just to be clear, I'm not asking thematically so much as I'm asking mechanically; how can I mechanically justify an arcanist being able to pick up the Arcane Defiling feature at some point after character creation, rather than making it an automatic ability like Dark Sun does?
#5 MechaPilot Nov 25, 2010 15:01:42	It doesn't need mechanical justification. The mechanic exists (and presumably has been checked for balance), and you can choose to take advantage of it or not. Fluff is the only place where justification is required.
#6 pruano Nov 25, 2010 16:17:56	Post-character creation, you could add it as a feat, gained voluntarily or through a curse (or sellplagued related, as already sugested).
#7 pruano Nov 25, 2010 16:38:01	As an example, i will detail how the SpellScarred theme works. First, you decide (with your DM) that your PC has a spellscar; this gives one of two minor traits. To access the powers given by the spellscar, the PC needs to take the Multiclass feat "Student of the Plague", which gives access to another trait, and qualifies the PC for the multiclass feats "Novice Power", "Acolyte Power" and "Adept Power", which themselves allow access to powers specific to the SpellScarred. There is also a Paragon Path for Spellscarred PCs, which requires the "Student of the Plague" feat. As described, Spellscarred works as a Multiclass path. Another approach can be a build. The Eberron also have the Dragonmark feats, you may look how those are implemented. Since i dont know the exact way Dark Sun deals with Defiling, im unsure which approach would be better.
#8 Mythril_Sage Nov 26, 2010 4:37:59	As it is something that you normally can have for no cost in Dark Sun, the discovery of it could be simply plot related. If you feel there does need to be a cost then it could be given out as a boon, Theme, or magic item reward. On a side note...Spellscarred really needs to be remade into a Theme. I makes a whole lot more sense and is less taxing on feats just for a feel. You could even keep the PP as is with the theme as a Req.