Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 blake_marlowe Jan 28, 2010 12:33:55	wasn't sure whether this should be here or the combat forum. the problem i want to address with a house rule: encouraging more dynamic and cinematic actions from the players in my game.  some options are restricted: PCs are humans and the setting is low magic, so i'm exercising caution re: their gear. obviously, i can try to encourage this result through leading by example but that isn't enough: if there isn't a mechanics-based benefit, i don't see players being interested in doing it. i'm starting with the DMG1 table for improvised attacks and stunts but am not wild about it as is b/c those illustrate what i consider somewhat suboptimal attacks. i understand the reasoning: WOTC wants to emphasize powers. but in a long fight, you'll exhaust everything you've got and have only at-wills, which just extends the combat unnecessarily.  this is unfun for the players and for me. right now, i'm thinking that the resulting ruleset will be analogous to the improvised attacks/stunts table and require 2 columns: an "encounter power" level of effectiveness and a "daily power" level of effectiveness. i will likely peg the DCs to the medium and hard skill DC table and match the level to the PC level (maybe ratchet up the difficulty). maybe "encounter power" improvised attacks are [ability] checks with a +2 circumstance bonus (maybe i'll call it a style bonus?). if done properly, such attacks could even be a charge, thereby making it as accurate as a martial weapon attack, just no magic bennies. the damage might need upgrading, will have to check it again. for now, am thinking d8s for "encounter" vs d10 for "daily". this is all off the top of my head. i am not sure how much i care if improvised attacks rival the effectiveness of powers--however, since all the PCs have items that boost the accuracy of attacks, i think it clear that these will always be a secondary option, never a primary one. thoughts?
#2 chaosfang Jan 29, 2010 3:37:10	wasn't sure whether this should be here or the combat forum. the problem i want to address with a house rule: encouraging more dynamic and cinematic actions from the players in my game.  some options are restricted: PCs are humans and the setting is low magic, so i'm exercising caution re: their gear. obviously, i can try to encourage this result through leading by example but that isn't enough: if there isn't a mechanics-based benefit, i don't see players being interested in doing it. i'm starting with the DMG1 table for improvised attacks and stunts but am not wild about it as is b/c those illustrate what i consider somewhat suboptimal attacks. i understand the reasoning: WOTC wants to emphasize powers. but in a long fight, you'll exhaust everything you've got and have only at-wills, which just extends the combat unnecessarily.  this is unfun for the players and for me. right now, i'm thinking that the resulting ruleset will be analogous to the improvised attacks/stunts table and require 2 columns: an "encounter power" level of effectiveness and a "daily power" level of effectiveness. i will likely peg the DCs to the medium and hard skill DC table and match the level to the PC level (maybe ratchet up the difficulty). maybe "encounter power" improvised attacks are [ability] checks with a +2 circumstance bonus (maybe i'll call it a style bonus?). if done properly, such attacks could even be a charge, thereby making it as accurate as a martial weapon attack, just no magic bennies. the damage might need upgrading, will have to check it again. for now, am thinking d8s for "encounter" vs d10 for "daily". this is all off the top of my head. i am not sure how much i care if improvised attacks rival the effectiveness of powers--however, since all the PCs have items that boost the accuracy of attacks, i think it clear that these will always be a secondary option, never a primary one. thoughts? The DMG2 does give sample "terrain powers" where you could have the terrain used by anyone to their advantage, allowing for more cinematic combat, as well as suggestions for low magic campaigns. You might want to have a look at it ;) Here's a fun example (based on the DMG2 but with a custom terrain power): Let's say the party's rogue has done it again, critically failing to disarm the alarm, and now a swarm of goblins are headed their way. As everyone else runs away, the fighter pulls down one of the nearby bookshelves. He would now trigger a single-use terrain, which you could call "Bookshelf": Standard Action Requirement: You must be adjacent to the bookshelf. Check: Athletics check (hard DC) to topple the bookshelf over. Success: Bookshelf topples over, scattering books all over. Target: Each creature in a close blast 3, in the direction the bookshelf fell. Attack: Level + 3 vs Reflex Hit: 1d8 + one-half level damage, and the target is knocked prone and is dazed until the end of your next turn. Effect: The area of the blast becomes difficult terrain.
#3 mellored Jan 29, 2010 12:36:54	Something suggested in another thread.  Don't allow them to use the names of the attack powers.  They can't say "twin-strike".  They have to discribe it or they can't use it.
#4 adun_irving Jan 29, 2010 16:51:13	I've begun to build moving parts into my battle maps, such as turning gears that can trap and injure characters who stand next to them; spinning cogs which the characters can stand on and rotate each turn, and hanging chains, which give bonuses to Athletics checks. With the chains, you can make an Acrobatics or Athletics check to jump onto them as a move action, and then as part of that same action (your momentum makes the chain swing), you make a second Athletics check with a +5 bonus to the check. Alternatively, you can use a standard action to steady and grab onto a chain, and then spend a move action to make the same +5 Athletics check.
#5 blake_marlowe Jan 30, 2010 5:18:29	chaosfang: would you believe i didn't read that chapter of the DMG2 as carefully as that?  i saw your response last night and spent some time reacquainting myself with that section.  good suggestion, thanks! mellored: i like that idea, in that it would certainly kick loose some more creative descriptions.  however, i prefer to provide more options rather than disallow things as a philosophical point.  what if i provided some other form of inducement (+2 circumstance bonus for colorful descriptions)? adun irving: OK, that's a cool idea--more creative settings are a staple of films and i should pay more attention to variation in the battlefield.
#6 heathan_v20 Jan 30, 2010 19:26:37	ok well what I've done in my game is incorporate Limit Breaks, and I use the terrain powers as well. Limit Breaks are not quit encounter powers but aren't at-wills either, these add some flare and customization to at-will attacks. There is a thread on here were I've discussed Limit Breaks, and I will probably start my own thread on limit breaks for how I use them just to get them fairly balanced.
#7 mellored Jan 30, 2010 23:52:03	mellored: i like that idea, in that it would certainly kick loose some more creative descriptions.  however, i prefer to provide more options rather than disallow things as a philosophical point.  what if i provided some other form of inducement (+2 circumstance bonus for colorful descriptions)? Well i though the origional approach was pretty harsh myself (miss you're turn if you said the name), but the idea was sound.  +2 sounds like a good place to start, you can always do more/less later. Another idea, at the end of the night vote for whoever brings the most (RP) fun to the table.  (can't vote for you'reself), and that person get's an extra magic item/XP or something.  Though carefull not to leave anyone out too long.
#8 blake_marlowe Jan 31, 2010 8:28:37	heathen, if you don't create that thread, could you enlarge upon the idea of limit breaks?  i'm not at all sure i follow you. mellored: wow, that's really drastic!.  i agree the +2 sounds like a good place to start and if it doesn't produce the desired results, will adapt/remove it accordingly. guys, thanks for the suggestions, i appreciate 'em! ed
#9 heathan_v20 Jan 31, 2010 17:14:15	Well ask and ye shall recieve. So here ya go man, Limit Break Thread.