How to Kill Kalaral in 1 round. (DM's Eyes Only!) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

How to Kill Kalaral in 1 round. (DM's Eyes Only!)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
That_Blasted_Somoflange
May 25, 2008 7:31:40 I was just reading and preparing for the final battle with Kalaral in KotS, and I realized that with his tactics, he's tries to stand at the back of the magic circle, so the thing from the rift can attack any melee PC's. Well, this is good and all, but there's a way that the halfling rouge can kill Kalaral in the first round.

Now, of course this all depends on dice rolls, but considering the rogue has the highest bonus' to hit, which by that point will either be +9 or +10 you'd only need to roll a 17 (or 16 if you're 3rd level by the final encounter). Almost a 1 in 4 chance of hitting.

* The Rogue does a move action (Run) to get adjacent to Kalaral when he's in the circle.
* The Rogue uses Positioning Strike on Kalaral sliding him 3 squares backwards towards the edge of the portal.
* The Rogue spends an Action Point to get another standard action and then uses Trick Strike, by throwing a dagger, and slides Kalaral into the portal. The portal instantly slays any living creature that moves into it. Kalaral is dead.

Unfortunately, he takes his treasure with him, but I know I would personally be okay with that for the coolness of a rogue pushing the BBEG into his on portal to kill him.

DM's if you want a longer end battle, you may want to adjust the tactics if there is a rogue in the party. Or not, you may want to see if your players are creative enough to do this.
#2
vladbat
May 25, 2008 7:43:48 I have wondered about the push into hazards a lot lately. I would allow him a saving throw to go prone and avoid the insta-kill. 4e isn't suppose to have these anymore. I plan on house-ruling this for the PCs and any monster that is not a minion.
#3
jgerman
May 25, 2008 7:49:42
I was just reading and preparing for the final battle with Kalaral in KotS, and I realized that with his tactics, he's tries to stand at the back of the magic circle, so the thing from the rift can attack any melee PC's. Well, this is good and all, but there's a way that the halfling rouge can kill Kalaral in the first round.

Now, of course this all depends on dice rolls, but considering the rogue has the highest bonus' to hit, which by that point will either be +9 or +10 you'd only need to roll a 17 (or 16 if you're 3rd level by the final encounter). Almost a 1 in 4 chance of hitting.

* The Rogue does a move action (Run) to get adjacent to Kalaral when he's in the circle.
* The Rogue uses Positioning Strike on Kalaral sliding him 3 squares backwards towards the edge of the portal.
* The Rogue spends an Action Point to get another standard action and then uses Trick Strike, by throwing a dagger, and slides Kalaral into the portal. The portal instantly slays any living creature that moves into it. Kalaral is dead.

Unfortunately, he takes his treasure with him, but I know I would personally be okay with that for the coolness of a rogue pushing the BBEG into his on portal to kill him.

DM's if you want a longer end battle, you may want to adjust the tactics if there is a rogue in the party. Or not, you may want to see if your players are creative enough to do this.

You're leaving out the one major assumption: that the players know that the portal slays any living creatures that moves into it. You could play it in such a way that you hint at that possibility but they have no way of knowing by default. For all they know sliding the guy into the portal will make him more powerful... it's his portal after all. ;)

That being said, what you've described is a major selling point of 4e for me. I want tactical combat structured in a way that you can come up with combos like this. It makes me happy to see people analyzing the encounters like this.
#4
Zinger2099
May 25, 2008 10:38:03 Also, Kalarel doesn't immidiately go to his circle. He draws the PC's first to his altar and then teleports. He is trying nto avoid going into melee with the PCs as long as possible, so wait until they reach him at the altar and then put him in the magic circle. This will prevent the tactics you just listed and throw off the PCs a bit, forcing them to deal with the skeletons before moving over to Kalarel.
#5
smerg
May 26, 2008 7:45:21 Being a priest of Orcus and being that Kalaral is opening the portal for Orcus, I might rule that Kalaral is not slain by contact with the portal.

I might rule that Kalaral is 'out of the fight' for a couple of rounds but it would be very cinematic to have Kalaral to then step forward again with a bit of a boost as Orcus sent him back flanked by a pair or ghouls to make sure the portal plan worked.

Traveling to the shadow lands is not going to kill a character in 4e. It is the fact that the Big Bad Monster on the other side of the portal is likely at least a high paragon level foe and being trapped there in the shadowlands would likely be the death of the character.

Then again, if a player went into the portal by accident, I would likely not kill them either instantly. I would again have them out of combat for a couple of rounds and send a shattered mind back through the portal with visions of horrible things.

Hmm, it would definitely be time to break out the Call of Cthuhlu insanity tables and see what kind of problems the character had picked up from going eye to eye with a horror.
#6
bodyknock
May 26, 2008 12:17:05
...
* The Rogue does a move action (Run) to get adjacent to Kalaral when he's in the circle.
* The Rogue uses Positioning Strike on Kalaral sliding him 3 squares backwards towards the edge of the portal.
* The Rogue spends an Action Point to get another standard action and then uses Trick Strike, by throwing a dagger, and slides Kalaral into the portal. The portal instantly slays any living creature that moves into it. Kalaral is dead. ...

Don't forget that as a general rule combatants can make a normal saving throw to fall prone right before being forced to move into something like a pit or other deadly trap. So it's reasonable to give Kalarel a saving throw to realize at the last minute he's about to slide somewhere he shouldn't and fall prone to avoid it.

Also, as someone above pointed out, Kalarel doesn't start out next to the portal. He starts out at the altar on the far left. He only teleports to the portal later during the fight.
#7
That_Blasted_Somoflange
May 26, 2008 15:12:51 I posted this, not to complain, but rather to state my glee. I'm happy to see that if you are creative enough, and have the right mix of powers and such, you can do some really interesting things.. and this is just what I've got from the quick start rules in KotS.

I mean, I got this great mental image of a halfling bravely running up to the priest, stabbing him in the stomach so he staggers backwards towards the portal, then spinning around and throwing a dagger knocking the already off balance Kalaral into the portal. If this was combined with a coinciding closing of the portal by another pc till just after kalaral went through it would be a scene worthy of a good novel or movie.

While yes, I did want to let other DM's know about this, because I find it interesting enough a tactic.

As to the general rule about making a save to fall prone, I may have missed that, but I haven't seen any such mention of such a rule.

The possibility of Kalaral coming back with reinforcements could be intersting. I figure Orcus would be pretty ****** if Kalaral came through and probably tear him to pieces himself, if the portal didn't kill him outright. Also, I would think it would be odd that kalaral could come through with reinforcements without complete the ritual.

I did write 'first round' and that was a mistake. Still, the tactic is sound enough that a rogue could still do this. I'm just psyched with some of the stuff you can do in 4e.
#8
Dragoloth
May 26, 2008 15:53:17 As a DM I would welcome this tactic and reward XP for it, BUT. Kalaral would come back later in the campaign, more powerful, scarred by Orcus himself for his failure, and really really mad. He of course would have researched the PC's at this point to find weaknesses and he would bring plenty of backup. It makes me hope they do this when I run this module to start my 4E campaign. I have ran 2 demos of the first few encounters at my FLGS, and so far I really like it.
#9
Gold_Katana
May 27, 2008 13:52:12 Cool combo! The only technical fault is K would get a save to go prone, rather than into the portal.
#10
stormonu
May 27, 2008 17:13:44
Cool combo! The only technical fault is K would get a save to go prone, rather than into the portal.

Where is that rule so I can point it out to the players IF it comes up?
#11
devyn
May 27, 2008 18:00:25
Where is that rule so I can point it out to the players IF it comes up?

One such reference is on page 65 of KotS in the second paragraph under the entry for the well. We have extrapolated this to cover any similar situation: pits, cliffs, lava pits, bonfires, etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 That_Blasted_Somoflange May 25, 2008 7:31:40	I was just reading and preparing for the final battle with Kalaral in KotS, and I realized that with his tactics, he's tries to stand at the back of the magic circle, so the thing from the rift can attack any melee PC's. Well, this is good and all, but there's a way that the halfling rouge can kill Kalaral in the first round. Now, of course this all depends on dice rolls, but considering the rogue has the highest bonus' to hit, which by that point will either be +9 or +10 you'd only need to roll a 17 (or 16 if you're 3rd level by the final encounter). Almost a 1 in 4 chance of hitting. * The Rogue does a move action (Run) to get adjacent to Kalaral when he's in the circle. * The Rogue uses Positioning Strike on Kalaral sliding him 3 squares backwards towards the edge of the portal. * The Rogue spends an Action Point to get another standard action and then uses Trick Strike, by throwing a dagger, and slides Kalaral into the portal. The portal instantly slays any living creature that moves into it. Kalaral is dead. Unfortunately, he takes his treasure with him, but I know I would personally be okay with that for the coolness of a rogue pushing the BBEG into his on portal to kill him. DM's if you want a longer end battle, you may want to adjust the tactics if there is a rogue in the party. Or not, you may want to see if your players are creative enough to do this.
#2 vladbat May 25, 2008 7:43:48	I have wondered about the push into hazards a lot lately. I would allow him a saving throw to go prone and avoid the insta-kill. 4e isn't suppose to have these anymore. I plan on house-ruling this for the PCs and any monster that is not a minion.
#3 jgerman May 25, 2008 7:49:42	I was just reading and preparing for the final battle with Kalaral in KotS, and I realized that with his tactics, he's tries to stand at the back of the magic circle, so the thing from the rift can attack any melee PC's. Well, this is good and all, but there's a way that the halfling rouge can kill Kalaral in the first round. Now, of course this all depends on dice rolls, but considering the rogue has the highest bonus' to hit, which by that point will either be +9 or +10 you'd only need to roll a 17 (or 16 if you're 3rd level by the final encounter). Almost a 1 in 4 chance of hitting. * The Rogue does a move action (Run) to get adjacent to Kalaral when he's in the circle. * The Rogue uses Positioning Strike on Kalaral sliding him 3 squares backwards towards the edge of the portal. * The Rogue spends an Action Point to get another standard action and then uses Trick Strike, by throwing a dagger, and slides Kalaral into the portal. The portal instantly slays any living creature that moves into it. Kalaral is dead. Unfortunately, he takes his treasure with him, but I know I would personally be okay with that for the coolness of a rogue pushing the BBEG into his on portal to kill him. DM's if you want a longer end battle, you may want to adjust the tactics if there is a rogue in the party. Or not, you may want to see if your players are creative enough to do this. You're leaving out the one major assumption: that the players know that the portal slays any living creatures that moves into it. You could play it in such a way that you hint at that possibility but they have no way of knowing by default. For all they know sliding the guy into the portal will make him more powerful... it's his portal after all. ;) That being said, what you've described is a major selling point of 4e for me. I want tactical combat structured in a way that you can come up with combos like this. It makes me happy to see people analyzing the encounters like this.
#4 Zinger2099 May 25, 2008 10:38:03	Also, Kalarel doesn't immidiately go to his circle. He draws the PC's first to his altar and then teleports. He is trying nto avoid going into melee with the PCs as long as possible, so wait until they reach him at the altar and then put him in the magic circle. This will prevent the tactics you just listed and throw off the PCs a bit, forcing them to deal with the skeletons before moving over to Kalarel.
#5 smerg May 26, 2008 7:45:21	Being a priest of Orcus and being that Kalaral is opening the portal for Orcus, I might rule that Kalaral is not slain by contact with the portal. I might rule that Kalaral is 'out of the fight' for a couple of rounds but it would be very cinematic to have Kalaral to then step forward again with a bit of a boost as Orcus sent him back flanked by a pair or ghouls to make sure the portal plan worked. Traveling to the shadow lands is not going to kill a character in 4e. It is the fact that the Big Bad Monster on the other side of the portal is likely at least a high paragon level foe and being trapped there in the shadowlands would likely be the death of the character. Then again, if a player went into the portal by accident, I would likely not kill them either instantly. I would again have them out of combat for a couple of rounds and send a shattered mind back through the portal with visions of horrible things. Hmm, it would definitely be time to break out the Call of Cthuhlu insanity tables and see what kind of problems the character had picked up from going eye to eye with a horror.
#6 bodyknock May 26, 2008 12:17:05	... * The Rogue does a move action (Run) to get adjacent to Kalaral when he's in the circle. * The Rogue uses Positioning Strike on Kalaral sliding him 3 squares backwards towards the edge of the portal. * The Rogue spends an Action Point to get another standard action and then uses Trick Strike, by throwing a dagger, and slides Kalaral into the portal. The portal instantly slays any living creature that moves into it. Kalaral is dead. ... Don't forget that as a general rule combatants can make a normal saving throw to fall prone right before being forced to move into something like a pit or other deadly trap. So it's reasonable to give Kalarel a saving throw to realize at the last minute he's about to slide somewhere he shouldn't and fall prone to avoid it. Also, as someone above pointed out, Kalarel doesn't start out next to the portal. He starts out at the altar on the far left. He only teleports to the portal later during the fight.
#7 That_Blasted_Somoflange May 26, 2008 15:12:51	I posted this, not to complain, but rather to state my glee. I'm happy to see that if you are creative enough, and have the right mix of powers and such, you can do some really interesting things.. and this is just what I've got from the quick start rules in KotS. I mean, I got this great mental image of a halfling bravely running up to the priest, stabbing him in the stomach so he staggers backwards towards the portal, then spinning around and throwing a dagger knocking the already off balance Kalaral into the portal. If this was combined with a coinciding closing of the portal by another pc till just after kalaral went through it would be a scene worthy of a good novel or movie. While yes, I did want to let other DM's know about this, because I find it interesting enough a tactic. As to the general rule about making a save to fall prone, I may have missed that, but I haven't seen any such mention of such a rule. The possibility of Kalaral coming back with reinforcements could be intersting. I figure Orcus would be pretty ****** if Kalaral came through and probably tear him to pieces himself, if the portal didn't kill him outright. Also, I would think it would be odd that kalaral could come through with reinforcements without complete the ritual. I did write 'first round' and that was a mistake. Still, the tactic is sound enough that a rogue could still do this. I'm just psyched with some of the stuff you can do in 4e.
#8 Dragoloth May 26, 2008 15:53:17	As a DM I would welcome this tactic and reward XP for it, BUT. Kalaral would come back later in the campaign, more powerful, scarred by Orcus himself for his failure, and really really mad. He of course would have researched the PC's at this point to find weaknesses and he would bring plenty of backup. It makes me hope they do this when I run this module to start my 4E campaign. I have ran 2 demos of the first few encounters at my FLGS, and so far I really like it.
#9 Gold_Katana May 27, 2008 13:52:12	Cool combo! The only technical fault is K would get a save to go prone, rather than into the portal.
#10 stormonu May 27, 2008 17:13:44	Cool combo! The only technical fault is K would get a save to go prone, rather than into the portal. Where is that rule so I can point it out to the players IF it comes up?
#11 devyn May 27, 2008 18:00:25	Where is that rule so I can point it out to the players IF it comes up? One such reference is on page 65 of KotS in the second paragraph under the entry for the well. We have extrapolated this to cover any similar situation: pits, cliffs, lava pits, bonfires, etc.