How would you convert the Die Hard feat? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

How would you convert the Die Hard feat?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Tsuul
Aug 17, 2008 20:31:27 How would you convert the Die Hard feat for 4e?

Or go a completely new direction:

Or something else entirely?
#2
wyld_mutation
Aug 17, 2008 20:33:00 I'd go save through -healing surge. Make it paragon level with a Constitution requirement and two feat requirements. That way it's at least fairly hard to get.
#3
dirtyfrank
Aug 17, 2008 20:55:03 I would keep it as a one action per round.

Keep it as half movement.

No death saving throw is made. The character is stabilized.

Taking a standard action causes damage. The damage increases with tier. Such as 1 at heroic, 2 paragon, 3 epic. Although 5 at heroic, 10 at paragon, and 15 at epic may be more reasonable. Although if a character is still standing and active in combat then they will still be a target, so maybe 2, 4, 6 or something.
#4
Sinasilver
Aug 17, 2008 21:14:39 I'm not sure of the balance of this(So feel free to tear it apart), but you might try making it give access to a power that's an at will immediate reaction to being reduced to 0 or fewer hit points.. Spend 2 healing surges, gain the effect of one healing surge, and have your maximum hit points reduced by say.. 10 for every time you use, or something, until you take an extended rest.

That way it has the same feel it used to, but you can still find yourself very much so dead. And since if you burn through all your healing surges, there's... Only a handful of effects in the game that can heal you again.. I don't think it would lead to an immortal guy. Plus it has the neat effect of when they finally drop.. They're dead dead that way, as I believe you can't revive someone lacking healing surges.
#5
ravenouspuma
Aug 17, 2008 21:48:21 Is this the feat where you kill the hobgoblin and send him down in the elevator to the Beholder named Hans Gruber with a plaque on his chest that reads "Now I have a machinegun too. Ho Ho Ho"?
#6
Cohen95
Aug 17, 2008 21:59:04

#7
wyld_mutation
Aug 17, 2008 22:04:15 What are the requirements for each?
#8
Cohen95
Aug 17, 2008 22:25:16
What are the requirements for each?

Uhm...well....it was largely a joke, but...I'd imagine varying Con stats, and maybe Toughness and/or Durable? And, of course, it's a feat tree, so each is a prerequisite for the next.
#9
wyld_mutation
Aug 17, 2008 22:37:39 I knew they were a joke, however as feats they're solid.
#10
Cohen95
Aug 17, 2008 22:54:50
I knew they were a joke, however as feats they're solid.

Oh...it's funny, I always thought I generally sucked at house rules, but a lot of people seem to consider my suggestions fair, if just a little underpowered.
#11
Tsuul
Aug 18, 2008 1:19:48 That's pretty funny.
#12
Saric
Aug 18, 2008 2:39:59 When converting some feats over for my campaign awhile ago I had various incarnations based on similar trains of thought also made by the OP. The final version I came up with is as so: (I embraced the 4th edition kind for my campaign.)

Diehard (Paragon Tier)
Prerequisites: Trained in Endurance
Benefit: When you make a death saving throw, roll twice and use the higher result.

Edit: I'm going to post the other versions I made for sake of completeness.

Diehard (Paragon Tier)
Prerequisites: Con 15, Trained in Endurance
Benefit: When your hit points fall to 0 or lower, you can choose to choose to be dazed and dying rather than unconscious and dying. If you choose to stay conscious, you lose two healing surges from your daily allotment. However, if you ever perform an action that your dm deems to be strenuous (attacking, running, swimming in a storm, etc) while in the dying condition, you automatically fail your death saving throw on your turn and lose 5 hit points after you accomplish the action.
At 11th level the loss of hit points increases to 10 hit points and at 21st level it is 20 hit points.
Special: You must have at least two healing surges available to gain this feat’s benefit.

Diehard (Heroic Tier)
Prerequisites: Con 15, Trained in Endurance
Benefit: You gain a +2 Feat bonus to death saving throws.

The last version I believe came from an idea based on another thread
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1054296

Diehard (Heroic Tier)
Prerequisites: Con 15, Trained in Endurance
Benefit: You can can remain conscious despite being at 0 hit points or lower. If you chose to remain conscious, any strenuous activity such as attacking,running,(etc) makes you automatically fail your death saving throw at the end of your turn.

All in all, I'm thinking the first one captures the 4th edition feel, while the 2nd = 3rd edition written all over it which is why its seems too complex in nature for a feat. The other two didn't seem very interesting or balanced which is why I didn't use them.

Hope this helps you.
#13
Novacat
Aug 18, 2008 18:09:13 How I would do it, without reading the rest of this thread, is this:

Die Hard (Paragon)
Prerequisites: CON 15, Durable
Benefit: When reduced to 0 or fewer HP, you may immediately make a saving throw to remain conscious. Each round, make a saving throw. Success means you remain conscious, while failure means you fall unconscious but are automatically stable. You still die when reduce to negative half your normal HP.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Tsuul Aug 17, 2008 20:31:27	How would you convert the Die Hard feat for 4e? Or go a completely new direction: Or something else entirely?
#2 wyld_mutation Aug 17, 2008 20:33:00	I'd go save through -healing surge. Make it paragon level with a Constitution requirement and two feat requirements. That way it's at least fairly hard to get.
#3 dirtyfrank Aug 17, 2008 20:55:03	I would keep it as a one action per round. Keep it as half movement. No death saving throw is made. The character is stabilized. Taking a standard action causes damage. The damage increases with tier. Such as 1 at heroic, 2 paragon, 3 epic. Although 5 at heroic, 10 at paragon, and 15 at epic may be more reasonable. Although if a character is still standing and active in combat then they will still be a target, so maybe 2, 4, 6 or something.
#4 Sinasilver Aug 17, 2008 21:14:39	I'm not sure of the balance of this(So feel free to tear it apart), but you might try making it give access to a power that's an at will immediate reaction to being reduced to 0 or fewer hit points.. Spend 2 healing surges, gain the effect of one healing surge, and have your maximum hit points reduced by say.. 10 for every time you use, or something, until you take an extended rest. That way it has the same feel it used to, but you can still find yourself very much so dead. And since if you burn through all your healing surges, there's... Only a handful of effects in the game that can heal you again.. I don't think it would lead to an immortal guy. Plus it has the neat effect of when they finally drop.. They're dead dead that way, as I believe you can't revive someone lacking healing surges.
#5 ravenouspuma Aug 17, 2008 21:48:21	Is this the feat where you kill the hobgoblin and send him down in the elevator to the Beholder named Hans Gruber with a plaque on his chest that reads "Now I have a machinegun too. Ho Ho Ho"?
#6 Cohen95 Aug 17, 2008 21:59:04
#7 wyld_mutation Aug 17, 2008 22:04:15	What are the requirements for each?
#8 Cohen95 Aug 17, 2008 22:25:16	What are the requirements for each? Uhm...well....it was largely a joke, but...I'd imagine varying Con stats, and maybe Toughness and/or Durable? And, of course, it's a feat tree, so each is a prerequisite for the next.
#9 wyld_mutation Aug 17, 2008 22:37:39	I knew they were a joke, however as feats they're solid.
#10 Cohen95 Aug 17, 2008 22:54:50	I knew they were a joke, however as feats they're solid. Oh...it's funny, I always thought I generally sucked at house rules, but a lot of people seem to consider my suggestions fair, if just a little underpowered.
#11 Tsuul Aug 18, 2008 1:19:48	That's pretty funny.
#12 Saric Aug 18, 2008 2:39:59	When converting some feats over for my campaign awhile ago I had various incarnations based on similar trains of thought also made by the OP. The final version I came up with is as so: (I embraced the 4th edition kind for my campaign.) Diehard (Paragon Tier) Prerequisites: Trained in Endurance Benefit: When you make a death saving throw, roll twice and use the higher result. Edit: I'm going to post the other versions I made for sake of completeness. Diehard (Paragon Tier) Prerequisites: Con 15, Trained in Endurance Benefit: When your hit points fall to 0 or lower, you can choose to choose to be dazed and dying rather than unconscious and dying. If you choose to stay conscious, you lose two healing surges from your daily allotment. However, if you ever perform an action that your dm deems to be strenuous (attacking, running, swimming in a storm, etc) while in the dying condition, you automatically fail your death saving throw on your turn and lose 5 hit points after you accomplish the action. At 11th level the loss of hit points increases to 10 hit points and at 21st level it is 20 hit points. Special: You must have at least two healing surges available to gain this feat’s benefit. Diehard (Heroic Tier) Prerequisites: Con 15, Trained in Endurance Benefit: You gain a +2 Feat bonus to death saving throws. The last version I believe came from an idea based on another thread http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1054296 Diehard (Heroic Tier) Prerequisites: Con 15, Trained in Endurance Benefit: You can can remain conscious despite being at 0 hit points or lower. If you chose to remain conscious, any strenuous activity such as attacking,running,(etc) makes you automatically fail your death saving throw at the end of your turn. All in all, I'm thinking the first one captures the 4th edition feel, while the 2nd = 3rd edition written all over it which is why its seems too complex in nature for a feat. The other two didn't seem very interesting or balanced which is why I didn't use them. Hope this helps you.
#13 Novacat Aug 18, 2008 18:09:13	How I would do it, without reading the rest of this thread, is this: Die Hard (Paragon) Prerequisites: CON 15, Durable Benefit: When reduced to 0 or fewer HP, you may immediately make a saving throw to remain conscious. Each round, make a saving throw. Success means you remain conscious, while failure means you fall unconscious but are automatically stable. You still die when reduce to negative half your normal HP.