Human/goblin alliance? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Human/goblin alliance?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
monkeydm
May 06, 2009 4:14:41 Just wanted to vet this amongst the DM nation...

How likely would civilized humans and (hob)goblins be to join forces against a common enemy?

The thought occurred to me today as a possible twist to a campaign.

A war is being provoked between "civilized" races and goblin races. It's a plot, neither side really wants the war - a league of necromancers and liches plans to raise an undead army from the slain. They'll be raising goblin zombies as well as human from the carnage.

At some point the remaining humans and goblins will realize what happened and be threatened by this undead army, which will be too powerful for either to defeat alone. (The PC's will be on related quests and after some key villains behind the whole plot, special-forces-style).

As a plot backdrop, what are the odds that the more powerful hobgoblin chiefs might actually approach the human leaders and join forces against the undead, in an uneasy alliance? I wouldn't consider it with some race more thoroughly sinister like demon-loving gnolls or Orcus-worshipping orcs, but goblins seem to me a cut below that and willing to make a deal for self-preservation.
#2
gregt_314
May 06, 2009 4:34:36 Hobgoblins are civilized, reasonably intelligent, and practical. The only real obstacle to them getting along with humans is a lack of empathy for other living beings, which isn't really a problem when it's their own skin on the line.
#3
kaliban7
May 06, 2009 5:10:42 Hobgoblins, at least in 4E, are conqueror, but they are not idiots.
If they think an alliance, or a peace treaty, is needed, they will try it. At least for some time.
In one of my campaigns, hobgoblins are using the PCs as ambassadors with the local king, they offer their assistance in exchange for a territory on the king's domain, because they have to flee their old territory (invaded by other ennemies), and are too few to fight for it.
#4
Fedosu
May 06, 2009 12:49:58 It's your world, whatever you want to do is viable.
#5
lord_karsus
May 07, 2009 19:41:58 -The enemy of your enemy is your friend. Goblinoids aren't inherently evil, like Demons, Devils, or Yugoloth, so making alliances with other non-Goblinoids, for self-protection isn't anything I'd see as odd. Maintaining that alliance, there might be some problems, but forging it in the first place isn't that out of left field, in my opinion.
#6
monkeydm
May 07, 2009 20:53:05 Thanks for all the feedback, this will make a good campaign twist.
#7
green_girl
May 07, 2009 21:34:45 In Tome of battle, there was a story about hobgoblins marching to help a monastery owned by a human. They were deeply bonded. I'm away from my books at the moment, but that indeed happened, at least in 3.5.
#8
space_dragon
May 07, 2009 22:20:02 Goblins will ally with others if it is in their own interest. Its not likely that they will remain friendly with the humans once the necromancers have been defeated, but for the time being they would cooperate.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 monkeydm May 06, 2009 4:14:41	Just wanted to vet this amongst the DM nation... How likely would civilized humans and (hob)goblins be to join forces against a common enemy? The thought occurred to me today as a possible twist to a campaign. A war is being provoked between "civilized" races and goblin races. It's a plot, neither side really wants the war - a league of necromancers and liches plans to raise an undead army from the slain. They'll be raising goblin zombies as well as human from the carnage. At some point the remaining humans and goblins will realize what happened and be threatened by this undead army, which will be too powerful for either to defeat alone. (The PC's will be on related quests and after some key villains behind the whole plot, special-forces-style). As a plot backdrop, what are the odds that the more powerful hobgoblin chiefs might actually approach the human leaders and join forces against the undead, in an uneasy alliance? I wouldn't consider it with some race more thoroughly sinister like demon-loving gnolls or Orcus-worshipping orcs, but goblins seem to me a cut below that and willing to make a deal for self-preservation.
#2 gregt_314 May 06, 2009 4:34:36	Hobgoblins are civilized, reasonably intelligent, and practical. The only real obstacle to them getting along with humans is a lack of empathy for other living beings, which isn't really a problem when it's their own skin on the line.
#3 kaliban7 May 06, 2009 5:10:42	Hobgoblins, at least in 4E, are conqueror, but they are not idiots. If they think an alliance, or a peace treaty, is needed, they will try it. At least for some time. In one of my campaigns, hobgoblins are using the PCs as ambassadors with the local king, they offer their assistance in exchange for a territory on the king's domain, because they have to flee their old territory (invaded by other ennemies), and are too few to fight for it.
#4 Fedosu May 06, 2009 12:49:58	It's your world, whatever you want to do is viable.
#5 lord_karsus May 07, 2009 19:41:58	-The enemy of your enemy is your friend. Goblinoids aren't inherently evil, like Demons, Devils, or Yugoloth, so making alliances with other non-Goblinoids, for self-protection isn't anything I'd see as odd. Maintaining that alliance, there might be some problems, but forging it in the first place isn't that out of left field, in my opinion.
#6 monkeydm May 07, 2009 20:53:05	Thanks for all the feedback, this will make a good campaign twist.
#7 green_girl May 07, 2009 21:34:45	In Tome of battle, there was a story about hobgoblins marching to help a monastery owned by a human. They were deeply bonded. I'm away from my books at the moment, but that indeed happened, at least in 3.5.
#8 space_dragon May 07, 2009 22:20:02	Goblins will ally with others if it is in their own interest. Its not likely that they will remain friendly with the humans once the necromancers have been defeated, but for the time being they would cooperate.