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Hybrid as a multiclass feat

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
stargazer_dragon
Jun 19, 2011 5:07:56 The idea was started in a difrent thread and kinda evolved into making a new set of multiclass feats that would replace the curent ones and resoult in a similar effect as hybriding.

**original thread found here -community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

_______________________

So the feat line would look something like this for the cleric. Note I made the healing word and chanel devinity take 2 feats for balence reasons. Any hybrid feature that required the feat hybrid talent would eather be dropped in the case of things already possible with a feat or cost 2 difrent feats to bring the balence closer to curent feats.

Hybrid Cleric
Teir: Heroic
Prerequisites: Wis 15

The char can swap up to half of his at will powers, encounter, and daily powers with cleric powers of the same type and level, Gain cleric impliment proficiency, and gain Healing lore class feature.
Special: Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers.

Hybrid Cleric - Healing Word
Teir: Heroic
Prerequisites: Hybrid Cleric feat
The char Gains the Healing Word power as a daily power usable up to two times per day but not more then once per encounter.
Special: Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers.

Hybrid cleric - Improved Healing Word
Teir: Heroic
Prerequisites: Hybrid Cleric - Healing Word feat
     Healing Word becomes a encounter power instead oa daily power.
Special: Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers.

Hybrid Cleric - Channel Divinity
Teir: Heroic
Prerequisites: Hybrid Cleric feat

   You gain a single channel divinty power of your choice as a daily power
Special: Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers.

Hybrid Cleric - Improved Channel Divinity
Teir: Heroic
Prerequisites: Hybrid Cleric - Channel Divinity feat

   Your chanel divinity becomes a encounter power.
Special: Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers.

Hybrid Cleric - Cleric skills
Teir: Heroic
Prerequisites: Hybrid Cleric feat

Cleric skills become class skills. You also gain training in Healing skill.
Special: Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers.

____________________
Do you guys think this sort of multi class feat option would be overpowered compared to curent options? how might such a set up be balenced further
#2
slobo777a
Jun 19, 2011 6:07:36 I think this can work.

In the current MC rules, for the investment of 4 feats at level 10, a character can have an At-Will (as an Encounter), a Utility, an Encounter and a Daily from the alternate class. Those swaps do not usually have class boundary restrictions on class features (unless the features themselves already have that restriction).

In your variant, by restricting class features the initial feat appears to grant a lot, but actually it isn't that useful. There may be some exploits hidden though - especially amongst swapped-in Dailies with stances or "until the end of the encounter" features. Either that, or it will be a problem to adjudicate - does a swapped stance that gives you extra defences fail if you use your core class power with it? If so, then what about one that gives you extra damage on each attack (which crosses over into striker feature territory)?

The Channel Divinity is an interesting mechanic to apply feats to - in practice I think your granting of a single CD power using two feats is too weak. Divine classes that access CD get the ability to spend a Feat to gain a sometimes-useful Encounter power, and each feat spent covers some new situation. I would go with Hybrid Cleric - Channel Divinity opening up access to CD feature 1/day in general (plus a single CD power), and allow that to improve 1/encounter in general using Hybrid Cleric - Improved Channel Divinity - but make that latter feat a Paragon one.

On fact you could probably do that with a lot of MC features in your scheme - basic access as a Heroic feat, and more complete access at Paragon.

#3
stargazer_dragon
Jun 19, 2011 6:33:48 Figured that any feature a hybrid char could get before paragon should be a heroic feat. then could continue the progress with paragon powers requiring a paragon feat though that could get more complicated to balence will do heroic first since thats the core of the chars.

As for chanel divinity, reading back over it is probably better to grant a single channel dvinity and grant acces to the divinty feats with only 1 feat since these powers seam to have limited use and are already restricted to one per encounter. though perhaps a paragon teir improved version could be done not sure yet would have to research that teir after heroic is all done which will be a while since theres a lot of classes to do.

Over all you think the current feats work prety well to replace what was there? you think they are balenced proeperaly over all. Will wait for more feadback before moving forward with the prodject.

Still got a handfull of other prodjects I am also working on
#4
iqwinn
Jun 19, 2011 13:57:49 Something else that I just considered is that with hybrids, you gain the armor proficiencies that both classes share. Depending on which classes you mix, it could be kinda sucky.

Very interesting concept, though! Me likee!
#5
stargazer_dragon
Jun 19, 2011 14:42:32 I concidered that but if I allowed a feat to grant all the armor then it would null in void current armor feats also and seamed overpowered, though granting the weapon proficiencey would work ok, add to impliment proficency a line that also adds weapon proficency of that class, armor pro would still be best obtained via current armor pro feats, could further prevent over powered comboes and maintain a feal that your actual class is the mian class specialy since most classes have a feature that grantes them extra armor if they are restricted to light armor, over all reguardless of allowed armor most classes are already prety balenced defence wise. Givent his I guess those features are also restricted to light armor so heavier armor could be more of a fluff effect then a actual stat effect so perhaps not overpowered to allow a multiclass feat to grant armor proficency of the class though plat armor would require a second feat since it stands above other heavy armors. this would take further thought for balence
#6
rampant
Jun 19, 2011 19:01:51 Just for clarity you mean for the feat taker to be able to swap up to half their powers in any given category (encounter, daily, utility, at-will), right?

The way you have it written it could be ready to mean half the total number, so that we run into people swapping out all of their attack powers or all their utilities.
#7
stargazer_dragon
Jun 19, 2011 19:13:09 Ment they could swap up to half of each type so half of there at wills, half of there utility, half of there encounter and half of there dailies. Basicaly same restriction hybrid class has least half of each type of power needs to be a class power the rest may be the multiclass power. will need to look into rewording it

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 stargazer_dragon Jun 19, 2011 5:07:56	The idea was started in a difrent thread and kinda evolved into making a new set of multiclass feats that would replace the curent ones and resoult in a similar effect as hybriding. original thread found here -community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... _______________________ So the feat line would look something like this for the cleric. Note I made the healing word and chanel devinity take 2 feats for balence reasons. Any hybrid feature that required the feat hybrid talent would eather be dropped in the case of things already possible with a feat or cost 2 difrent feats to bring the balence closer to curent feats. Hybrid Cleric Teir: Heroic Prerequisites: Wis 15 The char can swap up to half of his at will powers, encounter, and daily powers with cleric powers of the same type and level, Gain cleric impliment proficiency, and gain Healing lore class feature. Special: Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers. Hybrid Cleric - Healing Word Teir: Heroic Prerequisites: Hybrid Cleric feat The char Gains the Healing Word power as a daily power usable up to two times per day but not more then once per encounter. Special: Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers. Hybrid cleric - Improved Healing Word Teir: Heroic Prerequisites: Hybrid Cleric - Healing Word feat Healing Word becomes a encounter power instead oa daily power. Special: Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers. Hybrid Cleric - Channel Divinity Teir: Heroic Prerequisites: Hybrid Cleric feat You gain a single channel divinty power of your choice as a daily power Special: Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers. Hybrid Cleric - Improved Channel Divinity Teir: Heroic Prerequisites: Hybrid Cleric - Channel Divinity feat Your chanel divinity becomes a encounter power. Special: Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers. Hybrid Cleric - Cleric skills Teir: Heroic Prerequisites: Hybrid Cleric feat Cleric skills become class skills. You also gain training in Healing skill. Special:** Powers/features gained with this feat can not be used with non cleric class features/powers. ____________________ Do you guys think this sort of multi class feat option would be overpowered compared to curent options? how might such a set up be balenced further
#2 slobo777a Jun 19, 2011 6:07:36	I think this can work. In the current MC rules, for the investment of 4 feats at level 10, a character can have an At-Will (as an Encounter), a Utility, an Encounter and a Daily from the alternate class. Those swaps do not usually have class boundary restrictions on class features (unless the features themselves already have that restriction). In your variant, by restricting class features the initial feat appears to grant a lot, but actually it isn't that useful. There may be some exploits hidden though - especially amongst swapped-in Dailies with stances or "until the end of the encounter" features. Either that, or it will be a problem to adjudicate - does a swapped stance that gives you extra defences fail if you use your core class power with it? If so, then what about one that gives you extra damage on each attack (which crosses over into striker feature territory)? The Channel Divinity is an interesting mechanic to apply feats to - in practice I think your granting of a single CD power using two feats is too weak. Divine classes that access CD get the ability to spend a Feat to gain a sometimes-useful Encounter power, and each feat spent covers some new situation. I would go with Hybrid Cleric - Channel Divinity opening up access to CD feature 1/day in general (plus a single CD power), and allow that to improve 1/encounter in general using Hybrid Cleric - Improved Channel Divinity - but make that latter feat a Paragon one. On fact you could probably do that with a lot of MC features in your scheme - basic access as a Heroic feat, and more complete access at Paragon.
#3 stargazer_dragon Jun 19, 2011 6:33:48	Figured that any feature a hybrid char could get before paragon should be a heroic feat. then could continue the progress with paragon powers requiring a paragon feat though that could get more complicated to balence will do heroic first since thats the core of the chars. As for chanel divinity, reading back over it is probably better to grant a single channel dvinity and grant acces to the divinty feats with only 1 feat since these powers seam to have limited use and are already restricted to one per encounter. though perhaps a paragon teir improved version could be done not sure yet would have to research that teir after heroic is all done which will be a while since theres a lot of classes to do. Over all you think the current feats work prety well to replace what was there? you think they are balenced proeperaly over all. Will wait for more feadback before moving forward with the prodject. Still got a handfull of other prodjects I am also working on
#4 iqwinn Jun 19, 2011 13:57:49	Something else that I just considered is that with hybrids, you gain the armor proficiencies that both classes share. Depending on which classes you mix, it could be kinda sucky. Very interesting concept, though! Me likee!
#5 stargazer_dragon Jun 19, 2011 14:42:32	I concidered that but if I allowed a feat to grant all the armor then it would null in void current armor feats also and seamed overpowered, though granting the weapon proficiencey would work ok, add to impliment proficency a line that also adds weapon proficency of that class, armor pro would still be best obtained via current armor pro feats, could further prevent over powered comboes and maintain a feal that your actual class is the mian class specialy since most classes have a feature that grantes them extra armor if they are restricted to light armor, over all reguardless of allowed armor most classes are already prety balenced defence wise. Givent his I guess those features are also restricted to light armor so heavier armor could be more of a fluff effect then a actual stat effect so perhaps not overpowered to allow a multiclass feat to grant armor proficency of the class though plat armor would require a second feat since it stands above other heavy armors. this would take further thought for balence
#6 rampant Jun 19, 2011 19:01:51	Just for clarity you mean for the feat taker to be able to swap up to half their powers in any given category (encounter, daily, utility, at-will), right? The way you have it written it could be ready to mean half the total number, so that we run into people swapping out all of their attack powers or all their utilities.
#7 stargazer_dragon Jun 19, 2011 19:13:09	Ment they could swap up to half of each type so half of there at wills, half of there utility, half of there encounter and half of there dailies. Basicaly same restriction hybrid class has least half of each type of power needs to be a class power the rest may be the multiclass power. will need to look into rewording it