I'd like to see more powers available in higher levels

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

griffonwing

Jul 14, 2008 13:26:05
As it stands now. At 11th level, you know 4 Encounter Attack powers. At 20th level you learn your 4th Daily Attack power. So an 11th level Paragon rookie knows the exact same number of encounter attacks as a 30th level Epic master Demigod. He just knows more powerful moves. It seems a bit under powered to me.

Now, I can see only being able to utilize 4 each, but, like the wizard, I believe you should have more options at your disposal. You should have powers known, and powers used. You can only use 4 each, but your repertoire should be larger. I'd say it would be much easier to increase the powers known to 6 Encounter and 6 Daily.

Powers should be similar to Wizards spells in that regard. In this manner, you have an option, and you don't have to give up a lower leveled attack with a fancy ability to get a higher level attack that is higher damage but less flashy.

Let's take a high-level Ranger, for example. Unstoppable Arrows (Lv 25 Daily). Close Blast 5 - Ranged. Each enemy in blast, 3[W] + Dex. I must replace either Close Quarters Shot (Lv 9) allowing adjacent target, 4[W] damage with no OA, Bleeding Wounds (Lv 15) which deals ongoing damage based on whether 1, 2 or 3 attaks hit, VERY nice, Great Ram Arrow (Lv 19) 3[W] + Dex, push target STR mod, and knocked prone. I can't replace Beast Stalker Target as it's Paragon Path power.

Here's an idea. Perhaps make it so that your Paragon Path powers are bonus powers known. Evn with this option, your powers are still quite limited. I still think 4 Encounter/Daily should be increased to 6 Encounter/Daily, even though you can only perform 4.

Your thoughts?
#2

aluman

Jul 14, 2008 16:04:27
1. 11th level isn't a rookie, in 1e 11th level was beyond retirment and still is.

2. I think the main reason they limit the number of powers available is to keep the paperwork down, so instead of twenty odd powers a person there is 10.

I think in general the only thing your solution does is weaken the wizard. That could be unbalancing anyway, other than that it gives options.
#3

alphasquirell

Jul 14, 2008 16:21:46
Well, if you knew 6 but could only use 4 in any given encounter, more or less all it does is give you more options. Instead of having 1 encounter power left, you have 1 encounter power use but 3 powers to pick from.


Sure, extra options could be unbalancing, but with what has been suggested, the power level of a character is the same over any given encounter.
#4

griffonwing

Jul 15, 2008 8:19:22
1. 11th level isn't a rookie, in 1e 11th level was beyond retirment and still is.

2. I think the main reason they limit the number of powers available is to keep the paperwork down, so instead of twenty odd powers a person there is 10.

I think in general the only thing your solution does is weaken the wizard. That could be unbalancing anyway, other than that it gives options.

Actually, when I said "Paragon Rookie" the rookie was simply a descriptor of the rank of Paragon...ergo, the lowest end of Paragon. Also, 30th being the Master end of Epic. Level 20 would be Paragon Master, and level 21 would be Epic Rookie.

And it wouldn't weaken the wizard one iota. The wizard would still have many more power options as any other class, but all other classes would only receive 2 extra power options, plus the paragon path freebies. And as for paperwork, I don't think anyone would mind the 'paperwork' involving keeping track of a couple more powers.
#5

aluman

Jul 15, 2008 11:32:42
And it wouldn't weaken the wizard one iota. The wizard would still have many more power options as any other class, but all other classes would only receive 2 extra power options, plus the paragon path freebies. And as for paperwork, I don't think anyone would mind the 'paperwork' involving keeping track of a couple more powers.

Right now one of the things that seperate wizards from other classes is the fact they get to choose more powers. By the book they have choose at the beginning of the day which ones they get to use.

These rules allow people to choose on the fly which powers to use, this means that the Spellbook class feature degrades in value, its probably not much as to me its a minor thing, but before implementation it still has to be considered.

Yes with your proposal the amount of paperwork isn't dramatically increased, I meant in general why they don't bother with full count of Encounter, Daily, and utility (1 for each available level) is that the paperwork becomes unweildy and with certain groups you wind up with 5-10 minute combat turns (like some players with the old wizard who are never ready).
#6

griffonwing

Jul 15, 2008 13:36:35
Personally, I think at higher levels, the Wizard should be able to cast more lower level spells.

On his second Paragon path feature, level 16, he should be able to memorize and cast one more encounter attack and one more daily attack of heroic level.

On his second Epic Path feature, Level 24, he should add one more encounter and daily attack from Paragon level.

In this manner, it would even out. The Wizard would be able to cast more spells and everyone else would have a few more options.

hrmm...i suppose it's at least something to think about. I just find it hard to fathom that learning a new power or spell automaticlaly makes you forget a power or spell you've have to 15 levels or more. And I'm trying to find a fair way around it.
#7

griffonwing

Jul 18, 2008 11:26:29
Instead of House-Ruling the extra powers, I decided to balance it out by creating what I think is a fair feat. As you can see, these feats can only be taken once, so there is no exchanging of, for example, 5 feats for 5 extra attack powers.

Paragon Dilettante
Prerequisite: Level 11
Benefit: When you normally replace a Paragon daily or encounter attack power, you may simply add the power instead of replacing an older one. . You are still only allowed to use the maximum number listed for your level, according to the Character Advancement table, as this only gives you an extra option.

If you have already replaced a power, you may simply relearn one that has been replaced.

Epic Dilettante
Prerequisite: Level 21, Paragon Dilettante
Benefit: When you normally replace an Epic daily or encounter attack power, you may simply add the power instead of replacing an older one. You are still only allowed to use the maximum number listed for your level, according to the Character Advancement table, as this only gives you an extra option.

If you have already replaced a power, you may simply relearn one that has been replaced.
=============================

These 2 Dilettante feats will ultimately allow a character to have 2 more options on the Daily or Encounter Attack skills than is normally allowed. Similar to the Wizard’s power list, although nowhere near as many.

So in this manner, you can grab a higher level paragon/epic attack power without having to sacrifice a lower tier, albiet very handy power.