So, all you forum-goers our there who can't balance or think up abilities well, please start posting!
Thanks in advance!!!
So on my wishlist is an Archery based Martial Controller (new class entirely) that uses a variety of arrows to create different effects (nets, dropping caltrops, starting fires etc)
Also a Runic Mage type (either as a Wizard build or as a new class entirely) that uses runes and such to perform his magic, and a Mounted Fighter that uses charges and mobility to his advantage. And a some new Sorcerer builds (new bloodlines essnetially. Like Fey and Celestial, though I suppose I can wait and see what the Arcane power will have)
So on my wishlist is an Archery based Martial Controller (new class entirely) that uses a variety of arrows to create different effects (nets, dropping caltrops, starting fires etc)
Would the different builds make use of a different assortment of weapons?
Also have you selected specific weapons you want it to use?
The hardest thing in any of this is balance, which is key. Once you have a good understanding of what balance in 4E represents, the easier it is to work with something. I like this thread, I'll definitely check it out every now and then when I have time.
Another request: A combination axe-guitar for my bardic rendition of Jimi Hendrix.
Would the different builds make use of a different assortment of weapons?
Also have you selected specific weapons you want it to use?
Possibly. One build could be more bow based with another being more crossbow based. You could also put thrown weapons into the mix I would think.
Definetly bows and crossbows. Single handed swords for close combat, though modifying a bow to be used in a similar manner as a quarterstaff would be kind of cool, same with the idea of stabbing monsters with arrows. I would think that spears work best for the thrown weapon option, as do javelins or throwing knives. Erk is already designing one based along the spear/polearm route, but I think his is primarily a polearm user with melee abilities.
Believe me, any ideas on this archer class is more than welcome.
By the way, if this thread picks up any, I personally think it should be stickied as a Request thread.
I'm good at balancing, but I vowed never to get caught up in the whole martial controller crap.
That's fine, to each his own. Any ideas on the other two classes in my post?
I can understand people who are running some specific campaign that needs a class for flavour reasons or whatever, but the people just making classes to have more classes - what the hell?
Berserker (to fill in as two-handed martial melee striker before barb)
Death Knight (Plate arcane two-handed defender)
Necromancer (Ongoing damage pet master striker with minor in controller or defender)
The only classes I made are:
Berserker (to fill in as two-handed martial melee striker before barb)
Death Knight (Plate arcane two-handed defender)
Necromancer (Ongoing damage pet master striker with minor in controller or defender)
Are those classes completed, or still WIPs?
Death Knight is finished after a reworking.
Necromancer needs to be finished...and worked on...
I'm always a little baffled by this kind of thing. Have you seriously played out the, what, 18 or so currently available classes already? In all builds? I don't expect to play 18 different characters over the course of the edition, total, let alone find myself bored of them already.
I can understand people who are running some specific campaign that needs a class for flavour reasons or whatever, but the people just making classes to have more classes - what the hell?
In my case it's exactly what you mentioned. They are for a homebrew campaign world that I want as flavor that simple refluffing won't work for. A ranger for example isn't going to be able to cover the sort of thing I want for the Archer class I talked about in my post above. I need a more controller-ish class for that.
The mounted knight/cavalier type I want isn't covered by any of the classes, and Runic Mage could possibly just be a new Wizard build though I think a new class entirely may work better for what I have in mind (I want the runes to actually have mechanics in the game, like different spells coming from different combination of runes etc.). The Celestial and Fey bloodlines for the Sorcerer would obviously be new builds, but Arcane Power might have what I want in it for all I know right now.
Now my own reasons for wanting new classes notwithstanding. There are dozens of classes that are not covered by the current rules, and some may come out in future books, but people are impatient and want something they can use right now, and I can understand that. At least this way they have something they can work with until the real thing comes out. I'll admit that I'm one of those people. Like the fact that the Monster Manuel 2 is coming out later this year. Well I'm building a campaign right now. I want the extra monsters from that book right now. I'd rather not have to shoehorn in new monsters in the middle of my pre-built campaign and figure out how they fit into my world's ecology and such when that book does come out. Reality is, I will have to if I want to use anything from that book. But with classes, races, and feats we don't have to wait if we can get feedback on this forum/thread.
The other thing that goes with what I said above is that there are some classes that are not out in this edition yet, and others that may never see the light of day in this edition for all we know. So people want to play that particular class or classes so they want it created. Some classes are being born as a result of options being taken away from specific classes. The wizard for example used to have specialists. Obviously those no longer exist. So now we have to build them as a seperate class altogether if we want multiple options (builds) for them, or as a seperate wizard build which will limit options somewhat.
I hope that helps explain some of our motives and desires to see new classes built.
Power Rangers in 4e - KainHighwind - "I Need Help in Indulging my Ultra-Nerdy Fantasies"
Ranged martial controller - Phantymwolf - "Martial Controller?"
Rune Mage - Phantymwolf
Mounted Fighter - Phantymwolf
Fey and Celestial Sorcerer Builds - Phantymwolf
Balanced Shifter - Kayhnis - "[4E] Unshafting the Shifter (P.E.A.C.H)" or "[4E] The Shifter Race, v2.0 - Upgraded"
Ranged Warlord build - MatthewSwift
I would really like to have a class, and my thought on the class would be that they would get Runes as building blocks to their powers. It would be a versatile class (maybe too much so), able to combine runes during combat to build their powers on the spot. Add one rune to this other rune and you get this at-will power. Add a different second rune to the first and get a different at-will power. Add a third rune for an added effect (like pushing) that diminishes one of the previous effects (like damage).It would have to be a tightly controlled class, otherwise it would be too easy to abuse obviously. Any thoughts on either of the above ideas or the class idea?
I would really like to have a class, and my thought on the class would be that they would get Runes as building blocks to their powers. It would be a versatile class (maybe too much so), able to combine runes during combat to build their powers on the spot. Add one rune to this other rune and you get this at-will power. Add a different second rune to the first and get a different at-will power. Add a third rune for an added effect (like pushing) that diminishes one of the previous effects (like damage).It would have to be a tightly controlled class, otherwise it would be too easy to abuse obviously. Any thoughts on either of the above ideas or the class idea?
Would using the runes expend them? or would you use the same runes over and over again in different combinations?
The other thought would be to make them non-expendable but make them implements as well...
If you made them implements how many runes can you hold at a time? Each power could have a req such as: you must be holding two "this rune" and one "that rune".
Also would powers become more powerful (to an extent) if say you had more runes of the required type?
Ex:
Fire Strike
You draw a symbol in the air and a nearby by enemy catches aflame.
At-Will Ranged 10
Attack: Stat vs. Defense
Hit: 1d8 fire damage
Special: If your wielding a fire rune, increase the damage by 1d8
or something to this effect.
On a side note I'm unsure as to whether this would be a controller or a striker, but I'm siding with controller with striker qualities personally.
Rune Blast
Ranged 5
Attack: Stat vs. Defense
Hit: 1d8 damage
Special:The damage this power deals corresponds to the rune type you are holding the most of.
Fire Rune: Add 1d8 to the damage.
Water Rune: and slide the target 1 square.
Earth Rune: and the target is slowed until the end of their next turn.
Air Rune: Range is 10 instead of 5.
Im thinking in this way you can only benefit from each rune effect at most once or twice. ie: 2 fire runes - 3d8 damage, 2 water runes - slide 2 squares, 2 earth runes - same as above, 2 air runes - 15 range
New Keyword: Rune
Rune: Powers with the rune keyword require a rune (or runes) to cast. A power with the rune keyword can benefit from multiple runes gaining the effect described with the power (if any). Depending on the number of runes you hold when you use the power, the benefit is stronger or weaker (or none at all). The number of runes you can benefit from for each rune type is equal to 1/2 your "stat" modifier.
This may or may not be clear but thats the overall power style i think your going for.
Making your preferred rune type a choice at creation seems very in-line with what the game is currently putting forth.
Bod, your idea makes a lot of sense actually, Dalor what do you think of it?
Second, Bod i put in the max runes thing into the keyword just so that you wouldn't have a PC with tons of runes because they cant use them all anyway (at most like 3-4 of each type and thats in like the 20s).
Third, would having a specific rune implement diminish the versatility you were going for Phantym?
CLASS TRAITS
Role: Controller.
Power Source: Arcane.
Key Abilities: Wisdom, Constitution, Intelligence
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee
Implements: Runes
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Healing Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Arcana. From the class skills list below,
choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Not yet determined
Class Features: Rune Implement Mastery
Those underlined are my ideas
Looks great to me. Dalor you've been awesome so far. You planning on helping me take this all the way up? I won't complain that's for sure, looks like you have a handle on how the classes work in this edition.
Ill help were i can. I can build class and such for this edition, i just either make them too powerful or too weak since im a bad balancer. :D
Edit: so how are we gona have the rune implement thing work?
I would really like to have a class, and my thought on the class would be that they would get Runes as building blocks to their powers. It would be a versatile class (maybe too much so), able to combine runes during combat to build their powers on the spot. Add one rune to this other rune and you get this at-will power. Add a different second rune to the first and get a different at-will power. Add a third rune for an added effect (like pushing) that diminishes one of the previous effects (like damage).It would have to be a tightly controlled class, otherwise it would be too easy to abuse obviously. Any thoughts on either of the above ideas or the class idea?
I had this EXACT same idea
. I tried to think of a way to do this without unbalancing versatility, but had no great ideas. Just now, I had a few thoughts: runes could be expendable, but you can prepare a certain number after a short rest, and a certain number after an extended rest. You could then maybe use 2 for an at will power, 3 for an encounter power and 4 for a daily (or some other numbers that make more sense ) with an effect on the at wills that the runes are not expended, or you can cast the at wills without runes, you just draw them in the air and/or they do less/can have a smaller number of effects. This kind of messes with the at will encounter daily system, blending the types somewhat, but there could be some runes you can only make during an extended rest, or can only use once per day (possibly some runes that could only be used once per encounter too). This could be hard to balance, but that's probably inevitable with a rune casting class unless you do something similar to the warlock's pacts. The implements could be more powerful permanent runes that provide a constant benefit with different types of powers. You could have to hold the runes in order to cast with them, and there could be some class feature encounter type runes that have a bonus and a drawback, that you can add to any power. Your choice of powers could be your choice of which types of runes and how many of them you can prepare. Anyway, just listing a bunch of ideas, I don't know how much of that is useful or makes sense, but I thought I'd add my thoughts. One other thing could be a ritual caster class feature (they seem like good candidates for this) with an ability to add runes to the ritual, adding effects or decreasing casting time/cost.
As for the Rune Implements, I'm thinking that we could do something similar to Warlock pacts like Paul suggested. Maybe certain powers will react in some special way if it falls under your specific Rune Mastery. In fact maybe we could mix it up a little? The implements would represent your overall specialty, and you would still have expendable runes that you would have to resupply to cast the spells (except At-Wills since we established that they are quick and dirty with the runes being traced into the air).
I was thinking along the lines of class specific feats too. This is where we could get the stiched and/or tattooed 'Runes' so to speak. Each feat would be a new rune that you have on your clothing, or tattooed, or carved on your staff, what have you, and it would represent your feat.
Thoughts?
Btw, sorry for the delayed response, couldn't get to a computer for a little while there, busy day!
Edit: so i know how the powers are gona look.
If we went with two, and kept the elemental aspect, I would think that the two main paths would be Earth/Fire and Air/Water. So we'd have a Mastery for damage and detrimental effects, and one based on forced movement at long range. There again, maybe we could make it so that players could mix and match between the four to make thier own build?
Otherwise we could do four builds and have an element tied to each build.
I'm thinking though that fire would give a +1 (+2,+3 etc) bonus to damage to any spell. Air could give a flat +5 to the range of any spell. Earth would give any enemy hit with a spell a -1 to movement (non-cumalative). Water could possibly push an opponent adjacent to the caster away 1 square if he hits with any spell.
Just some thoughts I'm throwing out there. Not sure how well balanced they are or aren't.
I'm thinking though that fire would give a +1 (+2,+3 etc) bonus to damage to any spell. Air could give a flat +5 to the range of any spell. Earth would give any enemy hit with a spell a -1 to movement (non-cumalative). Water could possibly push an opponent adjacent to the caster away 1 square if he hits with any spell.
You could have each spell have the rune keyword but be like rune(fire) or rune(earth) and if your specialized in fire you get +2 damage on rune(fire) spells instead of +1 and if you specialize earth you give -2 movement on rune(earth) spells instead of -1. (water push 2 instead of 1). I dont know how air would get better by being specialized in it.
Fire: Whenever you hit with a spell that deals damage, increase the damage the spell deal equal to 1/2 your "stat" modifier. If the spell has the keyword rune(fire) the extra damage is instead equal to your "stat" (or 1 (or 2) + 1/2 "stat" modifier).
Earth: When ever you hit with a spell that deals damage, decrease the targets speed by 1(or 2) until the start of your next turn. If the spell has the keyword rune(earth) the speed reduction is instead 2(or 3).
Water: Whenever you hit with a spell that deals damage, you can also slide (or push) the target 1 square. If the spell has the keyword rune(water) slide (or push) the target 2 squares instead of 1. If the spell already has a slide (or push) effect, increase the distance you slide (or push) the target by 1 (or 2 if the spell has the rune(water) keyword)
Air: The range of all ranged spells that you use is increased by 5. 2 possible ideas for the better version are put below:
(A) Spells with the keyword rune(air) have an increased range equal to 5 + "stat" modifier (or 1/2 of "stat") (B) (I dont know how id write out your idea sorry).
For the last one I was just thinking that we could make it a Daily Utility of sorts that you give a +1 to a weapon or armor (one piece per character, so you could give the fighter a +1 weapon or armor, not both), and that it would last through the first encounter after the application, at which point it would wear off, but you could only do it once per day per character. So obviously it would be something that people would save up for a big encounter. Obviously the bonus would go up as you got higher in level.
Just a thought so it could give the class the ability to 'etch' temporary runes onto other people's armor and weapons.
Ritual Casting feat by class that has it:
Cleric-You gain the Ritual Caster feat (page 200) as a bonus
feat, allowing you to use magical rituals (see Chapter
10). You possess a ritual book, and it contains two rituals
you have mastered: the Gentle Repose ritual and
one other 1st-level ritual of your choice.
Wizard-You gain the Ritual Caster feat (page 200) as a
bonus feat, allowing you to use magical rituals (see
Chapter 10).
Druid-You gain the Ritual Caster feat as a bonus feat, allowing
you to use magical rituals. You own a ritual book,
and it contains two rituals of your choice that you
have mastered: Animal Messenger (Player’s Handbook,
page 300) and another 1st-level ritual.
Once per day, you can use Animal Messenger
without expending components.
Invoker-You gain the Ritual Caster feat as a bonus feat, allowing
you to use magical rituals (see Chapter 10 of
the Player’s Handbook). You own a ritual book, and it
contains two rituals of your choice that you have mastered:
Hand of Fate and one 1st-level ritual.
Once per day, you can use Hand of Fate without
expending components.
feat, allowing you to use magical rituals (see Chapter
10). You possess a ritual book, and it contains two rituals
you have mastered: the Gentle Repose ritual and
one other 1st-level ritual of your choice.
Wizard-You gain the Ritual Caster feat (page 200) as a
bonus feat, allowing you to use magical rituals (see
Chapter 10).
Druid-You gain the Ritual Caster feat as a bonus feat, allowing
you to use magical rituals. You own a ritual book,
and it contains two rituals of your choice that you
have mastered: Animal Messenger (Player’s Handbook,
page 300) and another 1st-level ritual.
Once per day, you can use Animal Messenger
without expending components.
Invoker-You gain the Ritual Caster feat as a bonus feat, allowing
you to use magical rituals (see Chapter 10 of
the Player’s Handbook). You own a ritual book, and it
contains two rituals of your choice that you have mastered:
Hand of Fate and one 1st-level ritual.
Once per day, you can use Hand of Fate without
expending components.
Etch Rune looks good to me, I'm thinking it can be an untyped bonus (or it may lose effectiveness) but then I think it would get a +1 every 10 levels (+2 at lvl 11, +3 at 21) with +3 being the highest it'll get to so it's not too much.
Is there any other class features we are gona have or are we gona start on powers?
I want a range build for the warlord. Dex isn't a main stat but man... I really want to tell my archers to focus fire!
http://spiritsofeden.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/backrow-commander-warlord-bowlord/
Thought you might enjoy this.
Runic Base - Level 1
Wonderous item, 20 gp
5 lbs
The base for all runemage abilities, this iron bar provides a stable medium for the invocation of runes.
Property: Runes may be bought and inscribed in this bar. Certain powers require you to have a Runic Base with specific Runes inscribed. It takes 5 minutes to inscribe one rune.
An example power for this idea:
Runic Blaze
Your runes glow with an intensity such as fire, scorching the battlefield
Level 1 at will spell
Standard Action
Area Burst 2 within 10
Target: All creatures within burst
Prerequisite: You must be holding a Runic Base with one Fire Rune inscribed.
Attack: Int vs Ref
Hit: 1d8 + Int mod fire damage to each target. This Runic Base loses its charge. You may roll a d6 at the beginning of each of your turns. If the result is a 4, 5, or 6, the Runic Base recharges.
At 11th level, damage becomes 2d8+Int mod, and at 21st level, damage becomes 3d8 + Int mod.
Miss: Half damage, and this Runic Base loses it's charge. You may roll a d6 at the beginning of each of your turns. If the result is a 4, 5, or 6, the Runic Base recharges.
The idea behind this is that it has a much greater damage potential than most arcane at-will, but it has a disadvantage in that it must recharge before you can use it again. Other powers should follow this example, making it so that you can have more than one of the same encounter if you suffer the expense and weight. You should be able to recharge bases in the same way you inscribed them between combats. Encounter powers can recharge in 5-10 minutes, but recharging daily powers should take an hour, maybe 2, concidering the number of runes that would be in a typical daily power.
An example of a daily power:
Runic Torrent
The runes seem to distort as flood of water rushes forth, knocking enemies off their feet
Level 1 Daily Power
Standard Action
Prerequisite: You must be holding a Runic Base with two water runes and one air rune inscribed.
Range: Close Blast 3
Target: Each enemy in blast
Attack: Int +2 vs Ref
Hit:2d10 water damage, and this Runic Base Loses its charge.
Miss:Half Damage, and this Runic Base Loses its charge.
Effect: Target is knocked prone
Here's a couple feats in brief that I just thought of:
Runic Artisan: +1 to all attack rolls and damage using runes.
Runic Spellbook: You carry a spellbook containing combinations of runes. You may gain an additional At will, Encounter, Utility, and Daily power of a level you can already use. These may be changed as you get new powers, but you do not gain additional powers every level like the wizard. The powers gained may be used at the same time as your current powers, providing you have the correct runes.
Quick Inscriptions: It takes you half the normal time to inscribe and recharge your Runic Bases.
I know this is a very, very large post, but I personally think this would be the best way to do a rune mage. I think it would appease the people who say that wizards aren't the same sort of resource management as they were. Multiple powers could use the same Bases, giving an option of which one you want to use.
Anyway, yeah, this got a little out of hand. Oh well. I hope it was useful.
I think the main gripe is to prepare a bunch of runes like ammunition after taking your extended rest like preparing spells the old 3.5 Wizard.How about "temporarily" imbuing a rune to a certain element for an encounter, then if you feel like changing the element during a rest, you can do so. You can later take feats to allow you to access more elements or imbue multiple elements into one rune implement.
Heck, maybe expand it for all the damage types we have so far:
Acid, Cold, Fire, Force, Lightning, Necrotic, Poison, Psychic, Radiant, Thunder
Rune Graft: When you finish a short or extended rest, choose a damage type to be associated with your Rune Implement. The Rune Implement loses any damage type keywords it previously had and gains the new keyword. You can only attune one Rune Implement at a time.
Certain powers will create additional effects based on the Rune Implement's damage type. Also, certain Rune Implement magic item powers will be usable based on the appropriate damage type.
Rune Shape Runecaster Class Feature
The rune implement in your hand begins to flash in a spectrum of colors before settling down.
Encounter * Arcane, Implement
Minor Action * Personal
Change the keyword of a Rune Implement that you wield.
Rune Flash Runecaster Attack 1
Flavor text
At-Will * Arcane, Implement
Standard Action * Close Blast 3
Target: Each creature in blast.
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Wisdom modifier damage.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Cold Rune: The target is also pushed 1 square and is slowed until the end of your next turn.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Fire Rune: The target takes additional damage equal to the number of creatures adjacent to it.
21st level: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier damage.
Corruption Rune Runecaster Attack 1
Flavor text
Daily * Arcane, Implement
Standard Action * Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Target: Each creature in burst.
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d8 + Wisdom modifier damage. If the damage type was necrotic, the target is weakened (save ends).
Effect: The rune implement's keyword now becomes Necrotic. Until the end of the encounter, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier whenever you hit with an attack with the Necrotic keyword.
Runic Base - Level 1
Wonderous item, 20 gp
5 lbs
The base for all runemage abilities, this iron bar provides a stable medium for the invocation of runes.
Property: Runes may be bought and inscribed in this bar. Certain powers require you to have a Runic Base with specific Runes inscribed. It takes 5 minutes to inscribe one rune.
(at-will power)
The idea behind this is that it has a much greater damage potential than most arcane at-will, but it has a disadvantage in that it must recharge before you can use it again. Other powers should follow this example, making it so that you can have more than one of the same encounter if you suffer the expense and weight. You should be able to recharge bases in the same way you inscribed them between combats. Encounter powers can recharge in 5-10 minutes, but recharging daily powers should take an hour, maybe 2, concidering the number of runes that would be in a typical daily power.
For the runic base wouldn't saying a short rest to inscribe runes be better?
I like the idea about the runic base having to recharge (at least for the at-wills). Would encounter powers recharge in a short rest ("5-10 mins") and daily's in a extended rest ("1-2" hours)? If those times are true they mess up your "quick inscriptions" feat (except for recharge of at-will maybe. changes from 4,5,6 to 3,4,5,6?)
You said runes are bought then inscribed into the runic base. If thats true would the rune mage start with runes (how many of each idk) or would he have to buy them all?
How about "temporarily" imbuing a rune to a certain element for an encounter, then if you feel like changing the element during a rest, you can do so. You can later take feats to allow you to access more elements or imbue multiple elements into one rune implement.
Heck, maybe expand it for all the damage types we have so far:
Acid, Cold, Fire, Force, Lightning, Necrotic, Poison, Psychic, Radiant, Thunder
Rune Graft: When you finish a short or extended rest, choose a damage type to be associated with your Rune Implement. The Rune Implement loses any damage type keywords it previously had and gains the new keyword. You can only attune one Rune Implement at a time.
Certain powers will create additional effects based on the Rune Implement's damage type. Also, certain Rune Implement magic item powers will be usable based on the appropriate damage type.
Rune Shape Runecaster Class Feature
The rune implement in your hand begins to flash in a spectrum of colors before settling down.
Encounter * Arcane, Implement
Minor Action * Personal
Change the keyword of a Rune Implement that you wield.
This looks like a cool idea but it seems a bit complex (to me at least). Id like to implement both your idea syne and namagem's but idk how we would go about doing it.
Phantym, of the two systems syne and namagem gave, which do you like better and feel fits the style of class you want the rune mage to be? or would a combination of the two be more effective?
For the runic base wouldn't saying a short rest to inscribe runes be better?
Yes, that makes sense. In fact, that was the reason I made it five minutes.
I like the idea about the runic base having to recharge (at least for the at-wills). Would encounter powers recharge in a short rest ("5-10 mins") and daily's in a extended rest ("1-2" hours)? If those times are true they mess up your "quick inscriptions" feat (except for recharge of at-will maybe. changes from 4,5,6 to 3,4,5,6?)
Recharging encounters in a short rest and dailies in an extended rest makes more sense. The way it could work is that instead of halfing it, it could make at wills recharge on 3,4,5,6, like you said, and allow encounters to recharge on a minor action d10 roll of 10. For dailies, I think they should stay at an extended rest, because the possibility of recharging encounters is powerful enough.
You said runes are bought then inscribed into the runic base. If thats true would the rune mage start with runes (how many of each idk) or would he have to buy them all?
If you were to go with this, a rune mage should probably start with one of each, by default. Looking back over it, though, it does look like an unnecessary addition when you could simply say that the symbols are what have the power and not objects that are made.
Also, a side note, it looks like the Artificer preview class actually uses runes. You might want to look at it to make sure you aren't stepping on any toes.
As for the ideas, if there was some way we could implement both that would be cool. Just not sure how to. Of course I say that because I hate leaving good ideas on the cutting room floor so to speak, and both are well within the flavor of the class in my view.
Ekio - Donkeshon sir!
Cheers.
So what else is there to work on?
I think powers would be the next step, unless you can think of anything else?
Matthew, while your suggestions are good ideas, we already established the idea of making this a Controller with Striker qualities. If you are referring to the Artificer,then I have to say that I will never use that class, and it will never see use at my table. My group doesn't play Eberron at all (thus we won't buy the books for it), and the Rune Mage class was started because of my desire to have it built for my campaign world. If others can benefit and use the class we make here then all the better.
I think powers would be the next step, unless you can think of anything else?
So powers, are we gona use Syne's idea (you change the rune type/keyword of your powers during short/extended rests and type of rune/keyword determines bonuses) or Namagem's (You have a runic base and at-will have to recharge from there improved power. Feat improves recharging). Or have you come up with a way to combine the two? Once we have decided on are power type we can make then (hopefully easily).
Rune Flash Runecaster Attack 1
Flavor text
At-Will * Arcane, Implement
Standard Action * Close Blast 3
Target: Each creature in blast.
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Wisdom modifier damage.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Cold Rune: The target is also pushed 1 square and is slowed until the end of your next turn.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Fire Rune: The target takes additional damage equal to the number of creatures adjacent to it.
21st level: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier damage.
or will each at-will be based off a certain rune type and using the correct rune type with the at-will makes it more powerful? (fire rune with fire at-will gives power more damage etc.)
Controller with a minor in defender.
Flinging up dirt and rocks, and reshaping the battle field, with plenty of forced movement/slow/immobilize/knock downs. Not as long range as other controllers (more close blast/burst with a bit of melee), but tough enough to get into melee combat. Will probably have trouble with flying creatures, but shouldn't be completely useless.
Perhaps Con based with Wis and Str as secondary (High fort, low ref).
Low level powers might create sandstorms, creating difficult terrain.
Utilities might consist of fall to earth (against flying), make a surface easier to climb, burrowing, tremorsense, rock armour (THP/AC), instant shelter.
High level powers might be walls, earthquakes, instant pit traps, "bigbie" like hands.
Perhaps the make passage ritual 1/day.
Skills: Endurance, Athletics, Dungeonering ...
Other ideas
I like the At-Wills having the changing rune type as you had outlined there.
Phanty, Can you quote which one you mean pls.
Rune Flash Runecaster Attack 1
Flavor text
At-Will * Arcane, Implement
Standard Action * Close Blast 3
Target: Each creature in blast.
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Wisdom modifier damage.
Cold Rune: The target is also pushed 1 square and is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Fire Rune: The target takes additional damage equal to the number of creatures adjacent to it.
21st level: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier damage.
Like this one, that has different runes applying different effects. Maybe one power that is single target, one power that is an aoe, and one power that buffs the caster somehow? And each one is affected by the different runes that are used (like the above power). Just some ideas for the At-Wills.
The wording might be off, thoughAstral Torch Runecaster Attack 1
Flavor text
At-Will * Arcane, Implement
Standard Action * Ranged 15
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier damage.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Fire Rune: The target takes a -2 penalty to melee attacks until the end of your next turn.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Radiant Rune: The target takes a -2 penalty to ranged attacks until the end of your next turn.
21st level: 2d8 + Charisma modifier damage.
Volatile Ice Runecaster Attack 1
Flavor text
At-Will * Arcane, Implement
Standard Action * Area burst 1 within 10
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Wisdom modifier damage.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Acid Rune: The target takes a -2 penalty to saving throws until the end of your next turn.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Cold Rune: During its next turn, the target treats the first square it enters as difficult terrain.
21st level: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier damage.
Mental Blackout Runecaster Attack 1
Flavor text
At-Will * Arcane, Implement
Standard Action * Area burst 1 within 10
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Wisdom modifier damage.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Necrotic Rune: The burst is lightly obscured until the end of your next turn.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Psychic Rune: Creatures with concealment are invisible to the target until the end of your next turn.
21st level: 2d6 + Wisdom modifier damage.
Roar of the Restless Sky Runecaster Attack 1
Flavor text
At-Will * Arcane, Implement
Standard Action * Close blast 3
Target: Each creature in blast
Attack: Constitution vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Constitution modifier damage.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Lightning Rune: Enemies adjacent to the target take damage equal to your Dexterity modifier.
[INDENT][/INDENT]Thunder Rune: The target is pushed 1 square, and you shift 1 square closer to the target.
21st level: 2d6 + Constitution modifier damage.
Also thanks for the powers Syne! :D
Primary Rune - Use one on every spell
Air: Increase Range (or increase AoE size. So if spell is a Close Burst 3, it becomes a Close Burst 4?)
Earth: Add Status Effect (status depends on spell)
Fire: Increase Damage (or possibly add Ongoing Damage?)
Water: Add Push Effect (possibly forcing enemies to go Prone at later levels?)
Secondary Runes - Use one on any spell that causes damage
Air: Thunder Damage
Earth: Lightning Damage
Fire: Fire Damage
Water: Cold Damage
Decay: Necrotic Damage
Divine: Radiant Damage
Destruction: Acid Damage
This would keep things simple and allow the Primary Runes to still rule the effects of the powers overall, while the Secondary can just determine damage types.
Again these are just some random thoughts.
Edit: mellored, if your still watching this thread, do you have any example powers written up or any class features?
Edit: mellored, if your still watching this thread, do you have any example powers written up or any class features?
Here's some ideas
Feature:
Implements: Picks and hammers.
Armour: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chain
Armour Of Earth: You can add your Wis mod to AC instead of your Dex or Int when wearing light armour.
Stone Casting: Reduce the damage from any OA you take when using a ranged power by your wis mod, at lvl 11 this increases to double your wis mod, at lvl 21 it's tipple. This stacks with any other damage reduction.
At-Wills
Sudden Spikes
[i]Spikes sprout out of the ground, stabbing your enemies feet[i]
Area 1 in Range 5
Con vs Ref
Hit: 1d6+Con damage, and the target is slowed until the end of his next turn.
Effect: The area is difficult terrain until the end of your next turn.
Sand Blast
Dust swirls past you and stings and blinding the eyes of the enemy
Close Blast 3
Each enemy in blast, Con vs Fort
Hit: 1d4+Con damage, and allies have concealment against the target.
Encounters
Churn the earth
With a slam, the ground around you begins to shake
Close burst
Each enemy in blast, Con vs Fort
Hit: 2d4+Con, and the target is prone
Effect: the area is difficult terrain until the end of your next turn
Special: The size of the burst is equal to your Str mod.
Utility
Sound of the ground
Daily Personal
You gain tremorsense equal to your Wis Mod until the end of the encounter.
Armour Of Earth: ???? some how get defenses in light armour
How about:
Armor of Earth: while you are wearing light armor or no armor and are on solid ground (this includes vehicles) (maybe while in (or on) water too?), you get a +2 (or +3 idk since ur prof with leather armor) power bonus to AC.
Change that to how you like (or dont use it at all :D ) and quote it and bold what you changed inside the quote (thats prolly easiest way)
Any new dreams or ideas that need help?If it's not too much to ask, a little assistance on my Blade Dancer class. The main concept is that School of agility dancers should be able to move around the battlefield without worry (shifting and sliding, but up close and personal attacks), while School of Charm should be able to charm, beguile, and manipulate the enemy, while still getting a decent amount of movement in. I guess my concept is more of a stiker/controller than /leader.
Do you want assistance on it in this forum or the linked forum?
Actually, I recently had a brainwave that wouldfit my concept a bit more. Arcane Striker, uses a Rapier as an implement, uses the arcane abilities to put the extra spring in his step, and to charm his foes.
Either way, I think the class will need more than the one class feature it has already. Also have you got any more at-wills written up?
I'll go ahead and put it here and delete it if you would like the other option.
I'd like to drop a racial idea onto this. I am thinking about creating a water type campaign world (a la Water World with maybe slightly more land). One of the races I want to make is the "Hvalr".
I've got the fluff made up no problem. They are, in short, humanoid ceteceans (think whale), who have evolved or adapted to live on the surface. I imagine them to be hardy and wise, with a very icelandic-style culture (like in the time of the great icelandic sagas).
One of the features of this race is that they have a large horn (think narwhale) on their heads, but as a rite of manhood, they must break this horn off of their head and shape it into a harpoon with a wooden shaft. This harpoon is very important to Hvalrian culture, and those who lose or break their harpoon are dubbed Hvarlrekans.
Quick note: Hvalr is whale in icelandic, Hvalrekan is 'beached whale'.
Their ships are large, but very slim, and incorporate a lot of metals so that they sit low in the water. They are propelled by triangular sails and large rowing paddles. I see them living along cold island chains, whaling and fishing in small coastal villages and fjords.
Other attributes would include good lung capacity and swimming capabilities, resistance to cold, that sort of thing.
Now, I can immediately understand problems with translating this race into 4e: one is the harpoon, as I haven't seen any other race with a racial 'item', not even mentioning that only the males would possess one. This is only a rough draft, though, so if anyone has any ideas that can replace these have at it.
Thanks in advance for anyone who can help me create crunch for my fluff. If you would prefer me to just delete this and create a separate thread lemme know. (Also, if you think the fluff isn't very good, let me know that too. I could definitely flesh them out more. Fluff ideas are very welcome!) :D
Other attributes would include good lung capacity and swimming capabilities, resistance to cold, that sort of thing.
Now, I can immediately understand problems with translating this race into 4e: one is the harpoon, as I haven't seen any other race with a racial 'item', not even mentioning that only the males would possess one.
For swimming capabilities, that could be shown by +2 Athletics. Good lungs can either be shown by +2 endurance or a racial feature of some kind. cold resistance is easily done 5+1/2 level.
I believe the eladrin, elf and dwarf have a racial "item" (unless you mean racial "item" in a different way) since all elves can use bows and all dwarves can use some hammers (and eladrin is longsword).
Are you going to split the race by gender? Doing so will only gives more work for yourself (and us :D ).
Hope the above helps you
Does this new concept dramatically change what you have posted in the linked thread?
A little. It changes the power source, and the idea behind how the class would work.
Either way, I think the class will need more than the one class feature it has already. Also have you got any more at-wills written up?
Not yet. I'd need to rewrite the class for the new power source.
For other class features, perhaps a new dance keyword for powers that lets standard action powers be used as a move action at a penalty.
You have any ideas?
For other class features, perhaps a new dance keyword for powers that lets standard action powers be used as a move action at a penalty.
You have any ideas?
What kind of penalty would you take? im guessing penalty to attack or damage.
Idea would be since its focused on rapier wielding try to do something like rogue weapon tactics (possibles: up 1 die size (1d10 damage instead of 1d8) or +1 to hit (may be a bit overpowered) or something else that wants you to wield a rapier over another weapon.
Anything new?For those who remember 3.0 psionics:
- There was a sub-class for each stat (there was a psion who casts on STR, on who casts on DEX )
This was broken in the d20 ruleset (seriously, a caster on CON? :D ) but its much more balanced in 4rd edition (we already have inferlock, wizard,cleric,sorcerer,...). - Unlike normal spellcasting, psionic had a little twist (it used a pool of points instead of spellslots, and some feats instead of spells (mage armor was a feat) )
So, what I am looking for is a mechanism for the 6 original psion types (the STR based one a shapechanger, the CHA based one is a telepath...).
- They don't need to be the same (in fact I'dd make the STR based shapechanger a defender, while the telepath a controller, ...)
- The mechanism needs to have something unique (I'dd like the feeling that psionics was something different then spellcasting) but on the other hand all the 6 psions need the same twist (they are all psions). oh, and it needs to be balanced ...
How about:
Armor of Earth: while you are wearing light armor or no armor and are on solid ground (this includes vehicles) (maybe while in (or on) water too?), you get a +2 (or +3 idk since ur prof with leather armor) power bonus to AC.
Change that to how you like (or dont use it at all :D ) and quote it and bold what you changed inside the quote (thats prolly easiest way)
I think "you can use your Wis mod for AC instead of your Dex or Int mod while in light armour." is better. I think i'll also add chain to the proficiencies list.
Qube is this uses all traits psionic gona be one whole class? Looks like a hard job ahead :D
Thought I'd help keep this topic on the front page. It really needs a sticky imho.
Qube is this uses all traits psionic gona be one whole class? Looks like a hard job ahead :D
no, I was thinking 6 different classes, but all with a symelar mechanics
For example, if the 'unique mechanism' would be once per turn as minor action (not very unique, as warlorck, ranger, leaders (their word), ... work like that)
- the psion who controlls time/space could slow a target
- a psion telekinetist could create difficult terrain around a target (a sand storm or something ...)
- a psion telepath could grant -2 on defenses
- ...
edit: maybe an idea: a dual mechanism:
(1) class features and powers create a status
(2) powers have: if the target was subjected to that status -> deal (more) damage.
for example:
- sand storm: a psion telekinetist creates difficult terrain around a target. this is a burst 1 power that creates a telekinetic zone.
- telekinetic projectile con vs refl. 1d10+con damage. if the target was already in a telekinetic zone, this power deals an aditional 1d6 damage per tier
Show
type of the psionics (their main stat / name of the psion )
Clairsentience ( Wisdom / Seer )
Clairsentience powers enable the manifester to learn secrets long forgotten, to glimpse the immediate future and predict the far future, to find hidden things, and to generally know what is normally unknowable. Many Clairsentience powers have cone-shaped areas. These move with the manifester and extend in the direction he or she looks. The cone defines the area that the manifester can sweep each round. If the manifester studies the same area for multiple rounds, he or she can often gain addition
Metacreativity ( Intelligence / Shaper )
Metacreativity powers create objects, creatures, or some form of matter. Creatures the manifester creates usually, but not always, obeys his or her commands.
A creature or object brought into being cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the power’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.
The power draws raw ectoplasm from the Astral Plane to create an object or creature in the place the psionic character designates (subject to the limits noted above). Objects created in this fashion are generally as solid and durable as a normal object, despite their originally diaphanous substance. If the power has a duration other than instantaneous, psionic energy holds the creation together, and when the power ends or is negated, the created creature or object vanishes without a trace. Some metacreative powers have instantaneous durations. In these cases, the created object or creature is merely assembled through psionics. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on psionics for its existence.
Psychokinesis (Constitution / Savant)
Psychokinesis powers manipulate energy or tap the power of the mind to produce a desired end. Many of these powers produce interesting visual effects above and beyond the standard secondary display, such as moving, melting, transforming, or blasting a target. Psychokinesis powers can deal large amounts of damage.
Psychometabolism (Strength / Egoist)
Psychometabolic powers change the physical properties of the psionic character.
Psychoportation (Dexterity / Nomad)
Psychoportation powers move the manifester, an object, or another creature through space and time.
Telepathy (Charisma / Telepath)
Telepathy powers can spy on and affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior.
Most telepathic powers are mind-affecting. Two types of powers grant the manifester influence over a subject creature:
Charm: The power changes the way the subject views the manifester, typically making the subject see him or her as a good friend.
Compulsion: The power forces the subject to act in some manner or changes the way his or her mind works. Some powers determine the subject’s actions (or the effects on the subject), some allow the manifester to determine the subject’s actions when the manifester manifests them, and others give the manifester ongoing control over the subject.
Clairsentience ( Wisdom / Seer )
Clairsentience powers enable the manifester to learn secrets long forgotten, to glimpse the immediate future and predict the far future, to find hidden things, and to generally know what is normally unknowable. Many Clairsentience powers have cone-shaped areas. These move with the manifester and extend in the direction he or she looks. The cone defines the area that the manifester can sweep each round. If the manifester studies the same area for multiple rounds, he or she can often gain addition
Metacreativity ( Intelligence / Shaper )
Metacreativity powers create objects, creatures, or some form of matter. Creatures the manifester creates usually, but not always, obeys his or her commands.
A creature or object brought into being cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the power’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.
The power draws raw ectoplasm from the Astral Plane to create an object or creature in the place the psionic character designates (subject to the limits noted above). Objects created in this fashion are generally as solid and durable as a normal object, despite their originally diaphanous substance. If the power has a duration other than instantaneous, psionic energy holds the creation together, and when the power ends or is negated, the created creature or object vanishes without a trace. Some metacreative powers have instantaneous durations. In these cases, the created object or creature is merely assembled through psionics. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on psionics for its existence.
Psychokinesis (Constitution / Savant)
Psychokinesis powers manipulate energy or tap the power of the mind to produce a desired end. Many of these powers produce interesting visual effects above and beyond the standard secondary display, such as moving, melting, transforming, or blasting a target. Psychokinesis powers can deal large amounts of damage.
Psychometabolism (Strength / Egoist)
Psychometabolic powers change the physical properties of the psionic character.
Psychoportation (Dexterity / Nomad)
Psychoportation powers move the manifester, an object, or another creature through space and time.
Telepathy (Charisma / Telepath)
Telepathy powers can spy on and affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior.
Most telepathic powers are mind-affecting. Two types of powers grant the manifester influence over a subject creature:
Charm: The power changes the way the subject views the manifester, typically making the subject see him or her as a good friend.
Compulsion: The power forces the subject to act in some manner or changes the way his or her mind works. Some powers determine the subject’s actions (or the effects on the subject), some allow the manifester to determine the subject’s actions when the manifester manifests them, and others give the manifester ongoing control over the subject.
looks good mellored. Got anything new or need help with balancing anything?
Qube is this uses all traits psionic gona be one whole class? Looks like a hard job ahead :D
Nothing yet, I don't have much time to fill out a whole class. I'd certainly be open to suggestions.
Each psion has 3 power point. at the end of the encounter the pool is reset to 3. as a minor action the psion can add 1 to the pool.
- psions have something lower (about 3): attack, damage,...
- when they make an attack roll they burn any power point to roll that many d6, and they add the highest number.
I was thinking
- attack roll for the shapechanging Egoist defender (just like fighters get +1 attack
- damage for the savant striker
- range for the Nomad, master of space/time
- saves vs seer
- suggestions for shaper and telepath ?
A friend of said he missed the 'nova' effect wizards could have ...