I Want to Run an Evil Campaign... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

I Want to Run an Evil Campaign...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
krazed
Jul 12, 2010 23:09:46 So I want to run an evil campaign, but I've no idea where to start. I've considered making the heroes orcs/goblins in a horde of orcs/goblins bent on world domination, but the two problems with that are, a) I don't know how to make them break away into their own adventuring group and b) my players would be less than enthusiastic about all being orcs/goblins. I also thought of using the normal player races but just having them be evil, and rising to power over the world. Thing is, my players kind of want to do a monster-oriented evil campaign to take a break from the normal goody-two-shoes men/elves/dwarves. I guess the problem is that in good campaigns, there's a wide array of races to choose from because they're all civilized and get along. However, I just can't see an orc, a minotaur, an evil human sorcerer, a goblin, and a kobold (those are just examples) all adventuring together. Evil monsters usually seem to a) stick with their own kind, or b) turn other kinds into minions. Obviously, I need some help.
#2
bronski113
Jul 13, 2010 3:33:16 As for them breaking away to form their own adventuring group you could make them be the henchmen of a more powerful npc. They could be sent on missions by their leader. If you are planning on having them essentially "be their own boss" they could eventually take out their leader.

This could also solve the problem of having different races working together. The evil leader could have brought together the various groups of monsters to lead some type of evil campaign against the goody goodies. Then the leader could have requested the best of the best from each group to do things that he can't trust to some of the normal underlings.

#3
mehukatti
Jul 13, 2010 7:06:36
Check out the Burning Wheel RPG Orc Life Paths. The Character builder book has some cool ideas, and the revised version of the life paths is even better. Orcs have never been the same for me after reading those.

Cheers
#4
krazed
Jul 13, 2010 13:24:53 Thanks for your ideas, guys. I had the idea to make them all part of separate tribes, a gnoll tribe, a goblin-bugbear tribe, a hobgoblin army, and orc tribe, and a minotaur...whatever you call a group of minotaurs. The story would be that the humans, elves, dwarves, and other civilized races were determined to rid the land of monsters and filth like them once and for all, and they wiped out most of the monsters in the area. The players would be the only survivors from their respective tribes/armies, and they would find each other and be forced to work together to fight back. Along the way they would find other survivors and start building an army and would wage war. Kind of an evil dominion type thing. I know my players and they'll have a lot of fun with it.
#5
jetshield
Jul 13, 2010 13:27:39 Why do people assume that every orc fits the typical orcish steriotype? Every intelligent race is made up of individuals with their own thoughts, feelings, goals, and opinions. There's no reason to believe that there can't or shouldn't be a group exactly like the one you describe somewhere in the world. If an evil individual feels that it is in their own best interest to team up with a giant spellcasting dung beetle, you can bet that's what they'll do.

edit: the campaign you describe, in my mind, paints the orcs/goblins/minotaurs/whatever as the good guys fighting back against oppression and genocide by the evil humans. But that's just me.
#6
concretebuddha
Jul 13, 2010 15:06:25 I ran a Sabbat game (the really evil vampires) in White Wolf for a while, and I have two suggestions to make your experience run a lot smoother.

1) Handwave some reason why the party can't turn on each other. PCs attacking each other in any way, either physically or verbally, or stealing from each other, is a great way to make the party implode. So either make the party all from the same organization and they've taken an oath of honor (that only applies to their party), or some sort of mystical connection, or whatever, but you have to iron fist some reason why a bunch of evil people get along. (Think biker gangs, Nazis, death cults, etc... that have a code of honor among themselves that doesn't apply to everyone else.)

2) Evil campaigns are proactive, as compared to good campaigns which tend to be reactive. In a typical game, the bad guys have already taken over a village/dungeon/mine or are about to commit some nefarious deed, and it's up to the good guys to react to whatever the bad guys are doing. You plan what the bad guys already did before game, and the good guys go wherever the bad guys are.

OTOH, in an evil campaign, the players can (and often must) decide to do random evil things, and YOU have to react to them.

What this means is that your players need to get in the mindset of initiating adventures, and you as a DM need to think on your feet more than a typical DM would have to. Your evil warlord might throw a curve ball at you and say, "Hey, we are going to take over X village and sacrifice their virgins to the God Of Strife." And you can either say, "No, I don't have that adventure planned. You have to go clear out the dungeon filled with good guys that I spent all week on," or you can wing it, and say, "Sure, you invade the village of Treebark and this is what happens next..."

Or worse then you having to improvise, is when your players are used to a typical dnd session where players do no work, and the DM is expected to do everything, and they have zero ideas of what to do and they look at you expecting you to hold their hands and tell them where to go. That's when you have to slap them and say, "You are in charge. Go figure out who or what to rob, plunder, invade, or dominate."

#7
AdmiralRanger
Jul 14, 2010 5:25:34 I am also running a evil campain and I have some opinions on this. First why not relocate the dungeon of good creatures to the village? Also your plot does make the pc's seem like the good guys fighting against genocide. The final thing is what about when the pc's start wanting to conqure, blow up or grafiti the whole setting. Will you allow them or keep thinking of Deux es Machinata or however you are meant to spell it to stop them? Also be ware if you spend your time killing other evil creatures for money or rescue other evil creatures or help save the world from a greater evil to much you be aswell play a good group. I have read plenty of books and played plenty of games that fall into this trap and it really annoys me. (one or two good adventures are fine though)
#8
mehukatti
Jul 14, 2010 6:20:46
jetshield:

My view is that the whole point is that the fantasy races are all very stereotypical. That's their function. It makes the story telling more compact. Instead of saying 'short, bearded, stubborn, greedy, axe wielding guy', we can just say 'dwarf'. If all the races had a lot of all sorts of people, we could as well have only humans.

Cheers
#9
Khaelieth
Jul 14, 2010 8:53:24
They don't need to neccessarily kill good guys; why can't they butcher the neighbouring orc tribe, **** their horses and ride away on their women?
#10
silverdragonn
Jul 14, 2010 10:16:24 You could always refluff the PHB races to reflect more stereotypical "evil" races, or create something new. It just sounds like the PCs want to play monsters. So refluff a Goliath into an Ogre, a Half-Orc as an Orc, etc etc. If there's some that don't mind playing something humanoid, throw in the Wood Elf and Halfling Dark Sun versions.

But the thing to remember is: a) Evil isn't determined by race. b) like a "good" or "neutral" team, the group has to find a way to be working together. I always highly suggest you get the players to figure that out because if they thought of it, it's much easier to keep it that way than not.

I personally hate the evil campaigns where the PCs are under the servitude of an evil and powerful NPC. And, Evil is a matter of perspective. A group of adventurers trying to keep a step ahead of a law-enforcement body that dislikes them, struggling to gain treasures against other beasties that want it, and over-throwing the ruling body of the land can work for both good and evil parties. It's just a matter of the alignment of the enemies; and typically, "evil" creatures can also dislike and attack other evil creatures.

Ultimately, find out what the goals of the players are and what they want to accomplish in this game. If they just want to spend time pillaging and raping, then build a campaign around that. If they want to be crafty evil and take over the kingdom, same thing. If they want to be servants of Orcus and bring him into the world, etc, etc.
#11
AdmiralRanger
Jul 15, 2010 1:39:00

They don't need to neccessarily kill good guys; why can't they butcher the neighbouring orc tribe, **** their horses and ride away on their women?

I think that they be aswell just be good adventurers if all their games are about fighting other shades of evil. As I said above avoid this. It ruins the H.I.V.E books the MMORPG City Of Villians and Artimus Fowl books.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 krazed Jul 12, 2010 23:09:46	So I want to run an evil campaign, but I've no idea where to start. I've considered making the heroes orcs/goblins in a horde of orcs/goblins bent on world domination, but the two problems with that are, a) I don't know how to make them break away into their own adventuring group and b) my players would be less than enthusiastic about all being orcs/goblins. I also thought of using the normal player races but just having them be evil, and rising to power over the world. Thing is, my players kind of want to do a monster-oriented evil campaign to take a break from the normal goody-two-shoes men/elves/dwarves. I guess the problem is that in good campaigns, there's a wide array of races to choose from because they're all civilized and get along. However, I just can't see an orc, a minotaur, an evil human sorcerer, a goblin, and a kobold (those are just examples) all adventuring together. Evil monsters usually seem to a) stick with their own kind, or b) turn other kinds into minions. Obviously, I need some help.
#2 bronski113 Jul 13, 2010 3:33:16	As for them breaking away to form their own adventuring group you could make them be the henchmen of a more powerful npc. They could be sent on missions by their leader. If you are planning on having them essentially "be their own boss" they could eventually take out their leader. This could also solve the problem of having different races working together. The evil leader could have brought together the various groups of monsters to lead some type of evil campaign against the goody goodies. Then the leader could have requested the best of the best from each group to do things that he can't trust to some of the normal underlings.
#3 mehukatti Jul 13, 2010 7:06:36	Check out the Burning Wheel RPG Orc Life Paths. The Character builder book has some cool ideas, and the revised version of the life paths is even better. Orcs have never been the same for me after reading those. Cheers
#4 krazed Jul 13, 2010 13:24:53	Thanks for your ideas, guys. I had the idea to make them all part of separate tribes, a gnoll tribe, a goblin-bugbear tribe, a hobgoblin army, and orc tribe, and a minotaur...whatever you call a group of minotaurs. The story would be that the humans, elves, dwarves, and other civilized races were determined to rid the land of monsters and filth like them once and for all, and they wiped out most of the monsters in the area. The players would be the only survivors from their respective tribes/armies, and they would find each other and be forced to work together to fight back. Along the way they would find other survivors and start building an army and would wage war. Kind of an evil dominion type thing. I know my players and they'll have a lot of fun with it.
#5 jetshield Jul 13, 2010 13:27:39	Why do people assume that every orc fits the typical orcish steriotype? Every intelligent race is made up of individuals with their own thoughts, feelings, goals, and opinions. There's no reason to believe that there can't or shouldn't be a group exactly like the one you describe somewhere in the world. If an evil individual feels that it is in their own best interest to team up with a giant spellcasting dung beetle, you can bet that's what they'll do. edit: the campaign you describe, in my mind, paints the orcs/goblins/minotaurs/whatever as the good guys fighting back against oppression and genocide by the evil humans. But that's just me.
#6 concretebuddha Jul 13, 2010 15:06:25	I ran a Sabbat game (the really evil vampires) in White Wolf for a while, and I have two suggestions to make your experience run a lot smoother. 1) Handwave some reason why the party can't turn on each other. PCs attacking each other in any way, either physically or verbally, or stealing from each other, is a great way to make the party implode. So either make the party all from the same organization and they've taken an oath of honor (that only applies to their party), or some sort of mystical connection, or whatever, but you have to iron fist some reason why a bunch of evil people get along. (Think biker gangs, Nazis, death cults, etc... that have a code of honor among themselves that doesn't apply to everyone else.) 2) Evil campaigns are proactive, as compared to good campaigns which tend to be reactive. In a typical game, the bad guys have already taken over a village/dungeon/mine or are about to commit some nefarious deed, and it's up to the good guys to react to whatever the bad guys are doing. You plan what the bad guys already did before game, and the good guys go wherever the bad guys are. OTOH, in an evil campaign, the players can (and often must) decide to do random evil things, and YOU have to react to them. What this means is that your players need to get in the mindset of initiating adventures, and you as a DM need to think on your feet more than a typical DM would have to. Your evil warlord might throw a curve ball at you and say, "Hey, we are going to take over X village and sacrifice their virgins to the God Of Strife." And you can either say, "No, I don't have that adventure planned. You have to go clear out the dungeon filled with good guys that I spent all week on," or you can wing it, and say, "Sure, you invade the village of Treebark and this is what happens next..." Or worse then you having to improvise, is when your players are used to a typical dnd session where players do no work, and the DM is expected to do everything, and they have zero ideas of what to do and they look at you expecting you to hold their hands and tell them where to go. That's when you have to slap them and say, "You are in charge. Go figure out who or what to rob, plunder, invade, or dominate."
#7 AdmiralRanger Jul 14, 2010 5:25:34	I am also running a evil campain and I have some opinions on this. First why not relocate the dungeon of good creatures to the village? Also your plot does make the pc's seem like the good guys fighting against genocide. The final thing is what about when the pc's start wanting to conqure, blow up or grafiti the whole setting. Will you allow them or keep thinking of Deux es Machinata or however you are meant to spell it to stop them? Also be ware if you spend your time killing other evil creatures for money or rescue other evil creatures or help save the world from a greater evil to much you be aswell play a good group. I have read plenty of books and played plenty of games that fall into this trap and it really annoys me. (one or two good adventures are fine though)
#8 mehukatti Jul 14, 2010 6:20:46	jetshield: My view is that the whole point is that the fantasy races are all very stereotypical. That's their function. It makes the story telling more compact. Instead of saying 'short, bearded, stubborn, greedy, axe wielding guy', we can just say 'dwarf'. If all the races had a lot of all sorts of people, we could as well have only humans. Cheers
#9 Khaelieth Jul 14, 2010 8:53:24	They don't need to neccessarily kill good guys; why can't they butcher the neighbouring orc tribe, **** their horses and ride away on their women?
#10 silverdragonn Jul 14, 2010 10:16:24	You could always refluff the PHB races to reflect more stereotypical "evil" races, or create something new. It just sounds like the PCs want to play monsters. So refluff a Goliath into an Ogre, a Half-Orc as an Orc, etc etc. If there's some that don't mind playing something humanoid, throw in the Wood Elf and Halfling Dark Sun versions. But the thing to remember is: a) Evil isn't determined by race. b) like a "good" or "neutral" team, the group has to find a way to be working together. I always highly suggest you get the players to figure that out because if they thought of it, it's much easier to keep it that way than not. I personally hate the evil campaigns where the PCs are under the servitude of an evil and powerful NPC. And, Evil is a matter of perspective. A group of adventurers trying to keep a step ahead of a law-enforcement body that dislikes them, struggling to gain treasures against other beasties that want it, and over-throwing the ruling body of the land can work for both good and evil parties. It's just a matter of the alignment of the enemies; and typically, "evil" creatures can also dislike and attack other evil creatures. Ultimately, find out what the goals of the players are and what they want to accomplish in this game. If they just want to spend time pillaging and raping, then build a campaign around that. If they want to be crafty evil and take over the kingdom, same thing. If they want to be servants of Orcus and bring him into the world, etc, etc.
#11 AdmiralRanger Jul 15, 2010 1:39:00	They don't need to neccessarily kill good guys; why can't they butcher the neighbouring orc tribe, **** their horses and ride away on their women? I think that they be aswell just be good adventurers if all their games are about fighting other shades of evil. As I said above avoid this. It ruins the H.I.V.E books the MMORPG City Of Villians and Artimus Fowl books.