I was thinking - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

I was thinking

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
csotnalucard
Jan 05, 2009 22:27:20 Hello again.

I was reading about 3.5 cleric domains and about how alignment doesn't matter and i was thinking of making domains for alignments. I was mainly thinking feat based. This would allow clerics more feats (something I've heard there in dire need of) and allow more difference in clerics (something I've heard a lot of people complain about) because it's completely optional. I was hoping to keep this apart from channel divinity but keep it available for all divine classes.

Now before you say it i know this would limit clerics to alignments or the cleric would lose powers if he changed alignments somehow yes i realize this and am still thinking of ways to solve that.

What I'm posting this for is (using the 4ed alignment of LG, G, U, E, CE) power ideas things that would be fun but not worth more then a feat. And if you have suggestions as to how to solve the alignment change problem by all means tell me. The later would be much more appreciated.

Once again any comments are appreciated and i thank you for them. I will obviously post the way i did this later when its done Thanks again.
#2
Undrhil
Jan 05, 2009 23:35:22 Clerics are already limited in their alignment: they have to be the same alignment as their deity (or they can be unaligned, I suppose.)

Clerics actually have more feats than any other class, thanks to the fact that each deity has it's own Channel Divinty feat.

I don't know if Clerics lose powers if they change alignment in 4e. I haven't really read up on it. But I can't see how it would matter if you made alignment be a prerequisite for a feat. I haven't seen any mechanic in place to make you retrain a feat if you are no longer qualified for it...
#3
vebrandsson
Jan 06, 2009 18:59:11
I don't know if Clerics lose powers if they change alignment in 4e.

Looks like someone else hasn't noticed it. You cannot change your alignment in 4e, the one you pick at lvl 1 is the one you have to stick with your entire adventuring career. So worrying about no longer being qualified is not an issue. Also there is a system for retraining feats if you loose your qualification for them. Read the Purify Spellscarred ritual in the FRPG (p144), it says "A character who has gained the Student of the Spellplague feat, or any other feats that require a creature to be spellscarred, loses those feats and can choose others to replace them"
#4
tequila_sunrise
Jan 06, 2009 19:46:17
Now before you say it i know this would limit clerics to alignments or the cleric would lose powers if he changed alignments somehow yes i realize this and am still thinking of ways to solve that.

If a cleric or paladin loses the benefit of his feat due to an alignment change, he could always just retrain it next level. I think it'd nicely simulate "finding a new faith" experience.

Clerics are already limited in their alignment: they have to be the same alignment as their deity (or they can be unaligned, I suppose.)

But there are no mechanical penalties for changing alignment, so the cleric/paladin alignment restrictions are effectively meaningless. Unless of course, you play with house rules.

Looks like someone else hasn't noticed it. You cannot change your alignment in 4e, the one you pick at lvl 1 is the one you have to stick with your entire adventuring career.

Where exactly does it say that?

TS
#5
Einlanzer
Jan 06, 2009 21:30:50 I dont' recall it every saying that anywhere, that would make no sense at all. Regardless, alignment has virtually no mechanical effects in 4e so you could really rule it however you wanted to.
#6
vebrandsson
Jan 07, 2009 10:17:24
I dont' recall it every saying that anywhere, that would make no sense at all. Regardless, alignment has virtually no mechanical effects in 4e so you could really rule it however you wanted to.

Of course it makes no sense, along with half of 4e. If you failed to notice nothing anywhere in the PHB or DMG mentions changing alignment or dealing with a change in alignment. Unlike previous editions where things are flexible unless it says you can't change them, in 4e if you haven't noticed things can only be changed when it says they can. Look through the core books, you'll see that all over, the idea that you can't do things unless you're told you can. Its half my issue with 4e
#7
Einlanzer
Jan 07, 2009 11:11:02
Of course it makes no sense, along with half of 4e. If you failed to notice nothing anywhere in the PHB or DMG mentions changing alignment or dealing with a change in alignment. Unlike previous editions where things are flexible unless it says you can't change them, in 4e if you haven't noticed things can only be changed when it says they can. Look through the core books, you'll see that all over, the idea that you can't do things unless you're told you can. Its half my issue with 4e

To be fair, I think you're misinterpreting that concept. I think the idea behind that statement is to give more power to the GM and restrict metagame min/maxing. No reasonable GM will be unbending on something like an alignment change, especially considering it has no mechanical effect on the game.
#8
tequila_sunrise
Jan 07, 2009 11:18:42
Of course it makes no sense, along with half of 4e. If you failed to notice nothing anywhere in the PHB or DMG mentions changing alignment or dealing with a change in alignment. Unlike previous editions where things are flexible unless it says you can't change them, in 4e if you haven't noticed things can only be changed when it says they can. Look through the core books, you'll see that all over, the idea that you can't do things unless you're told you can. Its half my issue with 4e

Where does it say "you can't do something unless the rules say you can"? I'd like a page reference, but whatever the book says, characters quite clearly can change alignment. A character's alignment is a result of how the player rps him; so if the character's actions and personality changes over time, the character's alignment can change with them. I mean, I guess a group is free to let LG characters burn orphanages for sport, but at that point the group has long since stopped using alignment as the guideline that 4e assumes it to be.

Anyway, aren't you a 2e veteran? So why so much emphasis on the RAW?

TS

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 csotnalucard Jan 05, 2009 22:27:20	Hello again. I was reading about 3.5 cleric domains and about how alignment doesn't matter and i was thinking of making domains for alignments. I was mainly thinking feat based. This would allow clerics more feats (something I've heard there in dire need of) and allow more difference in clerics (something I've heard a lot of people complain about) because it's completely optional. I was hoping to keep this apart from channel divinity but keep it available for all divine classes. Now before you say it i know this would limit clerics to alignments or the cleric would lose powers if he changed alignments somehow yes i realize this and am still thinking of ways to solve that. What I'm posting this for is (using the 4ed alignment of LG, G, U, E, CE) power ideas things that would be fun but not worth more then a feat. And if you have suggestions as to how to solve the alignment change problem by all means tell me. The later would be much more appreciated. Once again any comments are appreciated and i thank you for them. I will obviously post the way i did this later when its done Thanks again.
#2 Undrhil Jan 05, 2009 23:35:22	Clerics are already limited in their alignment: they have to be the same alignment as their deity (or they can be unaligned, I suppose.) Clerics actually have more feats than any other class, thanks to the fact that each deity has it's own Channel Divinty feat. I don't know if Clerics lose powers if they change alignment in 4e. I haven't really read up on it. But I can't see how it would matter if you made alignment be a prerequisite for a feat. I haven't seen any mechanic in place to make you retrain a feat if you are no longer qualified for it...
#3 vebrandsson Jan 06, 2009 18:59:11	I don't know if Clerics lose powers if they change alignment in 4e. Looks like someone else hasn't noticed it. You cannot change your alignment in 4e, the one you pick at lvl 1 is the one you have to stick with your entire adventuring career. So worrying about no longer being qualified is not an issue. Also there is a system for retraining feats if you loose your qualification for them. Read the Purify Spellscarred ritual in the FRPG (p144), it says "A character who has gained the Student of the Spellplague feat, or any other feats that require a creature to be spellscarred, loses those feats and can choose others to replace them"
#4 tequila_sunrise Jan 06, 2009 19:46:17	Now before you say it i know this would limit clerics to alignments or the cleric would lose powers if he changed alignments somehow yes i realize this and am still thinking of ways to solve that. If a cleric or paladin loses the benefit of his feat due to an alignment change, he could always just retrain it next level. I think it'd nicely simulate "finding a new faith" experience. Clerics are already limited in their alignment: they have to be the same alignment as their deity (or they can be unaligned, I suppose.) But there are no mechanical penalties for changing alignment, so the cleric/paladin alignment restrictions are effectively meaningless. Unless of course, you play with house rules. Looks like someone else hasn't noticed it. You cannot change your alignment in 4e, the one you pick at lvl 1 is the one you have to stick with your entire adventuring career. Where exactly does it say that? TS
#5 Einlanzer Jan 06, 2009 21:30:50	I dont' recall it every saying that anywhere, that would make no sense at all. Regardless, alignment has virtually no mechanical effects in 4e so you could really rule it however you wanted to.
#6 vebrandsson Jan 07, 2009 10:17:24	I dont' recall it every saying that anywhere, that would make no sense at all. Regardless, alignment has virtually no mechanical effects in 4e so you could really rule it however you wanted to. Of course it makes no sense, along with half of 4e. If you failed to notice nothing anywhere in the PHB or DMG mentions changing alignment or dealing with a change in alignment. Unlike previous editions where things are flexible unless it says you can't change them, in 4e if you haven't noticed things can only be changed when it says they can. Look through the core books, you'll see that all over, the idea that you can't do things unless you're told you can. Its half my issue with 4e
#7 Einlanzer Jan 07, 2009 11:11:02	Of course it makes no sense, along with half of 4e. If you failed to notice nothing anywhere in the PHB or DMG mentions changing alignment or dealing with a change in alignment. Unlike previous editions where things are flexible unless it says you can't change them, in 4e if you haven't noticed things can only be changed when it says they can. Look through the core books, you'll see that all over, the idea that you can't do things unless you're told you can. Its half my issue with 4e To be fair, I think you're misinterpreting that concept. I think the idea behind that statement is to give more power to the GM and restrict metagame min/maxing. No reasonable GM will be unbending on something like an alignment change, especially considering it has no mechanical effect on the game.
#8 tequila_sunrise Jan 07, 2009 11:18:42	Of course it makes no sense, along with half of 4e. If you failed to notice nothing anywhere in the PHB or DMG mentions changing alignment or dealing with a change in alignment. Unlike previous editions where things are flexible unless it says you can't change them, in 4e if you haven't noticed things can only be changed when it says they can. Look through the core books, you'll see that all over, the idea that you can't do things unless you're told you can. Its half my issue with 4e Where does it say "you can't do something unless the rules say you can"? I'd like a page reference, but whatever the book says, characters quite clearly can change alignment. A character's alignment is a result of how the player rps him; so if the character's actions and personality changes over time, the character's alignment can change with them. I mean, I guess a group is free to let LG characters burn orphanages for sport, but at that point the group has long since stopped using alignment as the guideline that 4e assumes it to be. Anyway, aren't you a 2e veteran? So why so much emphasis on the RAW? TS