Ideas for Two Expertise Feats - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Ideas for Two Expertise Feats

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
IxidorRS
May 09, 2012 16:44:58 Thrown Weapon Expertise
Gain a +1/2/3 feat bonus to the weapon attack rolls of attacks made with a thrown weapon.
When you make a ranged attack with a thrown weapon against a creature adjacent to you, you do not provoke oppurtunity attacks.

Shield Expertise
Gain a +1/2/3 feat bonus to weapon attack rolls made while wielding a shield and a +2/3/4 bonus to attack rolls when using a non-weapon power that requires you to be using a shield.

I don't throw together house rules much, but I think these two feats would be very welcome for some builds. I think the first could be a good basis for another build for the Ranger (Hunter).
#2
mattador666
May 10, 2012 8:24:54 My thrown weapon expertise.
thrown weapon expertise: +1/2/3 to hit, and ignore penalty for attacking at long range.

Made it specifically for a thrown weapon hunter and homebrewed warlord.
#3
alitain
May 10, 2012 12:38:06
Thrown Weapon Expertise
Gain a +1/2/3 feat bonus to the weapon attack rolls of attacks made with a thrown weapon.
When you make a ranged attack with a thrown weapon against a creature adjacent to you, you do not provoke oppurtunity attacks.

Shield Expertise
Gain a +1/2/3 feat bonus to weapon attack rolls made while wielding a shield and a +2/3/4 bonus to attack rolls when using a non-weapon power that requires you to be using a shield.

I don't throw together house rules much, but I think these two feats would be very welcome for some builds. I think the first could be a good basis for another build for the Ranger (Hunter).

Okay so the first half of both your feats seem...kinda pointless. I mean they're the exact same as getting the weapon expertise feats, so it seems the only reason you included those parts is so people didn't have to take weapon expertise AND this feat. Actually I stand corrected, it's a lot stronger and better. Didn't catch this before, but those feats give an attack bonus to any attack unlike weapon expertise that requires you to pick a weapon type. Definitely has the potential to be powerful.

The second half of the thrown weapon expertise is way powerful, and I speak from experience. I DM'ed a game once where one of the players played the marauder ranger build, the one that is built around a melee and thrown weapon. That build gives the ability, or there was some feat(can't remember) that did the same thing, made it so any of his thrown attacks didn't provoke OA. Now I didn't make him change or anything, because that's the build. But it was damn powerful. He slaughtered a lot of enemies and I couldn't touch him when he made his thrown attacks in melee which was all the time. So I really don't recommend this at all. To allow anyone using a thrown weapon OA immunity is pretty strong. I mean maybe alone, as an epic feat but not as a heroic feat WITH an atk bonus.

Shield Expertise-
Well like I said, the first part has the potential to be quite powerful. The second part...I honestly do not get it. You already get a scaling bonus for attacks while wielding a shield. Then you give them double the scaling bonus for non weapon attacks that require a shield? What non-weapon attacks require a shield? I mean maybe there are some I just have never seen them so I'm confused. At first I thought this feat gave a bonus to implement users, and I guess it does in the sense that implement attacks aren't weapon attacks and it's easy to wield a shield and implement. But the whole "require a shield" part has me perplexed.
#4
mattador666
May 10, 2012 13:55:31 Plenty of ranged classes can get a No-OA feature. Shadowdance armor can give it at low-heroic. The hunter does at 9. Staff expertise grants it. Sharpshooter gets it, and can make OAs with ranged weapons at 16.

Also, see the new Two-Handed Weapon Expertise feat. It says you must have a two-handed weapon, doesn't specify a type, so there is precedence for it.

Many of those Shield Bash-type powers don't have the weapon keyword, so they scale horribly. Those bonuses help bring it in line. I like the feat, it makes thematically cool, yet ineffective builds work. Consider it stolen.

edit: fixed phone post.

#5
IxidorRS
May 10, 2012 21:43:30
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Many of those Shield Bash-type powers don't have the weapon keyword, so they scale horribly. Those bonuses help bring it in line. I like the feat, it makes thematically cool, yet ineffective builds work. Consider it stolen.

edit: fixed phone post.

That's actually why I made it. You get a regular bonus for weapon attacks if you give up your off-hand to wield a shield, and then you get a better bonus for the ridiculously innacurate attacks that don't use your weapon but require a shield. I think it's actually a great trade off and not particularly better than other expertise feats. Should probably be worded as only one-handed weapons just to make sure no shenanigans with finding a way to wield the shield while still using a two-handed weapon.

Regarding the thrown weapon expertise, I also considered wording it so that you only don't provoke against the target, but this is actually weaker than Staff Expertise so I figured it would be fine as is. If you think it's too strong, make it so it only doesn't provoke from the target or you get a +4 to the OA instead (or maybe just the first OA, see Battle Caster's Defense or the Ranger's Hunting fighting style).
#6
Fireclave
May 11, 2012 15:14:38 I like both feats. And I think the Thrown Weapon Expertise is particularly interesting. Gives range specialists a way to mix it up in melee, but doesn't complete remove the need to maneuver out of melee to attack distant targets.

Okay so the first half of both your feats seem...kinda pointless. I mean they're the exact same as getting the weapon expertise feats, so it seems the only reason you included those parts is so people didn't have to take weapon expertise AND this feat. Actually I stand corrected, it's a lot stronger and better. Didn't catch this before, but those feats give an attack bonus to any attack unlike weapon expertise that requires you to pick a weapon type. Definitely has the potential to be powerful.

That's standard practice for all official expertise printed after Weapon Expertise. And they all basically read "As Weapon/Implement Expertise, but can do this other cool thing," completely obsoleting Weapon and Implement Expertise.

#7
embertiger
May 14, 2012 13:11:31 These look good to me. The shield one could honestly probably also add a bonus to damage rolls to the second part and still be fine. Most of the "sheild bash" options are underpowered past low heroic because you can't get equipment bonuses on them.
#8
WhisperMagellan
May 16, 2012 4:03:01 There are only a couple of non-weapon shield attacks for the Fighter. (that I've seen).

Maybe other classes have more use for that.
But then I'm not a fan of the expertise feats in general (power creep, if you need the feat to hit the target, then the fight is already broken, etc, etc.)
#9
mattador666
May 16, 2012 17:07:42
There are only a couple of non-weapon shield attacks for the Fighter. (that I've seen).

Maybe other classes have more use for that.
But then I'm not a fan of the expertise feats in general (power creep, if you need the feat to hit the target, then the fight is already broken, etc, etc.)

They're all in Dragon 385. They're pretty cool, too. But they scale horribly. They need the feat to hit the target, because the power was written stupid. And there's no reason to punish the player or party for wanting to play something they like because the powers were written stupid...."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 IxidorRS May 09, 2012 16:44:58	Thrown Weapon Expertise Gain a +1/2/3 feat bonus to the weapon attack rolls of attacks made with a thrown weapon. When you make a ranged attack with a thrown weapon against a creature adjacent to you, you do not provoke oppurtunity attacks. Shield Expertise Gain a +1/2/3 feat bonus to weapon attack rolls made while wielding a shield and a +2/3/4 bonus to attack rolls when using a non-weapon power that requires you to be using a shield. I don't throw together house rules much, but I think these two feats would be very welcome for some builds. I think the first could be a good basis for another build for the Ranger (Hunter).
#2 mattador666 May 10, 2012 8:24:54	My thrown weapon expertise. thrown weapon expertise: +1/2/3 to hit, and ignore penalty for attacking at long range. Made it specifically for a thrown weapon hunter and homebrewed warlord.
#3 alitain May 10, 2012 12:38:06	Thrown Weapon Expertise Gain a +1/2/3 feat bonus to the weapon attack rolls of attacks made with a thrown weapon. When you make a ranged attack with a thrown weapon against a creature adjacent to you, you do not provoke oppurtunity attacks. Shield Expertise Gain a +1/2/3 feat bonus to weapon attack rolls made while wielding a shield and a +2/3/4 bonus to attack rolls when using a non-weapon power that requires you to be using a shield. I don't throw together house rules much, but I think these two feats would be very welcome for some builds. I think the first could be a good basis for another build for the Ranger (Hunter). Okay so the first half of both your feats seem...kinda pointless. I mean they're the exact same as getting the weapon expertise feats, so it seems the only reason you included those parts is so people didn't have to take weapon expertise AND this feat. Actually I stand corrected, it's a lot stronger and better. Didn't catch this before, but those feats give an attack bonus to any attack unlike weapon expertise that requires you to pick a weapon type. Definitely has the potential to be powerful. The second half of the thrown weapon expertise is way powerful, and I speak from experience. I DM'ed a game once where one of the players played the marauder ranger build, the one that is built around a melee and thrown weapon. That build gives the ability, or there was some feat(can't remember) that did the same thing, made it so any of his thrown attacks didn't provoke OA. Now I didn't make him change or anything, because that's the build. But it was damn powerful. He slaughtered a lot of enemies and I couldn't touch him when he made his thrown attacks in melee which was all the time. So I really don't recommend this at all. To allow anyone using a thrown weapon OA immunity is pretty strong. I mean maybe alone, as an epic feat but not as a heroic feat WITH an atk bonus. Shield Expertise- Well like I said, the first part has the potential to be quite powerful. The second part...I honestly do not get it. You already get a scaling bonus for attacks while wielding a shield. Then you give them double the scaling bonus for non weapon attacks that require a shield? What non-weapon attacks require a shield? I mean maybe there are some I just have never seen them so I'm confused. At first I thought this feat gave a bonus to implement users, and I guess it does in the sense that implement attacks aren't weapon attacks and it's easy to wield a shield and implement. But the whole "require a shield" part has me perplexed.
#4 mattador666 May 10, 2012 13:55:31	Plenty of ranged classes can get a No-OA feature. Shadowdance armor can give it at low-heroic. The hunter does at 9. Staff expertise grants it. Sharpshooter gets it, and can make OAs with ranged weapons at 16. Also, see the new Two-Handed Weapon Expertise feat. It says you must have a two-handed weapon, doesn't specify a type, so there is precedence for it. Many of those Shield Bash-type powers don't have the weapon keyword, so they scale horribly. Those bonuses help bring it in line. I like the feat, it makes thematically cool, yet ineffective builds work. Consider it stolen. edit: fixed phone post.
#5 IxidorRS May 10, 2012 21:43:30	..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Many of those Shield Bash-type powers don't have the weapon keyword, so they scale horribly. Those bonuses help bring it in line. I like the feat, it makes thematically cool, yet ineffective builds work. Consider it stolen. edit: fixed phone post. That's actually why I made it. You get a regular bonus for weapon attacks if you give up your off-hand to wield a shield, and then you get a better bonus for the ridiculously innacurate attacks that don't use your weapon but require a shield. I think it's actually a great trade off and not particularly better than other expertise feats. Should probably be worded as only one-handed weapons just to make sure no shenanigans with finding a way to wield the shield while still using a two-handed weapon. Regarding the thrown weapon expertise, I also considered wording it so that you only don't provoke against the target, but this is actually weaker than Staff Expertise so I figured it would be fine as is. If you think it's too strong, make it so it only doesn't provoke from the target or you get a +4 to the OA instead (or maybe just the first OA, see Battle Caster's Defense or the Ranger's Hunting fighting style).
#6 Fireclave May 11, 2012 15:14:38	I like both feats. And I think the Thrown Weapon Expertise is particularly interesting. Gives range specialists a way to mix it up in melee, but doesn't complete remove the need to maneuver out of melee to attack distant targets. Okay so the first half of both your feats seem...kinda pointless. I mean they're the exact same as getting the weapon expertise feats, so it seems the only reason you included those parts is so people didn't have to take weapon expertise AND this feat. Actually I stand corrected, it's a lot stronger and better. Didn't catch this before, but those feats give an attack bonus to any attack unlike weapon expertise that requires you to pick a weapon type. Definitely has the potential to be powerful. That's standard practice for all official expertise printed after Weapon Expertise. And they all basically read "As Weapon/Implement Expertise, but can do this other cool thing," completely obsoleting Weapon and Implement Expertise.
#7 embertiger May 14, 2012 13:11:31	These look good to me. The shield one could honestly probably also add a bonus to damage rolls to the second part and still be fine. Most of the "sheild bash" options are underpowered past low heroic because you can't get equipment bonuses on them.
#8 WhisperMagellan May 16, 2012 4:03:01	There are only a couple of non-weapon shield attacks for the Fighter. (that I've seen). Maybe other classes have more use for that. But then I'm not a fan of the expertise feats in general (power creep, if you need the feat to hit the target, then the fight is already broken, etc, etc.)
#9 mattador666 May 16, 2012 17:07:42	There are only a couple of non-weapon shield attacks for the Fighter. (that I've seen). Maybe other classes have more use for that. But then I'm not a fan of the expertise feats in general (power creep, if you need the feat to hit the target, then the fight is already broken, etc, etc.) They're all in Dragon 385. They're pretty cool, too. But they scale horribly. They need the feat to hit the target, because the power was written stupid. And there's no reason to punish the player or party for wanting to play something they like because the powers were written stupid...."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />