Identifying Magic - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Identifying Magic

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
chavil
Aug 22, 2008 10:36:08 I really don't like the way 4E identifies magic and will house rule it. I plan to still use the short rest to inform the players that the item is magic. Beyond that it will take a ritual to identify the specific magical qualities of that item.

Before I spend time building the new ritual I'm wondering if anyone has already done that. If so could you please share it. Thanks!
#2
ninjadebugger
Aug 22, 2008 10:41:06
I really don't like the way 4E identifies magic and will house rule it. I plan to still use the short rest to inform the players that the item is magic. Beyond that it will take a ritual to identify the specific magical qualities of that item.

Before I spend time building the new ritual I'm wondering if anyone has already done that. If so could you please share it. Thanks!

Identify
Level 1 Ritual
GP Cost: 0 GP
Market Price: 0 GP
Casting Time: As long as the DM wants you to not be able to use the item in question.

Effect: Find out what the item does.
Special: You do not need the Ritual Casting feat to learn and use this ritual.
#3
wyld_mutation
Aug 22, 2008 11:50:32
Identifying Magic Items
Most of the time, you can determine the properties
and powers of a magic item during a short rest. In the
course of handling the item for a few minutes, you
discover what the item is and what it does. You can
identify one magic item per short rest.

Some magic items might be a bit harder to identify,
such as cursed or nonstandard items, or powerful
magical artifacts. Your DM might ask for an Arcana
check to determine their properties, or you might even
need to go on a special quest to find a ritual to identify
or to unlock the powers of a unique item.

Just have them make an arcana check against a medium DC for each item until they identify it. However most magic items are clearly spoecial (tell them the enhancement no matter what) and many have a clue as to what they do. (A vorpal item may be amazingly sharp, or have a jgged edge, perhaps it is surrounded by swirling darkness. Decide yourself.)

Alternatively you could have them roll a d20 every short rest for each magic item and a 11 or higher they identify it. And give a few freebies here and there, a frost sword will likely be very cold to the touch.

As the above poster implied it would be fairly annoying to have to identify everything.
#4
antioch
Aug 22, 2008 11:55:30 Initially I required an Arcana check to determine the effects of the item. It was generally DC 15-20, but the wizard has about a +11 (not counting Aid Another bonuses): basically, there is almost no way for him to fail.

I've since stopped, leaving the Arcana checks for more important things than basic magic items. It just feels more like forcing the characters to wait just as long as it takes for them to roll a die to determine the properties. Having them take a short rest (5 minutes) seems equally like a waste of time because its generally not hard to take a quick breather.

The way I look at it is assumed/retroactive RP: I tell the players what it does just to get it out of the way, and presumably sometime after they found it, an arcanist figures out what it does (either by quickly examining runes or inscriptions on the weapon), or explains it fully later (perhaps during a short rest).
Basically, if the party has someone trained in Arcana, I'm not opposed to just explaining it to avoid hidden modifiers for the few minutes it would take them to make a few rolls or rest to figure it all out.
#5
wyld_mutation
Aug 22, 2008 12:21:57 Yes well you made one mistake in setting the DC. It's too low. At level one maybe. However I'd make the DC 15+Item Level.

Maxes it 35 right? A wizard with max intelligence and Skill Focus would get at lvl30:

15+8+10=+33. A 12 or more would identify the item (60% failure rate)

Now at level on: 8+5= 13. You identify almost every time. (15% failure).

Strange eh? Maybe 20+level?
#6
antioch
Aug 22, 2008 12:36:25 If I make the DC 15 + item level, then a 1st-level wizard with a bonus of +8 (+10 if eladrin) will successfully identify most items a little more than half the time, since the DC will range from 16 (for a 1st-level item) to 20 (for a 5th-level item).
If I make the DC 18 + item level, then they will identify things less than half the time. What does this mean? More wasted time having the player roll a bunch of times until they "get it right".

Anyway, I dont have a problem with the default method, or perhaps by using a short rest to do it also works. Having a ritual seems very counter productive since most rituals have casting times longer than a short rest.
#7
wyld_mutation
Aug 22, 2008 12:40:45 I'm saying they are only allowed to check once a day. They still gain any Enhancement. And some properties will be flat out impossible to hide. (resistance, Vorpal etc.)
#8
antioch
Aug 22, 2008 13:30:00 One thing I dislike about the players not knowing what an item's enhancement bonus is, is that I have to continually remember to add it to attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, or defenses. Worse yet, if its black iron armor, then I have to also remember to account for energy resistances in addition to the AC boost. As a DM, I already have quite a bit on my plate to need to account for that.

Again, I'm not against telling players outright what an item does, as I assume that at some point their characters have the means to discover it, and eventually do. It could be through Arcana, or during a short/extended rest. The bottom line is that they can track it more reliably.

Now, I could see an optional rule where I would tell the players up front what an item's enhancement bonus is. If they get a magic amulet, they're going to know that it boosts their defenses. However, they might not know what its other properties are.
For example, if they find a +3 amulet of false life, I'll tell them to add 3 to their defenses, but not that they can regain hit points as a minor action. They get all the passive benefits upfront, but not the stuff that requires an activation.
#9
Xaielao2
Aug 22, 2008 13:51:13 I let my players identify magical items via an Arcana check, which reveals that the item is magic and it's main function (IE bonuses, etc.) If the item has a power - which includes most magic items in 4e - they must take to be identified by a sage or someone in the field the item was made.

For example in H1 when my players found the Dwarven Chainmail +1 they derived that it was magical and +1 in their short rest and to discover if it had more magical properties they discussed it with the sage in Winterhaven who recommended they show it to the dwarven smith, who promptly was able to fill them in on the powers of dwarven heavy armor, revealing to the new owner (a Dwarven Barbarian,) what he could do. I then printed out the new Daily power on card-stock and handed it to the player.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 chavil Aug 22, 2008 10:36:08	I really don't like the way 4E identifies magic and will house rule it. I plan to still use the short rest to inform the players that the item is magic. Beyond that it will take a ritual to identify the specific magical qualities of that item. Before I spend time building the new ritual I'm wondering if anyone has already done that. If so could you please share it. Thanks!
#2 ninjadebugger Aug 22, 2008 10:41:06	I really don't like the way 4E identifies magic and will house rule it. I plan to still use the short rest to inform the players that the item is magic. Beyond that it will take a ritual to identify the specific magical qualities of that item. Before I spend time building the new ritual I'm wondering if anyone has already done that. If so could you please share it. Thanks! Identify Level 1 Ritual GP Cost: 0 GP Market Price: 0 GP Casting Time: As long as the DM wants you to not be able to use the item in question. Effect: Find out what the item does. Special: You do not need the Ritual Casting feat to learn and use this ritual.
#3 wyld_mutation Aug 22, 2008 11:50:32	Identifying Magic Items Most of the time, you can determine the properties and powers of a magic item during a short rest. In the course of handling the item for a few minutes, you discover what the item is and what it does. You can identify one magic item per short rest. Some magic items might be a bit harder to identify, such as cursed or nonstandard items, or powerful magical artifacts. Your DM might ask for an Arcana check to determine their properties, or you might even need to go on a special quest to find a ritual to identify or to unlock the powers of a unique item. Just have them make an arcana check against a medium DC for each item until they identify it. However most magic items are clearly spoecial (tell them the enhancement no matter what) and many have a clue as to what they do. (A vorpal item may be amazingly sharp, or have a jgged edge, perhaps it is surrounded by swirling darkness. Decide yourself.) Alternatively you could have them roll a d20 every short rest for each magic item and a 11 or higher they identify it. And give a few freebies here and there, a frost sword will likely be very cold to the touch. As the above poster implied it would be fairly annoying to have to identify everything.
#4 antioch Aug 22, 2008 11:55:30	Initially I required an Arcana check to determine the effects of the item. It was generally DC 15-20, but the wizard has about a +11 (not counting Aid Another bonuses): basically, there is almost no way for him to fail. I've since stopped, leaving the Arcana checks for more important things than basic magic items. It just feels more like forcing the characters to wait just as long as it takes for them to roll a die to determine the properties. Having them take a short rest (5 minutes) seems equally like a waste of time because its generally not hard to take a quick breather. The way I look at it is assumed/retroactive RP: I tell the players what it does just to get it out of the way, and presumably sometime after they found it, an arcanist figures out what it does (either by quickly examining runes or inscriptions on the weapon), or explains it fully later (perhaps during a short rest). Basically, if the party has someone trained in Arcana, I'm not opposed to just explaining it to avoid hidden modifiers for the few minutes it would take them to make a few rolls or rest to figure it all out.
#5 wyld_mutation Aug 22, 2008 12:21:57	Yes well you made one mistake in setting the DC. It's too low. At level one maybe. However I'd make the DC 15+Item Level. Maxes it 35 right? A wizard with max intelligence and Skill Focus would get at lvl30: 15+8+10=+33. A 12 or more would identify the item (60% failure rate) Now at level on: 8+5= 13. You identify almost every time. (15% failure). Strange eh? Maybe 20+level?
#6 antioch Aug 22, 2008 12:36:25	If I make the DC 15 + item level, then a 1st-level wizard with a bonus of +8 (+10 if eladrin) will successfully identify most items a little more than half the time, since the DC will range from 16 (for a 1st-level item) to 20 (for a 5th-level item). If I make the DC 18 + item level, then they will identify things less than half the time. What does this mean? More wasted time having the player roll a bunch of times until they "get it right". Anyway, I dont have a problem with the default method, or perhaps by using a short rest to do it also works. Having a ritual seems very counter productive since most rituals have casting times longer than a short rest.
#7 wyld_mutation Aug 22, 2008 12:40:45	I'm saying they are only allowed to check once a day. They still gain any Enhancement. And some properties will be flat out impossible to hide. (resistance, Vorpal etc.)
#8 antioch Aug 22, 2008 13:30:00	One thing I dislike about the players not knowing what an item's enhancement bonus is, is that I have to continually remember to add it to attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, or defenses. Worse yet, if its black iron armor, then I have to also remember to account for energy resistances in addition to the AC boost. As a DM, I already have quite a bit on my plate to need to account for that. Again, I'm not against telling players outright what an item does, as I assume that at some point their characters have the means to discover it, and eventually do. It could be through Arcana, or during a short/extended rest. The bottom line is that they can track it more reliably. Now, I could see an optional rule where I would tell the players up front what an item's enhancement bonus is. If they get a magic amulet, they're going to know that it boosts their defenses. However, they might not know what its other properties are. For example, if they find a +3 amulet of false life, I'll tell them to add 3 to their defenses, but not that they can regain hit points as a minor action. They get all the passive benefits upfront, but not the stuff that requires an activation.
#9 Xaielao2 Aug 22, 2008 13:51:13	I let my players identify magical items via an Arcana check, which reveals that the item is magic and it's main function (IE bonuses, etc.) If the item has a power - which includes most magic items in 4e - they must take to be identified by a sage or someone in the field the item was made. For example in H1 when my players found the Dwarven Chainmail +1 they derived that it was magical and +1 in their short rest and to discover if it had more magical properties they discussed it with the sage in Winterhaven who recommended they show it to the dwarven smith, who promptly was able to fill them in on the powers of dwarven heavy armor, revealing to the new owner (a Dwarven Barbarian,) what he could do. I then printed out the new Daily power on card-stock and handed it to the player.