Immortal tier (levels 31-40) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Immortal tier (levels 31-40)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
nihilix
Sep 02, 2010 23:18:58 I'm curious if there was any legit homebrew Immortal Tier made out there, and if their wasn't, I would love some suggestions for such a thing. Maybe even construct one here.
#2
alitain
Sep 03, 2010 1:06:17 Well the search function would be a good idea to help you maybe find threads.

That aside, I think I saw a topic once where someone was thinking of a 30+ tier. The issue with it is that aside from the godliest of gods and primordials, etc, your wicked strong for everything by 30. But one suggestion was letting players either take a 2nd class, paragon path, or epic destiny. Something along those lines.

Me personally, I kinda like the idea of a second class but then that'd make characters uber powerful in some cases expecially if you combine striker classes, and basically any classes that are the same type. Also you have the problem of so many powers and abilities.

Another suggestion I saw was allowing players to take more powers. They'd gain a new at will from their class at 31, and basically so on and so forth with powers. This could be bad considering they'd have more powers to use, but then a DM would be pitting them against crazy powerful monsters I'd hope.

Lastly, someone just said to homebrew an epic destiny beyond epic destiny, an if you will, Immortal destiny or path or whatever you wanna call it. That'd be hard though to homebrew something that doesn't really have any actual basis.

Good luck, I'd just still with making tough challenges but not really bother carrying on the game past 30, just to make it easier.
#3
Astromath
Sep 03, 2010 7:21:20 My opinion: Once you are past level 30, you are now playing in the deities backyards. Some will ignore you, others might take you under their wing as possible exarcs, the others will either send you home or kill you. They may not be all-knowing or all-powerful, but they are so darn powerful that they do not have stats for them. They basically can do whatever the DM wants them to do. Even the ones that are statted have powers that do not influence combat and therefore not in the stat blocks.

Let's take Vecna for example. He's one of the statted deities. I can imagine that he has a power that alerts him to the presence of a living being if they set foot in his domain.

Lolth, another statted deity. She has the capability to detect any being, living or dead, entering her domain of webs because that is what webs do.

However, it is possible for a non-deity to kill a deity. Look at the Raven Queen's background.

Also, don't forget there are the overgods. Deities so powerful that they are the deities' deity. Lord Ao of the Forgotten Realms is an example of this, and in the novels where he appears, he indicates that there are others.

Finally, I'm not really trying to discourage you from making such a tier, it's just that it will be extremely difficult come up with challenges for players of that tier.
#4
Qube
Sep 03, 2010 7:50:47 I haven't seen one yet; maybe if I have time I'll work on it.

Finally, I'm not really trying to discourage you from making such a tier, it's just that it will be extremely difficult come up with challenges for players of that tier.

enter Chuthulu Mithos - far realms creatures so terrible that they can easely whipe the floor with people.

#5
rampant
Sep 03, 2010 9:39:07 THe monster builder goes up to level 99.
#6
tedium
Sep 03, 2010 12:44:54 Ideas:
Adventures on the Astral Plane: The characters try and carve out their own dominions, by diplomacy if possible, or force if necessary, or are recruited directly as exarchs for a god

The Far Realm: Perhaps some of their actions which lead to their ascension caused breaches in the very fabric of reality, and now the gods of other universes are looking hungrily at this one.

The Dusk War: The primordials of the Elemental Chaos launch a final attempt to reclaim the worlds that had been created from there.

(or, just for kicks, all 3 at once if you're feeling up to it)

Mechanics:
Domains: Similar to how paragon paths/epic destinies work, each character picks a domain for his power (as with the domains of the gods). Probably mainly properties (the aspect of light adds radiant damage to the types of any burst or blast attack, dominion over thieves gives a permanent bonus to stealth, and the ability to find cover/concealement where noone else can).

Powers: I like the idea of going back through the power list, maybe rescaling some of the earlier ones to breathe some new life into them. I would suggest the "Extra class" mechanic be restricted to Immortal multiclassing (after taking paragon multiclassing, you may chose this to gain all features of your second class, and may retrain for powers from either class when you level, as well as (possibly with a feat) taking a paragon path from either class).
The multi-paragon paths could be added in as a separate feat anyway.

Level progression: keep adding a feat every 2 levels, and make some Immortal tier ones. Still get the +1 to 2 stats every 4 levels (starting at 34, with a +1 to all at 31).

Gaining powers: Possibly add another encounter and daily over the course of the tier (though excluding additions from paragon paths and epic destinies, these have been fixed since level 10). Any powers granted by the domain are additional. Add a utility power somewhere in the tier (32, 36 would seem to be the ones that match the rest of the progression best, with one of these possibly being linked to the domain).
#7
nihilix
Sep 03, 2010 14:55:29 What I would do at those levels is already covered. I'm more curious on the mechanics and the gain of powers at those levels. At 31+ i would start taking down Gods and the like and claim their portfolio for the Raven Queen and I. lots of interesting things can happen then. i'm just interested in what kind of powers i could get through that and how to increase levels above that, and maybe to use that for other campaigns.
#8
alitain
Sep 03, 2010 15:09:26
THe monster builder goes up to level 99.

Actually, it goes WAY higher than that, I fooled around with it and made a monster lv1000. Just saying haha
#9
Igfig
Sep 03, 2010 18:23:18 I agree with a lot of what Tedium is saying. Progressions should stay the same for feats, powers, ability scores, and so on. Scaling bonuses such as Expertise and enhancement bonuses should continue to scale.

Rather than try to make and balance a whole bunch of new powers, I'd let players take existing powers:
Lvl 33: lvl 27 encounter

Lvl 35: lvl 29 daily dealing +1 die of damage

Lvl 37: lvl 27 encounter dealing +1 die of damage

Lvl 39: lvl 29 daily dealing +2 dice of damage

and maybe instead of giving bigger utilities, one would just give more of them.

The most complicated part of the Immortal tier would be what Tedium is calling Domains. I think I'll call them Divine Portfolios instead, to keep them distinct them from domain feats. As for what your portfolio actually does for you, well...

The thing about PCs is that their power is entirely personal. A level 30 PC can walk anywhere in the universe, steal someone's childhood memories, or go back in time and resurrect himself. He cannot, however, raise an army to go conquer a neighbouring country--or even if he can, it's not represented in his stats.

A god's power, however, is sovereign and conceptual. A god isn't all that much harder to fight than any other monster of the same level, after all. No, a god's divinity does two major things: it lets it gain power from and bestow blessings upon mortals anywhere in the multiverse, and it lets it claim authority over an abstract concept such as 'War' or 'Civilization'.

In other words, a Divine Portfolio should let PCs take actions on an unlimited scale. I'm imagining a big aura that grants some benefit relating to your portfolio, and you can also plunk down a copy of that aura anywhere in the multiverse to grant people your blessing. Like the Old Man With The Canaries' thing, but with a smaller bonus and a wider reach. Immunity to the attacks of creatures below 21st level is a given, and should be joined by the ability to do pretty much whatever you like to such a creature (no save).

Basically, the trick is to have features that benefit the PC about as much as an epic destiny's stuff, but also benefit everyone else to a small degree. And, y'know, metaphysics.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 nihilix Sep 02, 2010 23:18:58	I'm curious if there was any legit homebrew Immortal Tier made out there, and if their wasn't, I would love some suggestions for such a thing. Maybe even construct one here.
#2 alitain Sep 03, 2010 1:06:17	Well the search function would be a good idea to help you maybe find threads. That aside, I think I saw a topic once where someone was thinking of a 30+ tier. The issue with it is that aside from the godliest of gods and primordials, etc, your wicked strong for everything by 30. But one suggestion was letting players either take a 2nd class, paragon path, or epic destiny. Something along those lines. Me personally, I kinda like the idea of a second class but then that'd make characters uber powerful in some cases expecially if you combine striker classes, and basically any classes that are the same type. Also you have the problem of so many powers and abilities. Another suggestion I saw was allowing players to take more powers. They'd gain a new at will from their class at 31, and basically so on and so forth with powers. This could be bad considering they'd have more powers to use, but then a DM would be pitting them against crazy powerful monsters I'd hope. Lastly, someone just said to homebrew an epic destiny beyond epic destiny, an if you will, Immortal destiny or path or whatever you wanna call it. That'd be hard though to homebrew something that doesn't really have any actual basis. Good luck, I'd just still with making tough challenges but not really bother carrying on the game past 30, just to make it easier.
#3 Astromath Sep 03, 2010 7:21:20	My opinion: Once you are past level 30, you are now playing in the deities backyards. Some will ignore you, others might take you under their wing as possible exarcs, the others will either send you home or kill you. They may not be all-knowing or all-powerful, but they are so darn powerful that they do not have stats for them. They basically can do whatever the DM wants them to do. Even the ones that are statted have powers that do not influence combat and therefore not in the stat blocks. Let's take Vecna for example. He's one of the statted deities. I can imagine that he has a power that alerts him to the presence of a living being if they set foot in his domain. Lolth, another statted deity. She has the capability to detect any being, living or dead, entering her domain of webs because that is what webs do. However, it is possible for a non-deity to kill a deity. Look at the Raven Queen's background. Also, don't forget there are the overgods. Deities so powerful that they are the deities' deity. Lord Ao of the Forgotten Realms is an example of this, and in the novels where he appears, he indicates that there are others. Finally, I'm not really trying to discourage you from making such a tier, it's just that it will be extremely difficult come up with challenges for players of that tier.
#4 Qube Sep 03, 2010 7:50:47	I haven't seen one yet; maybe if I have time I'll work on it. Finally, I'm not really trying to discourage you from making such a tier, it's just that it will be extremely difficult come up with challenges for players of that tier. enter Chuthulu Mithos - far realms creatures so terrible that they can easely whipe the floor with people.
#5 rampant Sep 03, 2010 9:39:07	THe monster builder goes up to level 99.
#6 tedium Sep 03, 2010 12:44:54	Ideas: Adventures on the Astral Plane: The characters try and carve out their own dominions, by diplomacy if possible, or force if necessary, or are recruited directly as exarchs for a god The Far Realm: Perhaps some of their actions which lead to their ascension caused breaches in the very fabric of reality, and now the gods of other universes are looking hungrily at this one. The Dusk War: The primordials of the Elemental Chaos launch a final attempt to reclaim the worlds that had been created from there. (or, just for kicks, all 3 at once if you're feeling up to it) Mechanics: Domains: Similar to how paragon paths/epic destinies work, each character picks a domain for his power (as with the domains of the gods). Probably mainly properties (the aspect of light adds radiant damage to the types of any burst or blast attack, dominion over thieves gives a permanent bonus to stealth, and the ability to find cover/concealement where noone else can). Powers: I like the idea of going back through the power list, maybe rescaling some of the earlier ones to breathe some new life into them. I would suggest the "Extra class" mechanic be restricted to Immortal multiclassing (after taking paragon multiclassing, you may chose this to gain all features of your second class, and may retrain for powers from either class when you level, as well as (possibly with a feat) taking a paragon path from either class). The multi-paragon paths could be added in as a separate feat anyway. Level progression: keep adding a feat every 2 levels, and make some Immortal tier ones. Still get the +1 to 2 stats every 4 levels (starting at 34, with a +1 to all at 31). Gaining powers: Possibly add another encounter and daily over the course of the tier (though excluding additions from paragon paths and epic destinies, these have been fixed since level 10). Any powers granted by the domain are additional. Add a utility power somewhere in the tier (32, 36 would seem to be the ones that match the rest of the progression best, with one of these possibly being linked to the domain).
#7 nihilix Sep 03, 2010 14:55:29	What I would do at those levels is already covered. I'm more curious on the mechanics and the gain of powers at those levels. At 31+ i would start taking down Gods and the like and claim their portfolio for the Raven Queen and I. lots of interesting things can happen then. i'm just interested in what kind of powers i could get through that and how to increase levels above that, and maybe to use that for other campaigns.
#8 alitain Sep 03, 2010 15:09:26	THe monster builder goes up to level 99. Actually, it goes WAY higher than that, I fooled around with it and made a monster lv1000. Just saying haha
#9 Igfig Sep 03, 2010 18:23:18	I agree with a lot of what Tedium is saying. Progressions should stay the same for feats, powers, ability scores, and so on. Scaling bonuses such as Expertise and enhancement bonuses should continue to scale. Rather than try to make and balance a whole bunch of new powers, I'd let players take existing powers: Lvl 33: lvl 27 encounter Lvl 35: lvl 29 daily dealing +1 die of damage Lvl 37: lvl 27 encounter dealing +1 die of damage Lvl 39: lvl 29 daily dealing +2 dice of damage and maybe instead of giving bigger utilities, one would just give more of them. The most complicated part of the Immortal tier would be what Tedium is calling Domains. I think I'll call them Divine Portfolios instead, to keep them distinct them from domain feats. As for what your portfolio actually does for you, well... The thing about PCs is that their power is entirely personal. A level 30 PC can walk anywhere in the universe, steal someone's childhood memories, or go back in time and resurrect himself. He cannot, however, raise an army to go conquer a neighbouring country--or even if he can, it's not represented in his stats. A god's power, however, is sovereign and conceptual. A god isn't all that much harder to fight than any other monster of the same level, after all. No, a god's divinity does two major things: it lets it gain power from and bestow blessings upon mortals anywhere in the multiverse, and it lets it claim authority over an abstract concept such as 'War' or 'Civilization'. In other words, a Divine Portfolio should let PCs take actions on an unlimited scale. I'm imagining a big aura that grants some benefit relating to your portfolio, and you can also plunk down a copy of that aura anywhere in the multiverse to grant people your blessing. Like the Old Man With The Canaries' thing, but with a smaller bonus and a wider reach. Immunity to the attacks of creatures below 21st level is a given, and should be joined by the ability to do pretty much whatever you like to such a creature (no save). Basically, the trick is to have features that benefit the PC about as much as an epic destiny's stuff, but also benefit everyone else to a small degree. And, y'know, metaphysics.