Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 urukar Jan 21, 2010 16:55:09	We are considering a house rule making implements work like weapon proficiencies: If you know how to use an implement for one "implement" power, you know how to use it for all implement powers.  Thus a swordmage does not need to take arcane impliment proficiency heavy blade to use his blade with his MC wizard powers. The major potential issue I see is the assassin multiclass, which would give impliment proficiency in potentially all weapons. Comments?
#2 Einlanzer Jan 22, 2010 0:13:20	Hm... mechanically it kind of makes sense, but thematically it doesn't really... I can't picture any serious balance issues off the top of my head though.
#3 sfurtwangler Jan 22, 2010 8:33:22	The major mechanical/ballance issue is that it makes the "arcane implement proficiency" feat worthless assuming your character qualifies for some other implement-weilding class that can use the implement he's interested in. For Heavy blades, your options are a little limited, but for something like wands, rods, staves, etc there are a couple of classes each, that would qualify. Then, in addition to all of the normal bonuses that the multiclass feat gives you, it would also effectively gives you arcane (or divine/primal) implement proficiency for free, one to three times. For example, a wizard MC feat would also grant proficiency in wands, orbs, tomes, and staves. That opens up a LOT of potential new magical enchantments for your implement weilder.
#4 urukar Jan 22, 2010 10:22:53	MC feats are already better than the average feat - but you are limited to one (except for bard and some special cases). Further, the weapon using classes already have this benefit - most weapons work for most powers, whether you get them from MC or not.  Perhaps the best way to do this would be to limit the impliment proficency granted by MC feats to only one impliment of the chosen class.
#5 sfurtwangler Jan 22, 2010 11:45:27	MC feats are already better than the average feat - but you are limited to one (except for bard and some special cases). ... and so it would be a bad idea to make them even better, right?   Further, the weapon using classes already have this benefit - most weapons work for most powers, whether you get them from MC or not.  Not quite. MCing into a weapon-using class lets you use their powers with your current weapons (usually, with exceptions like rogue and barbarian) but it doesnt' grant you proficiency in any new weapons. A wizard MCing into a fighter could use his staff (with his probably sub-par strength) but if he wanted to use a greatsword, he would need to spend another feat, or give up his proficiency bonus.   I'm not saying your rule will break the game, or anything - I also don't think its broken the way it is - but I'm just pointing out something to keep an eye on. You're offering something additional, for free, to multi-class casters.
#6 urukar Jan 22, 2010 11:54:25	Well, I considered removing the proficiencies from the MC feats entirely - but then a noncaster who wants to MC into a caster has no valid impliments.  Perhaps you should gain a single proficiency from all MC feats (so that MC rogue could give hand crossbow, etc.), or perhaps only non-impliment users (martial characters) should gain an impliment with multiclassing? I do not think that strengthening MC feats (slightly) is a problem, since you are limited to one in most cases. Ideally, I'd like to see Arcane impliment proficiency go from being required for MC builds to being optional but not useless.