Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lulzapalooza Feb 03, 2009 14:10:09	All the dungeons I've run so far have been pretty small; where every room could realistically contain something aggressive, defensive, or just plain cool. Now, I'd like the party to explore some place *big* with lots of windy corridors and undead jumping out to attack them when they least expect it. If I have a lot of 'herring' rooms in which it only looks like there might be something getting ready to attack the party, will it increase tension, or will it make the party bored? I'm a strong believer in having every aspect of a dungeon serve a purpose. Sometimes, the purpose might not be to stage an encounter, but just to ratchet up realism; things like long uninhabited bedrooms and kitchens fallen into disrepair. Good idea, or bad idea?
#2 senorocho Feb 03, 2009 19:00:13	It can work, but don't go overboard on the room descriptions or you can definitely run into time constraints on the game. An easy measurement would be to imagine the party going through your dungeon, and how interesting/boring it is- how many empty rooms would you watch a group of people explore in a movie? :P It might be best to have SOMETHING interesting about the rooms- secret doors, puzzles, hidden valuables...
#3 lulzapalooza Feb 03, 2009 19:03:06	So, it should be interesting as long as there's something to gain in each room?
#4 lord_shonus Feb 04, 2009 0:07:37	I'd suggest reading the chapters on Moria in Fellowship Of The Ring (Lord of The Rings Book 1) and watching that same part of the movie for a look at this. If you can get ahold of the audiobook, that would be even better. I once ran a dungeon where three floors were nearly "empty" and it worked fine.
#5 mellored Feb 04, 2009 3:59:58	I've run empty rooms plenty of times. It give RP opportunities. My party usualy does somethign with the rooms, like i had someone who was playing an clean freak re-organize a tool shed. Just keep the descriptions short and give the players a chance to imagine something. "you walk into a kitchen, it hasn't been used for a long time" "you walk into a storage room, there are cups and siverware on the shelves" ect...
#6 DevoDog Feb 04, 2009 8:15:41	I would be cautious about this....especially if your DMing style includes lots of puzzles, investigations, riddles, etc. "Empty" rooms will make it more difficult for players to figure out what's important to advancing the adventure/story and what isn't. The players could get very frustrated with this.
#7 yellowdingo Feb 04, 2009 13:10:30	EVERY DUNGEON IS A DEATHTRAP Only a Suicidal Idiot would go into a Dungeon. Most D&D Dungeons fail on the grounds that if you apply real world subsidence rules, the damn things would have caved in during construction. 100% Subsidence: Width of Cave/Cover depth=1.1-1.4 10% Subsidence: Width of Cave/Cover Depth=0.1-0.5 The Range depends on the Rocktype. The High Thresholds are more likely Granite, midway is Sandstone and Limestone, while the low end of the scale is Dirt/Gravel. That means that a cave with a 50' cross section sitting below 20' of rock has a value of 2.5 (well inexcess of 100% Subsidence): Such a cave began to transfer the effects of subsidence to the surface back at 10% so the ground will be sagging and unless this chamber is propped up with columns it will collapse like a sinkhole. Likewise a 10' wide tunnel below 20' of rock has a value of 0.5 (at the upper limit of 10% subsidence). Here the stress of failure has reached the surface. Fine cracks that will probably not be visible at the surface due to topsoil. REDUCING SUBSIDENCE TO 10% Column Width= 0.12 x cover depth Goaf (space between columns) width = 0.6 x cover depth What does it mean? Our 50' cross-section cave above can be reduced to a subsidence of 10% by including at time of construction columns to support the ceiling. Column Width: 0.12 x 20' = 2.4' Column Spacing: 0.6 x 20' = 12' That is a Chamber supported by 2.4' wide columns spaced 12' apart. Inflict some damage to those columns (beyond the damage inflicted by the existing subsidence) and the entire Dungeon will have to be tested (%percentage roll for each chamber and corridor) as to whether it has collapsed with the mountain coming down on the Adventurers. SUBSIDENCE AT THE SURFACE When Subsidence exceeds 10% it begins to show at the surface. To determine the Surface Area Affected by Subsidence, you must take a 35 degree angle from the bottom of the workings edge. THis means that even Rock that doesnt overlap a collapsed/failing Cave will be showing failure. The Actual depth of collapse is measured by: Subsidence= 0.8 x cave height So our 50' cross section cave with its 15' high chamber will if and when it collapses create a 12' deep sinkhole with signs of subsidence out to (SIN 35 degrees x 35')= 20' beyond the area of the cave (effectively the 50' cave left a hole 90' across - slopping down into a 12' deep, 50' wide pit).
#8 Vatras Feb 04, 2009 13:34:01	You can have many empty rooms, but don't try and go through every one in detail, when the PCs pass it or enter. Having many rooms without anything can be used as a device even, establishing a routine, which lulls the PCs. It is difficult to achieve, though, without boring everyone (I did it once, but not by planning, it was the mood of the evening). When PCs wander through mostly empty levels, mapping them (often without much detail), you can find ways to have them re-visit the place under different circumstances. Time- or planeshifts can fill the halls with something which was not there when they walked the place the first time. Doing that can give an empty dungeon meaning afterwards.
#9 perseus_stoned Feb 05, 2009 16:53:18	Most D&D Dungeons fail on the grounds that if you apply real world subsidence rules, the damn things would have caved in during construction. Its odd you acknowledge that reality has no place in a fantasy game, but then go on to show the technical jargon to disprove such things in our realm of physics. If it was me, I'd just go after magic and dragons, but hey, you really want to disprove the DnD world go straight for the dungeons.