Inquisitor test 1

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

yt3800

Nov 25, 2008 7:13:37
Hey, I've been working on this class for a while and want to know what all of you think. It's still very much a work in progress (it only goes up to third level) so please lay down some helpful criticism. Thanks.

Inquisitor
“I’m nothing but an ordinary citizen.”

CLASS TRAITS
Role: Controller. You use your fists, knees, feet,
and whatever you can find to impede
the enemy, and give your allies an edge.
Power Source: Martial. You have learned that
your body is your only real defense. Let
others play with their swords and magic, and
at the end of the day you’ll be the
one burying them.
Key Abilities: Dexterity, Strength, Wisdom

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Unarmed, improvised
Bonus to Defense: +2 Armor Class, +2 Reflex

Hit Points at First Level: 12 + Constitution
score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution
Modifier

Trained Skills: Perception. From the class skills
list below choose three more class skills
at first level.
Class Skills: Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis),
Insight (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise
(Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Thievery (Dex),

Build Options:
Class Features: Steel Fists, Tough Catch,
Skirmisher,

Clocked in secrets, and defended by lies, the inquisitor is a “master citizen”, a commoner who has gained, through years of survival in the urban jungle, uncommon abilities and an deep lust for truth. He disdains using normal weapons as he is not a “solder” and wishes to keep his alibi of normality intact. He searches the world for philosophies and theologies that he could agree with and, once found, he guards his choice against any and all who would threaten it.
As an inquisitor, you might be a freelance hunter of heretics, or a wanderer through various belief systems, constantly looking for the truth. You could be an assassin for a philological organization, or a common blacksmith working the fires of your smithy by day, and heading a demon cult by night.

CREATING A IQUISITOR
Inquisitors depend on Dexterity, Strength, and Wisdom for most of their powers. Charisma is also useful since two of their class skills need it.

IQUISITOR CLASS FEATURES
All inquisitors share these class features.

STEEL FISTS
Inquisitors use a d6 for damage rolls with unarmed strikes, and inquisitors gain a +3 bonus to attack rolls.

TOUGH CHATCH
Enemies have to reroll attacks of opportunity that have hit the inquisitor.

SKIRMISHER
Inquisitors can spilt their move action before and after a standard action



INQUISITOR POWERS
Your powers are powers are used to weaken the enemy and empower you with special benefits. Most of your powers make use of your Strength and Dexterity modifier.

LEVEL 1 AT-WILL POWERS
Hindering Strike
A well-timed blow to the shins or ankles severely hampers a foe’s movement.
At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Hit: Strength modifier damage and the target is slowed (save ends).

Kick Back
With a fierce kick you push a enemy away.
At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Hit: Strength modifier damage and push target back a square.

Head Shot
A slap to the back of your enemies head leaves him reeling.
At-Will*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Will
Hit: Target takes strength damage and is dazed (save ends).


Chest Kick
A blow to the chest can really knock it out of you.
At-Will*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude
Hit: target takes dexterity modifier damage and loses his next move action.

LEVEL 1 ENCOUNTER POWERS
Daft Position
You frustrate your foe to no end as you lightly dance around him, keeping him unaware of the your ally behind him.
Encounter*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Will
Hit: Shift one square, target takes strength damage and an ally of your choice gets combat advantage over your target until your next turn.

LEVEL 1 DAILY POWERS
Flurry of Blows
Kicking, punching, hitting, smacking, anything to drop your foes.
Daily*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: Close burst
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflexx
Hit: 1 [w] damage and targets are knocked prone.

LEVEL 2 UTILITY POWERS
Yield Ground
Get hit once. You know it’s time to run.
Encounter*Martial, Weapon
Immediate Reaction Personal
Trigger: An enemy damages you with a melee weapon
Effect: You can shift a number of squares equal to your wisdom modifier, and gain +2 to all defenses until next turn.
Questioning
Sometimes jut yelling isn’t enough.
At-Will*Martial
30 Minutes Martial
Requirement: A helpless victim.
Effect: Add strength modifier to intimidate checks made to interrogate.

LEVEL 3 ENCOUNTER POWERS
Bleeding Wound
It hurts, but then again you told them it would.
Encounter*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: Close Burst
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: [W] + each target takes 7 points of ongoing damage (save ends).

Slip Through Guard
Under the hole, past the shield and...
Encounter*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Target: One or two creatures
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: [W] + targets take -5 to armor class for next turn.
#2

demiteddybear

Nov 25, 2008 7:38:49
Don't you want to put this in the homebrew section?

Ok now for the class... tough catch, I think you should add that when they re-roll they have to take the lower dice roll otherwise you're not always making it better for yourself.

So this guy is going to be in the thick of action but hes also the controller. So he needs some way to defend against his AC, whcih you have kind of done with a combination of tough catch and the ability to move attack move, but I'm just wondering if you're intending on adding anything else to help his defence, since unlike the wizard he doesn't have the benefit of range to protect him from melee attacks.

So far the powers look good for a controller, the effects are well done for a controller. Thats all I have to say for now
#3

nezumi45

Nov 25, 2008 7:57:51
hmmm Inquisitor unsure about the name to start with not sure if it captures your idea i think that may need a little work but enough with fluff

CLASS TRAITS
Role: Controller. You use your fists, knees, feet,
and whatever you can find to impede
the enemy, and give your allies an edge.
Power Source: Martial. You have learned that
your body is your only real defense. Let
others play with their swords and magic, and
at the end of the day you’ll be the
one burying them.
Key Abilities: Dexterity, Strength, Wisdom

And

Clocked in secrets, and defended by lies, the inquisitor is a “master citizen”, a commoner who has gained, through years of survival in the urban jungle, uncommon abilities and an deep lust for truth. He disdains using normal weapons as he is not a “solder” and wishes to keep his alibi of normality intact. He searches the world for philosophies and theologies that he could agree with and, once found, he guards his choice against any and all who would threaten it.
As an inquisitor, you might be a freelance hunter of heretics, or a wanderer through various belief systems, constantly looking for the truth. You could be an assassin for a philological organization, or a common blacksmith working the fires of your smithy by day, and heading a demon cult by night.

these dont match up at all i am afraid ,your body is your defense okay granted however the description given has more to with int cha . you want to stay locked in your deception those are social abilities and have little to do with your physical abilities . You are describing mental discipline therefore your characters abilities do not seem to work . i dont think controller siuts your class at all. i think that your character has the elements of a spy mixed with a narrow sighted beleief system so it most likely he removes threats quietly and efficently keeping his "Ordinary citizen" alias secure . I would therefore design powers that would inculde attacks with disabilling effects immobilize , weaken , stun, KO and powers using insight, deception and perception

some of your existing powers do this exactly but the close burst ones are there just to fufill this controller role. these need to be reworked to be honest .less area more dmg my opinion

now i know this seems like heavy criticism but i like your class motivation he does strike me as a witchfinder general type characteror a monk witch can be a great background and allows good development . i would however reconsider his party role but you have some good ideas , just keep working on it
#4

yt3800

Nov 25, 2008 15:39:26
As long as it's helpful I'm all for harsh criticism.

The word "inquisitor" as stated in dictionary.com is:
1. a person who makes an inquisition.
2. a questioner, esp. an unduly curious or harsh one.
3. a person who investigates in an official capacity.
4. a member of the Inquisition.

Only number 4 has anything to do with religion, all a inquisition is is "an official investigation, esp. one of a political or religious nature, characterized by lack of regard for individual rights, prejudice on the part of the examiners, and recklessly cruel punishments." (again dictionary.com) In other words the name inquisitor is quite well suited to this class.

Granted though the name could be quite confusing. I've had a real trouble finding one that would work. To me a monk is a bookworm in a hole, and calling my class a "martial artist" is just too cheesy (spy's the same way). As to the change in role, I'm just not convinced. I think of this class as a peasant with abnormal abilities, that have nothing to do with magic, or dealing extreme amounts of damage. Abilities that hinder the enemy. What better role would cover this category than the controller? Good points about the powers, I'll try to make them fit more class and less the role, however I will not be adding attacks that deal more damage. That is the role of the defenders and strikers. And yes, I'll try to add more defense helpers although I already gave him a +2 to ac at first level. Do you think that's to good? I've never seen it done before so I'm not sure. Finally I would like to give this class charisma as one of its main skills but strength is used for almost all of his powers. Should I just switch strength out for dexterity with these powers?

ps: this is my first class I've ever made, so if any of my arguments don't sit well with you just give me a hard push and I'll probably end up doing what you say.
#5

nezumi45

Nov 26, 2008 3:03:31
okay i will agree on the name issue to a certain degree , its never easy to find an exact description that fits. Hmmm so you want a peasant with abnormal abilities and a stoic mentality. I think you may have misunderstood by remarks on your class having a narrow minded belief system, this would not just inculde religion , your class is described as having a deep lust for truth and having found this holds on dearly to this and guards against threats to this.
okay so he has truths that give him purpose and direction but the powers need to reflect this more so as a controller. I think cha should be utilised more as your class has strength of character even more so than of body
why not use his charisma or willpower to use powers that cause fear or even manipulate
i think your class has some good potienal and i really do like the concept but i would probably go with it as a seeker of truths who can utilise his words and body to impact upon his world rather than those who have not seen reason and rely on steel and magics

ps please add social based utility powers

ps ps i am not being overcritical i hope as i like the class and may use it soon
#6

pheonixiv

Nov 26, 2008 4:23:40
The whole "I'm a commoner with super secret hidden weapons\abilities" is more along the lines of a 'real world' ninja than an Inquisitor :P


Tough catch is probably a bit on the powerful side. I'd change it to a once per round ability or make it add Wis or Dex mod to all defences against OA's.


You've also listed proficiency in Unarmed and Improvised weapons, which don't exist. I'd suggest giving them proficiency with Daggers and then saying they do 1d6 with their fists at a +3 prof bonus, and when using improvised weapons do 1d8 damage with a +2 prof bonus one-handed, and 1d12 with a +2 prof bonus two-handed.


Upside is they can snag weapons from anywhere, downside is that as they're improv weapons rather than weapon groups so you can't get weapon feats.



Then your only issue is magic stuff, so give them the ability to add a +1 enhancement bonus to improvised weapons and fists at level 3, a +2 at level 8, +3 at 13, +4 at 18, +5 at 23 and +6 at 28.

Upside; free magic weapons, downside; you get them later than normal and you can only get enhancement bonuses.



And of course you can then go wild by letting them do silly things like have an Epic path that allows them to apply other magic item effects (flaming etc) to their fists and improv weapons. But that's just my mind running with the concept.



Some of the powers are also a bit weak, Kick Back should definitely be 1[W] + Str mod damage and push the target a number of squares equal to Dex or Wis. Remember Wizards have Thunderwave.

I'd also make Hindering Strike vs Reflex so Inquisitors have At-Wills that target all three non AC defences.
#7

yt3800

Nov 26, 2008 6:40:42
More social powers sounds great. The only reason I haven't done that, is when looking at the other classes, it seems that they have almost no social based powers. Maybe that's just me, though I like the idea anyway. I'm also going to swap strength for charisma and have all the former strength powers be dexterity based.
Although the inquisitor's (any ideas for a new name would be welcome) Tough Catch ability is strong it's very necessary. This class is going to be constantly running in and out of melee and thus generating an abnormal about of AOs. I've play tested it out, and Tough Catch seems to work very well, he still gets hit occasionally because, even with the +2 bonus to ac, his armor class is never that high. I will be using your ideas about the fists though, so thanks.

Again, criticism is great, lay it on me, anything you don't like you can say.
#8

imperator279

Nov 26, 2008 7:19:51
I think you really need to differentiate between whether or not you want an 'Inquisitor' or a 'modern ninja' as far as your concept goes...

It sounds like you've made more of a controller-style monk/martial artist but flavored him a completely different character.

Honestly, a cleric with some homebrew utility powers could certainly work well as an Inquisitor on his own, especially a Devoted Cleric.

Conducting an Inquistion requires first and foremost wisdom (insight, perception) followed by Charisma (force of personality is what convinces the guy to spill the beans whether it be through diplomacy or intimidate, and keeping up the "I'm a big nobody here" disguise would require a good bluff check). Intelligence wouldn't be a bad bet for knowledge-related skills (knowing the enemy before interrogating it is critical...).

I don't know, it almost feels like you could have a Wis/Cha Inquisitor and/or a Str/Wis Inquisitor (the second one more up in your face and ready to conduct the inquisition by face smashing, etc.).

Honestly, an Inquisitor is probably some kind of leader backed by military forces conducting hardcore truth-seeking (or answer-seeking, don't know if every inquisitor ever sought the truth, you know) as opposed to a secret spy/martial artist/sherlock holmes.

Hey, I really, really like the concept of a guy who can totally blend in by not having a drop of magic item on him, but nevertheless it feels like you've got a blended concept.

That's my two cents...
#9

yt3800

Nov 26, 2008 7:37:51
... And they're worth a lot. I know right now this guy's two things at once, but I'm working on it. Here's the revision I made using your comments, and I know he's still very much a modern ninja but again, I'm working on it. (I didn't change the name throughout the whole thing cause I'd rather hear what you say before I go through all that work.)

Thanks for all your help thus far.

Philosopher
“I’m nothing but an ordinary citizen.”

CLASS TRAITS
Role: Controller. You use your fists, knees, feet,
words and whatever you can find to
impede the enemy, and protect your chosen
ideology.
Power Source: Martial. You have learned that
your body and mind are your only real
defense.
Key Abilities: Dexterity, Charisma, Wisdom

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Unarmed, improvised
Bonus to Defense: +2 Armor Class, +2 Reflex

Hit Points at First Level: 12 + Constitution
score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution
Modifier

Trained Skills: Perception. From the class skills
list below choose three more class skills
at first level.
Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Heal (Wis),
Insight (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise
(Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Thievery (Dex),

Build Options:
Class Features: Steel Fists, Tough Catch,
Skirmisher,

Clocked in secrets, and defended by lies, the inquisitor is a “master citizen”, a commoner who has gained, through years of survival in the urban jungle, uncommon abilities and a deep lust for truth. He disdains using normal weapons as he is not a “solder” and wishes to keep his alibi of normality intact. He searches the world for philosophies and theologies that he could agree with and, once found, he guards his choice against any and all who would threaten it.
As an inquisitor, you might be a freelance hunter of heretics, or a wanderer through various belief systems, constantly looking for the truth. You could be an assassin for a philological organization, or a common blacksmith working the fires of your smithy by day, and heading a demon cult by night.

CREATING A IQUISITOR
Inquisitors depend on Dexterity, Charisma, and Wisdom for most of their powers.

IQUISITOR CLASS FEATURES
All inquisitors share these class features.

STEEL FISTS
Inquisitors gain a +3 bonus to attack rolls with improvised weapons or weapons from the unarmed weapon group proficiency bonus, and roll 1d6 for unarmed attacks, roll 1d8 damage for improvised weapons for one-handed weapons, and 1d12 for two-handed weapons.

TOUGH CHATCH
Enemies have to reroll attacks of opportunity that have hit the inquisitor. They must use the lower roll.

SKIRMISHER
Inquisitors can spilt their move action before and after a standard action

INQUISITOR POWERS
Your powers are powers are used to weaken the enemy and empower you with special benefits. Most of your powers make use of your Strength and Dexterity modifier.

LEVEL 1 AT-WILL POWERS
Hindering Strike
A well-timed blow to the shins or ankles severely hampers a foe’s movement.
At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Will
Hit: Dexterity modifier damage and the target is slowed (save ends).

Kick Back
With a fierce kick you push a enemy away.
At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude
Hit: Strength modifier damage and push target back a square.

Head Shot
A slap to the back of your enemies head leaves him reeling.
At-Will*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Will
Hit: Target takes dexterity modifier damage and has Forced Combat Advantage (save ends).

Chest Kick
A blow to the chest can really knock it out of you.
At-Will*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude
Hit: target takes dexterity modifier damage and falls prone.

LEVEL 1 ENCOUNTER POWERS
Intimidate
You used your words and body to intimidate an enemy keeping him away from your allies.
Encounter*Martial, Weapon
Encounter Action Range, Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: Target loses his standard action next turn.

Daft Position
You frustrate your foe to no end as you lightly dance around him, keeping him unaware of the your ally behind him.
Encounter*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Will
Hit: 1[W] + dexterity and an ally of your choice gets combat advantage over your target until the start of your next turn.
Effect: Before your attack you can shift one square.

LEVEL 1 DAILY POWERS
Flurry of Blows
Kicking, punching, hitting, smacking, anything to drop your foes.
Daily*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: Each enemy in range.
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 1 [w] damage and targets are dazed (save ends).

LEVEL 2 UTILITY POWERS
Yield Ground
Get hit once. You know it’s time to run.
Encounter*Martial, Weapon
Immediate Reaction Personal
Trigger: An enemy damages you with a melee weapon
Effect: You can shift a number of squares equal to your wisdom modifier, and gain +2 to all defenses until next turn.

Random Knowledge
You’ve learned something from surviving in the urban jungle for this long.
Daily*Martial, Weapon
Immediate Reaction Personal
Trigger: An skill check is required using
one of your untrained skills.
Effect: You can choose for that one skill check roll to act as if you are trained in that skill.

Questioning
Sometimes jut yelling isn’t enough.
At-Will*Martial
30 Minutes Martial
Requirement: A helpless victim.
Effect: Add [w] damage modifier to intimidate checks made to interrogate.

LEVEL 3 ENCOUNTER POWERS
Bleeding Wound
It hurts, but then again you told them it would.
Encounter*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding an improvised weapon or making an unarmed attack.
Target: Each enemy in range.
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: [W] + each target takes 7 points of ongoing damage (save ends).



Slip Through Guard
Under the hole, past the shield and...
Encounter*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee, Weapon
Target: One or two creatures
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: [W] + targets grant Combat Advantage and take a penalty to their armor class equal to your wisdom modifier until the start of your next turn.

Lies and Anger
You know you really should watch out for the fighter behind you… OK I lied.
Encounter*Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Ranged, Weapon
Target: One to two enemies
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: Allies near the targets get to make an attack of opportunity on one of the targets near them.
#10

pheonixiv

Nov 26, 2008 17:35:58
If you're going to give them a +3 bonus for two-handed improv weapons you need to drop the damage die down to 1d10.

You still also need a way for him to get enhancement bonuses to his attacks.