It's a Spell, Not a Grenade - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

It's a Spell, Not a Grenade

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tequila_sunrise
Mar 03, 2009 23:40:47 Am I the only DM who's okay with players shrinking their burst and blast powers on the fly? I allowed this in 3e too, but just recently realized it might not be common practice. It's not like area damage powers can't use a boost in versatility, or that they can't get better ally protection like Spell Accuracy. (Or Mastery of Shaping for those 3e viewers.)

So how about it, do other DMs allow this?

TS
#2
evil_weevil
Mar 04, 2009 2:43:32 In 3.0 I had a DM that allowed that provided you took the shape feat, and overall it worked out fine. To balance something like that out just make it a feat. I will say this though, that group was a bunch of power-gamers, and that ability in 3.x is very powerful.
#3
BilopTheFleshwarper
Mar 04, 2009 6:07:31 The biggest problem with letting people shrink Bursts and Blasts is that they can use that to avoid hurting their team(not normally a good thing), whoch is one of the things big area effects do. If it was really so important, make it a Paragon feat(which is where things like this start to pop up) for each one, bursts and blasts.
#4
tequila_sunrise
Mar 05, 2009 1:41:50 I'd rather just make it a universal trait of AoE powers.
#5
bartleby42
Mar 05, 2009 1:53:49 I can understand the thought "well if they didn't want it to be a big they wouldn't of put as much oomph into it" but I think you should have a drawback that follows the same logic. For every square you shrink you blast you lose 1/2 of the damage. i.e. Blast 3 going to blast 2 does 1/2 damage. Burst 3 to burst 1 does 1/4 damage.

Otherwise it's giving a huge buff to wizards and taking away one of the neatest features of Cleric AoEs.
#6
eldritch_lord
Mar 05, 2009 10:54:04
Otherwise it's giving a huge buff to wizards and taking away one of the neatest features of Cleric AoEs.

Well, as wizards are Controllers and clerics only minor in Controller, I wouldn't necessarily consider it a bad thing for wizards to be better at it than clerics.
#7
Dark_Stryke
Mar 05, 2009 18:30:57 Could I ask you to edit out the bit about "video game prop..."? It's passive-aggressive and kind of irks me, especially since it's something that was possible to do in 3.5 (so it's not like it's some newfangled 4E videogame demonic roleplay-crushing power). Naturally I would edit this as well for continuity purposes.

Giving wizards the ability to shrink blasts and bursts does give them a power boost, but I don't think it would necessarily make them overpowered. If anything, you could make it into a feat.

Shrink Spell
Prerequisite: Arcane class
Benefit: When using a blast or burst power from an arcane class, you may decrease the blast or burst size by 1, to a minimum of 1.

You could get rid of the "minimum of 1" thing if you want it to be possible to shrink bursts below a 3x3 square. A "burst 0" just seems kind of weird to me, though.
#8
tequila_sunrise
Mar 05, 2009 18:55:52
Could I ask you to edit out the bit about "video game prop..."? It's passive-aggressive and kind of irks me, especially since it's something that was possible to do in 3.5 (so it's not like it's some newfangled 4E videogame demonic roleplay-crushing power). Naturally I would edit this as well for continuity purposes.

Don't edit your post; if you speak out against something that offends you, it looks wishy-washy to take it back after it gets fixed. Anyway, I included that little video game reference because I knew that a lot of posters would have an impulse to argue with me on the basis of "this is a real rpg, not WoW where spells don't hit allies".

TS
#9
Dark_Stryke
Mar 06, 2009 0:10:45 Yeah... I think that's called 'baiting'. :P

Regardless, thanks for editing.

I realized I never specifically answered your original question so: No, I don't allow it, but only because it has yet to come up. My party doesn't have a wizard, but if someone was interested in reducing the size of their bursts/blasts, I would probably introduce a heroic tier feat like the one I suggested in my previous post. That way, the character gives up something for the new ability. I think shrinking spells is worth a feat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tequila_sunrise Mar 03, 2009 23:40:47	Am I the only DM who's okay with players shrinking their burst and blast powers on the fly? I allowed this in 3e too, but just recently realized it might not be common practice. It's not like area damage powers can't use a boost in versatility, or that they can't get better ally protection like Spell Accuracy. (Or Mastery of Shaping for those 3e viewers.) So how about it, do other DMs allow this? TS
#2 evil_weevil Mar 04, 2009 2:43:32	In 3.0 I had a DM that allowed that provided you took the shape feat, and overall it worked out fine. To balance something like that out just make it a feat. I will say this though, that group was a bunch of power-gamers, and that ability in 3.x is very powerful.
#3 BilopTheFleshwarper Mar 04, 2009 6:07:31	The biggest problem with letting people shrink Bursts and Blasts is that they can use that to avoid hurting their team(not normally a good thing), whoch is one of the things big area effects do. If it was really so important, make it a Paragon feat(which is where things like this start to pop up) for each one, bursts and blasts.
#4 tequila_sunrise Mar 05, 2009 1:41:50	I'd rather just make it a universal trait of AoE powers.
#5 bartleby42 Mar 05, 2009 1:53:49	I can understand the thought "well if they didn't want it to be a big they wouldn't of put as much oomph into it" but I think you should have a drawback that follows the same logic. For every square you shrink you blast you lose 1/2 of the damage. i.e. Blast 3 going to blast 2 does 1/2 damage. Burst 3 to burst 1 does 1/4 damage. Otherwise it's giving a huge buff to wizards and taking away one of the neatest features of Cleric AoEs.
#6 eldritch_lord Mar 05, 2009 10:54:04	Otherwise it's giving a huge buff to wizards and taking away one of the neatest features of Cleric AoEs. Well, as wizards are Controllers and clerics only minor in Controller, I wouldn't necessarily consider it a bad thing for wizards to be better at it than clerics.
#7 Dark_Stryke Mar 05, 2009 18:30:57	Could I ask you to edit out the bit about "video game prop..."? It's passive-aggressive and kind of irks me, especially since it's something that was possible to do in 3.5 (so it's not like it's some newfangled 4E videogame demonic roleplay-crushing power). Naturally I would edit this as well for continuity purposes. Giving wizards the ability to shrink blasts and bursts does give them a power boost, but I don't think it would necessarily make them overpowered. If anything, you could make it into a feat. Shrink Spell Prerequisite: Arcane class Benefit: When using a blast or burst power from an arcane class, you may decrease the blast or burst size by 1, to a minimum of 1. You could get rid of the "minimum of 1" thing if you want it to be possible to shrink bursts below a 3x3 square. A "burst 0" just seems kind of weird to me, though.
#8 tequila_sunrise Mar 05, 2009 18:55:52	Could I ask you to edit out the bit about "video game prop..."? It's passive-aggressive and kind of irks me, especially since it's something that was possible to do in 3.5 (so it's not like it's some newfangled 4E videogame demonic roleplay-crushing power). Naturally I would edit this as well for continuity purposes. Don't edit your post; if you speak out against something that offends you, it looks wishy-washy to take it back after it gets fixed. Anyway, I included that little video game reference because I knew that a lot of posters would have an impulse to argue with me on the basis of "this is a real rpg, not WoW where spells don't hit allies". TS
#9 Dark_Stryke Mar 06, 2009 0:10:45	Yeah... I think that's called 'baiting'. :P Regardless, thanks for editing. I realized I never specifically answered your original question so: No, I don't allow it, but only because it has yet to come up. My party doesn't have a wizard, but if someone was interested in reducing the size of their bursts/blasts, I would probably introduce a heroic tier feat like the one I suggested in my previous post. That way, the character gives up something for the new ability. I think shrinking spells is worth a feat.