Judoka: The art of Grappling and Throwing - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Judoka: The art of Grappling and Throwing

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bathedinshadows
May 16, 2012 3:21:09 So I want to make a character who essentially does Judo. No weapons, only cloth armor and such. So far not much luck although Brawler is coming close.

My DM has offered me the oppurtunity to create my own class from scratch in this respect which could be interesting and unsure how to. It would be easy to just throw in some massive hitting throws that nerf all comers but that would break the game and ruin the fun. So I will use this to show you all how I am doing and hopefully get it pulled apart and put back together as I go. If it is supposed to be done in another forum please tell me nicely so I don't react unkindly.

I have a few ideas so far:

Tomae Nage: The classic foot in the hip and over the head throw. I originally saw this as a utility power which is activated on a charge targeting you. But as a utility it could be too strong (not even sure if nerfing it to encounter would be suitable). Essentially it would go like this:
You are targeted by a charge attack: Immediate Interrupt: You throw the enemy in a continuing direction a distance equal to half the squares they have travelled to charge you (ie: He charges 4 squares, you throw him 2. Rounded down) Enemy is knocked prone and takes 1d6-8 (not sure which) + strength modifier damage per square travelled. Any creature (friend or foe) in the path of the throw is pushed 1 square and takes force damage equal to your strength modifier (yes it stacks if they are adjacent to you and you throw the charging enemy 2 squares then the adjacent monster is pushed takes damage, pushed again takes damage and pushed again thus being pushed 2 squares and takes 2x your strength modifier damage) if enemy hits a solid object (wall, statue, door etc) takes additional 1d* damage (as above)

Juji Gatame: The classic arm bar. This is an encounter power I thought of.
You make a grab attack against an adjacent enemy: Hit: The enemy takes 1d10 + strength modifier damage. The enemy is immobilised and has neither hand free. You are both prone. Save ends. For each unsuccessful save enemy takes 1d6 and a -2 to further saves (stacks). 3 failed saves and the enemy is knocked unconcious. Sustain minor: Enemy takes 1d10 damage.

Ippon Seionage: Over the shoulder throw.
Simple first attack you learn. Does minimal damage and no grabbing.

I want to look into combinations as well at some point. Ie: Using Ippon Seionage into Juji Gatame. This could be feat, class ability or some such.

Anyway a working idea that may or may not work. thanks for looking anyway and giving some advice and criticism.

Thanks
#2
WhisperMagellan
May 16, 2012 3:50:21 Have you looked at the Monk character? That is pretty much D&D's attempt to cover Martial Arts.

Grappling mechanics have long been the bane of RPGs.

Other than that, how about an at-will that grabs&prones targets (grapple and pin attack), or slides & save or prone (the shoulder throw). Encounter power is a throw that prones and dazes (hard throw). Or an encounter that lets you shift your speed and make a basic attack for no damage that knocks everyone you hit prone?
Also an encounter disarm attack (utility?). Shift (speed) out of harm move utility. Later get a climb utility at-will to bounce from side to side up walls.
Sort of a Martial Controller: not much damage, but lots of conditions.

Good luck in your pursuit of the Gentle Way.

Do you want a Real martial artist, or a movie-fluff martial artist? Butt-kicker, or spiritual guardian? Lo-Wang or Qui-chin Kane? Bruce Lee, Mr Miagi, or Jackie Chan?
#3
bathedinshadows
May 16, 2012 3:52:01 Attacks:

Saved
#4
bathedinshadows
May 16, 2012 3:52:26 Utilities:

Saved:
#5
bathedinshadows
May 16, 2012 3:52:52 Feats:

Saved
#6
bathedinshadows
May 16, 2012 3:53:18 Other:

Saved:
#7
bathedinshadows
May 16, 2012 4:01:20
Have you looked at the Monk character? That is pretty much D&D's attempt to cover Martial Arts.

Grappling mechanics have long been the bane of RPGs.

Other than that, how about an at-will that grabs&prones targets (grapple and pin attack), or slides & save or prone (the shoulder throw). Encounter power is a throw that prones and dazes (hard throw). Or an encounter that lets you shift your speed and make a basic attack for no damage that knocks everyone you hit prone?
Also an encounter disarm attack (utility?). Shift (speed) out of harm move utility. Later get a climb utility at-will to bounce from side to side up walls.
Sort of a Martial Controller: not much damage, but lots of conditions.

Good luck in your pursuit of the Gentle Way.

Do you want a Real martial artist, or a movie-fluff martial artist? Butt-kicker, or spiritual guardian? Lo-Wang or Qui-chin Kane? Bruce Lee, Mr Miagi, or Jackie Chan?

Thanks for your support will be getting onto it straight away as I want to see how far I can make this work. I will be looking at using the Monk as the base class and then developing a way from that forward.

Basically I like the ground and pound idea and although some things you fight aren't as easy to grasp that would be displayed by their defences not by me going, oh a cube of glob I can't attack that. as has been mentioned when I put this idea forward before.

Thanks

#8
WhisperMagellan
May 16, 2012 4:06:18 If you are really going to build the class from scratch, look at the classes that have already been built, and pirate from them. No sense re-inventing the wheel.

I build a lot of custom monsters, but whenever possible I use a stock one as a base.

Take a look at the fighter (brawler build) as well.
Again, where to look depends on the flavor you want.

Oh, and that doesn't even mention the 4th or 4E foundation you want.
#9
bathedinshadows
May 16, 2012 4:22:09 See that is where I get a little lost 4th vs 4e but I am going for 4e. I am working with the Brawler build now to get as close as I can to what I want but I like the Monk as a base line class and then Judoka as a pathway. Although it will be its own class in my mind it would greatly help me to have that base part done. Monks already have Unarmored Defense to start with and use Dex which is my idea for a base stat as well, although I am tossing up two pathways fromt here either kicker being Wisdom or Strength (the battle of muscle vs mind which is better) I suppose this will take me while but it is fun to try this and will give me a better understanding of game mechanics anyway. the thing is this is my first adventure in about 3 years when I haven't been the dm so I want something that is mine... I suppose it is ego but hey I want something I haven't seen yet.
#10
svendj
May 16, 2012 5:30:41 My first piece of advice would be not to make the powers overly complicated. Just push + prone is enough to simulate a throw. A grab + prone with a Sustain Standard effect simulates the arm bar. Although it's more realistic, the powers get way more confusing when you hang bells and whistles on them like "push half the squares they have travelled to charge you".

Second would be to take a look at your earlier thread in CharOp, where I've posted some Fighter powers that simulate martial arts perfectly.

You should probably put the Brawler Style class features onto a Monk chassis to make it all work out mechanically. Also ask your DM to let you qualify for Brawler Fighter feats like Inescapable Hold and Pin down.

Good luck! It's easiest for us to give you feedback if you present the whole package at once, instead of piecemeal.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bathedinshadows May 16, 2012 3:21:09	So I want to make a character who essentially does Judo. No weapons, only cloth armor and such. So far not much luck although Brawler is coming close. My DM has offered me the oppurtunity to create my own class from scratch in this respect which could be interesting and unsure how to. It would be easy to just throw in some massive hitting throws that nerf all comers but that would break the game and ruin the fun. So I will use this to show you all how I am doing and hopefully get it pulled apart and put back together as I go. If it is supposed to be done in another forum please tell me nicely so I don't react unkindly. I have a few ideas so far: Tomae Nage: The classic foot in the hip and over the head throw. I originally saw this as a utility power which is activated on a charge targeting you. But as a utility it could be too strong (not even sure if nerfing it to encounter would be suitable). Essentially it would go like this: You are targeted by a charge attack: Immediate Interrupt: You throw the enemy in a continuing direction a distance equal to half the squares they have travelled to charge you (ie: He charges 4 squares, you throw him 2. Rounded down) Enemy is knocked prone and takes 1d6-8 (not sure which) + strength modifier damage per square travelled. Any creature (friend or foe) in the path of the throw is pushed 1 square and takes force damage equal to your strength modifier (yes it stacks if they are adjacent to you and you throw the charging enemy 2 squares then the adjacent monster is pushed takes damage, pushed again takes damage and pushed again thus being pushed 2 squares and takes 2x your strength modifier damage) if enemy hits a solid object (wall, statue, door etc) takes additional 1d damage* (as above) Juji Gatame: The classic arm bar. This is an encounter power I thought of. You make a grab attack against an adjacent enemy: Hit: The enemy takes 1d10 + strength modifier damage. The enemy is immobilised and has neither hand free. You are both prone. Save ends. For each unsuccessful save enemy takes 1d6 and a -2 to further saves (stacks). 3 failed saves and the enemy is knocked unconcious. Sustain minor: Enemy takes 1d10 damage. Ippon Seionage: Over the shoulder throw. Simple first attack you learn. Does minimal damage and no grabbing. I want to look into combinations as well at some point. Ie: Using Ippon Seionage into Juji Gatame. This could be feat, class ability or some such. Anyway a working idea that may or may not work. thanks for looking anyway and giving some advice and criticism. Thanks
#2 WhisperMagellan May 16, 2012 3:50:21	Have you looked at the Monk character? That is pretty much D&D's attempt to cover Martial Arts. Grappling mechanics have long been the bane of RPGs. Other than that, how about an at-will that grabs&prones targets (grapple and pin attack), or slides & save or prone (the shoulder throw). Encounter power is a throw that prones and dazes (hard throw). Or an encounter that lets you shift your speed and make a basic attack for no damage that knocks everyone you hit prone? Also an encounter disarm attack (utility?). Shift (speed) out of harm move utility. Later get a climb utility at-will to bounce from side to side up walls. Sort of a Martial Controller: not much damage, but lots of conditions. Good luck in your pursuit of the Gentle Way. Do you want a Real martial artist, or a movie-fluff martial artist? Butt-kicker, or spiritual guardian? Lo-Wang or Qui-chin Kane? Bruce Lee, Mr Miagi, or Jackie Chan?
#3 bathedinshadows May 16, 2012 3:52:01	Attacks: Saved
#4 bathedinshadows May 16, 2012 3:52:26	Utilities: Saved:
#5 bathedinshadows May 16, 2012 3:52:52	Feats: Saved
#6 bathedinshadows May 16, 2012 3:53:18	Other: Saved:
#7 bathedinshadows May 16, 2012 4:01:20	Have you looked at the Monk character? That is pretty much D&D's attempt to cover Martial Arts. Grappling mechanics have long been the bane of RPGs. Other than that, how about an at-will that grabs&prones targets (grapple and pin attack), or slides & save or prone (the shoulder throw). Encounter power is a throw that prones and dazes (hard throw). Or an encounter that lets you shift your speed and make a basic attack for no damage that knocks everyone you hit prone? Also an encounter disarm attack (utility?). Shift (speed) out of harm move utility. Later get a climb utility at-will to bounce from side to side up walls. Sort of a Martial Controller: not much damage, but lots of conditions. Good luck in your pursuit of the Gentle Way. Do you want a Real martial artist, or a movie-fluff martial artist? Butt-kicker, or spiritual guardian? Lo-Wang or Qui-chin Kane? Bruce Lee, Mr Miagi, or Jackie Chan? Thanks for your support will be getting onto it straight away as I want to see how far I can make this work. I will be looking at using the Monk as the base class and then developing a way from that forward. Basically I like the ground and pound idea and although some things you fight aren't as easy to grasp that would be displayed by their defences not by me going, oh a cube of glob I can't attack that. as has been mentioned when I put this idea forward before. Thanks
#8 WhisperMagellan May 16, 2012 4:06:18	If you are really going to build the class from scratch, look at the classes that have already been built, and pirate from them. No sense re-inventing the wheel. I build a lot of custom monsters, but whenever possible I use a stock one as a base. Take a look at the fighter (brawler build) as well. Again, where to look depends on the flavor you want. Oh, and that doesn't even mention the 4th or 4E foundation you want.
#9 bathedinshadows May 16, 2012 4:22:09	See that is where I get a little lost 4th vs 4e but I am going for 4e. I am working with the Brawler build now to get as close as I can to what I want but I like the Monk as a base line class and then Judoka as a pathway. Although it will be its own class in my mind it would greatly help me to have that base part done. Monks already have Unarmored Defense to start with and use Dex which is my idea for a base stat as well, although I am tossing up two pathways fromt here either kicker being Wisdom or Strength (the battle of muscle vs mind which is better) I suppose this will take me while but it is fun to try this and will give me a better understanding of game mechanics anyway. the thing is this is my first adventure in about 3 years when I haven't been the dm so I want something that is mine... I suppose it is ego but hey I want something I haven't seen yet.
#10 svendj May 16, 2012 5:30:41	My first piece of advice would be not to make the powers overly complicated. Just push + prone is enough to simulate a throw. A grab + prone with a Sustain Standard effect simulates the arm bar. Although it's more realistic, the powers get way more confusing when you hang bells and whistles on them like "push half the squares they have travelled to charge you". Second would be to take a look at your earlier thread in CharOp, where I've posted some Fighter powers that simulate martial arts perfectly. You should probably put the Brawler Style class features onto a Monk chassis to make it all work out mechanically. Also ask your DM to let you qualify for Brawler Fighter feats like Inescapable Hold and Pin down. Good luck! It's easiest for us to give you feedback if you present the whole package at once, instead of piecemeal.