Just an idea. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Just an idea.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jobies201
Jun 25, 2009 15:59:22 Is it possible to play a campaign with the PCs taking on the role of dragons? I'm considering doing sort of a reversed roles campaign (PCs are evil monsters raiding, they attack towns, loot castles, etc.).

Do you think it would be possible to make a dragon character?
#2
pluisjen
Jun 25, 2009 16:01:34 Dragonborn?

Actual dragons... they are not meant for players and pretty much lack the options to become interesting characters mechanically; they can't really take classes or anything.
#3
jobies201
Jun 25, 2009 16:53:24 I know that Dragonborns are an option. But, I'd rather it be full out dragons. I know you can play as certain monster races, I'm just trying to figure out a way to develop dragons as a playable race.

And for classes, they would of course be limited to just a few. Mostly martial power things, replacing weapons with claws, etc.
#4
amthyst_fire
Jun 25, 2009 16:55:41 Possible. Yes.

Good Idea? Depends on your players.
#5
robotgilgamesh
Jun 25, 2009 17:40:40 You could write up different combined class/race rules for each colour, (Brutes and skirmishers as strikers, soldiers as defenders ect.) But it would be a lot of work. You could get your players to help, by asking what sorts of powers they would like at each level, and balancing them appropriately. So long as you aren't playing with munchkins this could work out smoothly.
#6
jobies201
Jun 25, 2009 19:45:33 It should be noted we play a normal campaign besides this where the players have established characters and an ongoing plot. This would just replace our normal Thursday night game with something fun and different, so they are not looking for crazy optimization and all that with the characters. They just want the option of being a dragon.
#7
jobies201
Jun 25, 2009 19:46:58 I'm thinking if I do it I'll make it a sort of "races = class" game. As in, they aren't going to be Dragon Rogues but Black Dragons, Red Dragons, etc. And then just assign the different colors to roles, as I believe RobotGilgamesh is suggesting.
#8
pluisjen
Jun 26, 2009 1:12:48 Hm. Well if it's for roleplaying and you wouldn't mind buying an extra book... try buying Mutants and Masterminds; it doesn't have race or class so you can easily create a Dragon with it and you'll even have total control over everything it does.

It's a very open system, works much like 3.5e, with a few improvements, easy to get into and it's perfect for running weird PC's reliably.

Probably quicker to learn that (if you've played 3.5e, doubly so) and I think it'd be more fun too.
#9
jobies201
Jun 26, 2009 5:10:35
Hm. Well if it's for roleplaying and you wouldn't mind buying an extra book... try buying Mutants and Masterminds; it doesn't have race or class so you can easily create a Dragon with it and you'll even have total control over everything it does.

It's a very open system, works much like 3.5e, with a few improvements, easy to get into and it's perfect for running weird PC's reliably.

Probably quicker to learn that (if you've played 3.5e, doubly so) and I think it'd be more fun too.

Which books would I need out of that? I typed it in to Amazon and a plethora of results came up. Thanks.
#10
pluisjen
Jun 26, 2009 5:41:14 http://www.amazon.com/Mutants-Masterminds-RPG-Steve-Kenson/dp/1932442529/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246012751&sr=8-1

This one. 2nd edition base manual should cover everything you need, both from a player's as a DM's side.

It's designed for super hero play, which makes it really flexible, but it also makes an even greater distinction then 4e does between Fluff and Crunch.
#11
jobies201
Jun 26, 2009 8:30:04 Ok, I found the book but I don't quite understand the mechanics. If there are no hit points, how does combat work? There seems to be no threat then, if there are no hit points.
#12
pluisjen
Jun 26, 2009 9:30:14 Hit points are swapped with a Toughness Save. Whenever you get hit by an attack (the opponent rolls an attack and it beats your AC / Fort / Ref / Will ) then your character must make a saving throw against the hit. You roll a Toughness save against the DC of the attack.

If you make the save, you shrug off the attack, no damage done.
If you fail by a few points, you get a wound. This wound gives you a penalty on other Toughness saves. If you fail by a bunch, you get staggered or stunned for a round. If you fail massively; you go KO.
Each wound reduces your chance of going down on the next hit, so you can usually take a few blows, but a massive skull cracker can take out anyone; even on the first hit.
(Of course; heroes have action points for a reroll to avoid the instant knockdown)
The game also features minions, who go down on any failed save, period.

It makes the game both exciting and easier to track; barely any math required.
#13
jobies201
Jun 26, 2009 10:15:35 Yeah, it's pretty sweet. I just played around with it and made a character. I mean, the fantasy side of me is still sticking to D&D but I see crazy potential with this game.

How exactly would one make a dragon character though? Shifting powers?
#14
pluisjen
Jun 26, 2009 10:24:31 Growth power to bump them to Large or Huge.

Blast power, Cone shaped, with an elemental something for their breath weapon.

A few ranks in Immunity to remove penalties for Aging and their own element.

High bonusses in Armor, possibly even with a few ranks of Impenetrable or whatever it was called.
High level Strike power to simulate natural weapons.

Flight power, of course.

High stats all around; non-Power.

Probably a rank in Extra Appendages to give them a prehensile tail.

You don't need to shift shape or anything; just make all or most of the powers Innate and you are a real Dragon.

Check out the section with example monsters and villains; it might even have an example for a Dragon Monster; you could start off with that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jobies201 Jun 25, 2009 15:59:22	Is it possible to play a campaign with the PCs taking on the role of dragons? I'm considering doing sort of a reversed roles campaign (PCs are evil monsters raiding, they attack towns, loot castles, etc.). Do you think it would be possible to make a dragon character?
#2 pluisjen Jun 25, 2009 16:01:34	Dragonborn? Actual dragons... they are not meant for players and pretty much lack the options to become interesting characters mechanically; they can't really take classes or anything.
#3 jobies201 Jun 25, 2009 16:53:24	I know that Dragonborns are an option. But, I'd rather it be full out dragons. I know you can play as certain monster races, I'm just trying to figure out a way to develop dragons as a playable race. And for classes, they would of course be limited to just a few. Mostly martial power things, replacing weapons with claws, etc.
#4 amthyst_fire Jun 25, 2009 16:55:41	Possible. Yes. Good Idea? Depends on your players.
#5 robotgilgamesh Jun 25, 2009 17:40:40	You could write up different combined class/race rules for each colour, (Brutes and skirmishers as strikers, soldiers as defenders ect.) But it would be a lot of work. You could get your players to help, by asking what sorts of powers they would like at each level, and balancing them appropriately. So long as you aren't playing with munchkins this could work out smoothly.
#6 jobies201 Jun 25, 2009 19:45:33	It should be noted we play a normal campaign besides this where the players have established characters and an ongoing plot. This would just replace our normal Thursday night game with something fun and different, so they are not looking for crazy optimization and all that with the characters. They just want the option of being a dragon.
#7 jobies201 Jun 25, 2009 19:46:58	I'm thinking if I do it I'll make it a sort of "races = class" game. As in, they aren't going to be Dragon Rogues but Black Dragons, Red Dragons, etc. And then just assign the different colors to roles, as I believe RobotGilgamesh is suggesting.
#8 pluisjen Jun 26, 2009 1:12:48	Hm. Well if it's for roleplaying and you wouldn't mind buying an extra book... try buying Mutants and Masterminds; it doesn't have race or class so you can easily create a Dragon with it and you'll even have total control over everything it does. It's a very open system, works much like 3.5e, with a few improvements, easy to get into and it's perfect for running weird PC's reliably. Probably quicker to learn that (if you've played 3.5e, doubly so) and I think it'd be more fun too.
#9 jobies201 Jun 26, 2009 5:10:35	Hm. Well if it's for roleplaying and you wouldn't mind buying an extra book... try buying Mutants and Masterminds; it doesn't have race or class so you can easily create a Dragon with it and you'll even have total control over everything it does. It's a very open system, works much like 3.5e, with a few improvements, easy to get into and it's perfect for running weird PC's reliably. Probably quicker to learn that (if you've played 3.5e, doubly so) and I think it'd be more fun too. Which books would I need out of that? I typed it in to Amazon and a plethora of results came up. Thanks.
#10 pluisjen Jun 26, 2009 5:41:14	http://www.amazon.com/Mutants-Masterminds-RPG-Steve-Kenson/dp/1932442529/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246012751&sr=8-1 This one. 2nd edition base manual should cover everything you need, both from a player's as a DM's side. It's designed for super hero play, which makes it really flexible, but it also makes an even greater distinction then 4e does between Fluff and Crunch.
#11 jobies201 Jun 26, 2009 8:30:04	Ok, I found the book but I don't quite understand the mechanics. If there are no hit points, how does combat work? There seems to be no threat then, if there are no hit points.
#12 pluisjen Jun 26, 2009 9:30:14	Hit points are swapped with a Toughness Save. Whenever you get hit by an attack (the opponent rolls an attack and it beats your AC / Fort / Ref / Will ) then your character must make a saving throw against the hit. You roll a Toughness save against the DC of the attack. If you make the save, you shrug off the attack, no damage done. If you fail by a few points, you get a wound. This wound gives you a penalty on other Toughness saves. If you fail by a bunch, you get staggered or stunned for a round. If you fail massively; you go KO. Each wound reduces your chance of going down on the next hit, so you can usually take a few blows, but a massive skull cracker can take out anyone; even on the first hit. (Of course; heroes have action points for a reroll to avoid the instant knockdown) The game also features minions, who go down on any failed save, period. It makes the game both exciting and easier to track; barely any math required.
#13 jobies201 Jun 26, 2009 10:15:35	Yeah, it's pretty sweet. I just played around with it and made a character. I mean, the fantasy side of me is still sticking to D&D but I see crazy potential with this game. How exactly would one make a dragon character though? Shifting powers?
#14 pluisjen Jun 26, 2009 10:24:31	Growth power to bump them to Large or Huge. Blast power, Cone shaped, with an elemental something for their breath weapon. A few ranks in Immunity to remove penalties for Aging and their own element. High bonusses in Armor, possibly even with a few ranks of Impenetrable or whatever it was called. High level Strike power to simulate natural weapons. Flight power, of course. High stats all around; non-Power. Probably a rank in Extra Appendages to give them a prehensile tail. You don't need to shift shape or anything; just make all or most of the powers Innate and you are a real Dragon. Check out the section with example monsters and villains; it might even have an example for a Dragon Monster; you could start off with that.